L10 - Speed - uh no...

I upgraded immediately when I got home from work. I was excited and hopeful for the speed bump. I have Mac mini Intel i7 with 16 GB RAM and lots of HD Space... I waited and let it completely index. But, L10 runs noticeably slower than L9. I have seen a few more beachballs, too.

But, maybe with an incremental update it will get better.

Thanks for the other new features.

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JT (alabama24)

I have Mac mini Intel i7

That isn't where the speed comes from which was advertised. The speed comes from Logos taking advantage of Apple Silicon and running the program natively. This would have to be a Mac Mini running on an M1 or M2 chipset.

Kiyah

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1228034#Comment_1228034

I have Mac mini Intel i7

That isn't where the speed comes from which was advertised. The speed comes from Logos taking advantage of Apple Silicon and running the program natively. This would have to be a Mac Mini running on an M1 or M2 chipset.

They said it was faster. They didn't just say it was faster only for Apple Silicon.

I'm not seeing that it's slower for me, but I'm not seeing that it's faster either. (Windows 10, 6th gen Intel i5 processor, 8GB Ram).

The indexing does seem a little faster, but overall the program doesn't feel slower or faster for me.

SineNomine

If you have a hard drive, the single best thing you can do to speed up Logos/Verbum is to replace it with an SSD. This has been true for some years now.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1228035#Comment_1228035

I can't comment on other devices, especially windows. Top to bottom, it is much faster on Apple Silicon.

Lankford Oxendine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1228039#Comment_1228039

Logos 10 flys on my 14" M1 Max. I was wondering about the speed improvements on intel. Thanks for the info.

Nathan Parker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1228045#Comment_1228045

L10 is optimized for Apple Silicon Macs, but with the improved .NET/Mono performance, it should be optimized for everyone. So there might be some adjustments that need to be made in an update for Intel Macs.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1228055#Comment_1228055

L10 is optimized for Apple Silicon Macs, but with the improved .NET/Mono performance, it should be optimized for everyone. So there might be some adjustments that need to be made in an update for Intel Macs.

Don't think so. Today I rebuilt a large layout that loaded on L10, slower than on L9. Apple Silicon. MBP M1 chip.

First, I slowly chopped pieces of it out to watch the performance (many restarts). Finally down to 1 window and maybe 30-40 resources it was still dragging. Dragging means slower than my L7. Then I reindexed (just in case).

Next I started all over from scratch .... adding resources and watching the load time with restarts. I ended up with the same poor performance. And the slowdown appears to be mathematically incremental, as panels are added. My guess new features per resource panel is not optimized.

After loading, it's speedy.

Lesson: smaller layouts. Or use L7.

Unsichtbar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1228073#Comment_1228073

Win11 - Starting Logos, PC (I9 12900KF, 64GB RAM, SSD) slows down like it's a PC from the 90ties until I can stop the indexing (standing at 0% all the time - update: nope, it does it always, after about 30mins Logos and the PC get usable again). Checked with process monitor (sysinternals tool), I think it's really indexing (maybe not, LogosIndexer is below 5% CPU, Logos.exe is eating up all CPU power crawling through the resource files) running through the resource files. This has never been such a CPU-problem.

I think there is something wrong with the first build. Waiting for a fix.

But as nearly everybody seems to be happy, the problem probably is, like always, on my side. Just have to be patient I'll guess.

I can't use my PC (even the mouse cursor is stuttering, something that never happened during the last few years) until I kill the process for Logos.

James Taylor

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1228043#Comment_1228043

especially windows.

well, It absolutely crawls now on Windows.

Abram K-J

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1228187#Comment_1228187

Every new major update (at least since L4, which is as far back as I go) has been advertised as “faster.” And, well…

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1228187#Comment_1228187

especially windows.

well, It absolutely crawls now on Windows.

Don't know whats different with me and such.... but L10 on my windows 11 is smashing! Indexing, searches, etc. are quick. Love it!!

11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-1165G7 @ 2.80GHz 2.80 GHz with 12.0 GB ram and 1 tb ssd.

I think the ssd is a big key to a fast machine. Between HHD and SSD there is a huge difference in speed.

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1228145#Comment_1228145

Win11 - Starting Logos, PC (I9 12900KF, 64GB RAM, SSD) slows down like it's a PC from the 90ties

You supplied logs in your other thread about that and probably we should have that discussion over there, but it seems some things going on in your probably very complex layout, especially with the Visual Filters. It seems that the automated search syntax conversion from L4-9 to L10 style of some of the VFs breaks down - it could be this or some other things. Maybe more experienced log readers can go to specifics. Maybe you need to rebuild some FVs - an idea to test this out would be to run the VFs only against a small portion of bible text rather than all across several bibles.

James Taylor

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1228212#Comment_1228212

I do have a fast machine, the same layouts were snappy for me in Logos 9. I did notice a speed increase in other places, my negative experience seems to only be limited to old layouts with many resources. And as I noted in another place, it seems to be only bogged down on the initial time that I open each old layout. When I re-opened them, they all seem much more responsive and open up quickly

Kevin A. Purcell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1228035#Comment_1228035

They said it was faster. They didn't just say it was faster only for Apple Silicon.

Actually, all of the speed they promoted was clearly for M1. I have not seen any promotions that say it is for older Intel macs. I know that doesn't make you feel any better. If you're disappointed, I'm sure they will refund your upgrade if you call in.

Fr Devin Roza

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1228317#Comment_1228317

Actually, all of the speed they promoted was clearly for M1. I have not seen any promotions that say it is for older Intel macs. I know that doesn't make you feel any better. If you're disappointed, I'm sure they will refund your upgrade if you call in.

At least for my (newer) AMD processor, I definitely noticed the difference. I found v10 noticeably faster than v9, and would now describe it as snappy and fast for the first time ever.

I would recommend those having trouble with specific layouts (which sounds like the case here) to upload the logs of those layouts opening up. As NB.Mick mentioned, it might just be a problem with the conversion of one of the Visual Filters to the new search syntax or something like that.

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1228317#Comment_1228317

Actually, all of the speed they promoted was clearly for M1. I have not seen any promotions that say it is for older Intel macs.

This thread is not M1-specific: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/210355.aspx

FrMoses

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1228317#Comment_1228317

Greetings,

My understanding of the promotional materials for Logos 10 is that it is generally faster on all systems, but Apple Silicone users will see the biggest leap in speed, because (1) this is the first native version of Logos that runs without using Apple’s Rosetta technology and (2) Apple Silicone chips really are much faster and more efficient than most common Intel/AMD chips. Yes, I am sure there is an Intel chip somewhere that can run circles around an Apple chip in the right context, but for most users of common desktop and laptop computers, Apple Silicone chips are known to be quite fast and efficient.

I upgraded to Logos 10 on two of my machines. The first, a 16" MacBook Pro with Apple M1 Max and 32 GB, ran Logos so quickly that I was genuinely surprised. It's lightning fast. The second, a 16-core Xeon Mac Pro with 384 GB of RAM, is nowhere nearly as quick as the MacBook Pro even though it is a beast of a machine with lots of power and memory. It felt a little faster than Logos 9, but nothing like the Apple Silicone machine.

I wish you all the best and hope your issues with the software are resolved soon.

Bill Cook

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1228317#Comment_1228317

Actually, all of the speed they promoted was clearly for M1. I have not seen any promotions that say it is for older Intel macs. I know that doesn't make you feel any better. If you're disappointed, I'm sure they will refund your upgrade if you call in.

This is where I got my evidently erroneous information. I missed where it said for M1 only...

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1228425#Comment_1228425

Going off of reports in other threads, the slowdown may be due to Visual Filters affected by the new, simpler Search Syntax.

Kiyah

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1228425#Comment_1228425

Actually, all of the speed they promoted was clearly for M1. I have not seen any promotions that say it is for older Intel macs. I know that doesn't make you feel any better. If you're disappointed, I'm sure they will refund your upgrade if you call in.

This is where I got my evidently erroneous information. I missed where it said for M1 only...

Not to mention they said it in the email they sent me and in the Live launch event. They said it was faster than ever. They didn't say, it will only be faster for Apple Silicon users. I took it as meaning it would be faster for everyone INCLUDING Apple Silicon users, as the ad above suggests.

But at least the indexer is a little faster and the program is not slower for me.

But Logos has been made faster in the past (Logos 8) and then slowed back down (Logos 9). Let's hope faster stays faster.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1228505#Comment_1228505

I can't comment on i7, I have an M1 mac, and a Ryzen 7 pc, and on both its remarkably faster.

Index times are just a little shy of HALF of what they were with L9 on my M1.

I didn't do a full reindex on my pc before upgrading. But it feels noticeably faster.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1228552#Comment_1228552

Actually, all of the speed they promoted was clearly for M1. I have not seen any promotions that say it is for older Intel macs. I know that doesn't make you feel any better. If you're disappointed, I'm sure they will refund your upgrade if you call in.

This is where I got my evidently erroneous information. I missed where it said for M1 only...

Not to mention they said it in the email they sent me and in the Live launch event. They said it was faster than ever. They didn't say, it will only be faster for Apple Silicon users. It took it as meaning it would be faster for everyone INCLUDING Apple Silicon users, as the ad above suggests.

But at least the indexer is a little faster and the program is not slower for me.

But Logos has been made faster in the past (Logos 8) and then slowed back down (Logos 9). Let's hope faster stays faster.

IIRC the official figure was about 15% faster.

It might be due to your visual filter settings. Suggest tinkering with those.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1228224#Comment_1228224

It seems that the automated search syntax conversion from L4-9 to L10 style of some of the VFs breaks down - it could be this or some other things.

Well, thank you, NB. I tried that out, and got incremental speed improvements, with each VF removed. I went from a 2 min load (excruciating) to a 1 min load (comparable to L9), to maybe 45 secs. Opening individual resources (wiith a large layout) remains less than satisfactory.

I still think some of their factbook/translate functions per panel has load problems. Today on one of my monographs open, the translate paragraph indicater was showing, even though the translate panel was closed, no internet, and I've never used translate. Indeed, I wondered what it was, and opening the panel, a translation was there (english to english).

Frank Sauer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1228555#Comment_1228555

I have noticed the speed improvement on my Win 11 laptop that is only a year or two old and even on my Generation 4 Intel laptop that I run Linux on. The indexing is substantially faster on both machines, as is overall performance since the update to .NET6

Bob

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1228505#Comment_1228505

Logos 10 so far runs much faster on my Windows 10. I was getting frustrated with Logos 9, but Logos 10 is better for me.

Bob

Kiyah

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1228563#Comment_1228563

Logos 10 so far runs much faster on my Windows 10. I was getting frustrated with Logos 9, but Logos 10 is better for me.

Bob

Glad it's better for some on Windows 10. What are your specs?

Andrew Biddinger

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1228563#Comment_1228563

Logos 10 so far runs much faster on my Windows 10. I was getting frustrated with Logos 9, but Logos 10 is better for me.

Bob

Most everything in the Desktop app is noticeably faster for me on my Windows computer (Opening tools, opening resources, searching..etc) I do have a SSD, though.

Processor 11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-1185G7 @ 3.00GHz 3.00 GHz
Installed RAM 16.0 GB (15.8 GB usable)
System type 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
Pen and touch Pen and touch support with 10 touch points

Bob

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1228614#Comment_1228614

Glad it's better for some on Windows 10. What are your specs?

I have HP Laptop

Intel i7@2.50Ghz

32GB RAM

500GB SSD

So far, not as frustrated as before with L9 and slowness. Pleased so far.

Bob

Rodney Lake

I have a MacBook Pro 2020 16gb ram and 10th gen Intel Core i5 and its pretty snappy overall on my device. It's definitely faster than L9 for me.

GregW

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1228614#Comment_1228614

Glad it's better for some on Windows 10. What are your specs?

I’ve just changed to an 11th generation i7 with 16GB RAM and a 1TB SSD running Widows 11 and the difference was remarkable before L10. L10 has noticeably improved it further. I looked at the Logos recommended hardware specs before getting a new laptop which I hadn’t done previously and paid the price for! I think that the spec level needed to run Logos well means that people who don’t check the hardware recommendations and try running it on a lower-spec machine are set up for disappointment right at the outset.

Kiyah

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1228722#Comment_1228722

I’ve just changed to an 11th generation i7 with 16GB RAM and a 1TB SSD running Widows 11 and the difference was remarkable before L10. L10 has noticeably improved it further.

I've been waiting to be able to afford to get a new computer, just not there yet. Do you have an i7 laptop or desktop? I keep reading that getting an i7 on a laptop is a waste of money because the processor overheats and slows down in a smaller form factor. I'm definitely getting a bigger hard drive and more RAM, but I may not be able to afford an i7, so I'll likely stick with the i5.

GregW

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1233106#Comment_1233106

I've been waiting to be able to afford to get a new computer, just not there yet. Do you have an i7 laptop or desktop? I keep reading that getting an i7 on a laptop is a waste of money because the processor overheats and slows down in a smaller form factor. I'm definitely getting a bigger hard drive and more RAM, but I may not be able to afford an i7, so I'll likely stick with the i5.

I've got it on an HP laptop and am having no problems with overheating or the processor slowing down.

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1233106#Comment_1233106

I’ve just changed to an 11th generation i7 with 16GB RAM and a 1TB SSD running Widows 11 and the difference was remarkable before L10. L10 has noticeably improved it further.

I've been waiting to be able to afford to get a new computer, just not there yet. Do you have an i7 laptop or desktop? I keep reading that getting an i7 on a laptop is a waste of money because the processor overheats and slows down in a smaller form factor. I'm definitely getting a bigger hard drive and more RAM, but I may not be able to afford an i7, so I'll likely stick with the i5.

I have 11th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-1165G7 @ 2.80GHz 2.80 GHz. It is a Lenovo with 12 GB ram and ssd ... I went with it because at the time, the price was (I thought) fantastic. But....I have no regrets. I have seen a slow down when I have a background running which I am compiling a C++ program in the background... and streaming a video at the same time while searching in Logos... That's pretty demanding of resources on the Lenovo.... but even then... that only last for a very short time. I was concerned about the 12 GB ram not being enough.... but for me, it has actually worked out great!

The Speed of L10 when not doing all the above is better than L9. And muchly appreciated.

If you haven't bought a computer yet.... and unless your some NASA Physics Engineer or something... you probably can get a great deal on the Lenovo Yoga laptop during this time of the year. I would watch the sales particularly nearer Christmas or even 1st of the year.

Kiyah

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1233229#Comment_1233229

If you haven't bought a computer yet.... and unless your some NASA Physics Engineer or something... you probably can get a great deal on the Lenovo Yoga laptop during this time of the year. I would watch the sales particularly nearer Christmas or even 1st of the year.

I am currently using a Lenovo Yoga laptop and definitely would like the latest version of the same type of laptop, just with more RAM and a bigger SSD.

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1233106#Comment_1233106

I keep reading that getting an i7 on a laptop is a waste of money because the processor overheats and slows down in a smaller form factor. I'm definitely getting a bigger hard drive and more RAM, but I may not be able to afford an i7, so I'll likely stick with the i5.

Overheating is likely going to depend more on the specific model you get than whether it's an i5 or an i7. But less expensive laptops with i7s are probably more likely to overheat.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1233108#Comment_1233108

I keep reading that getting an i7 on a laptop is a waste of money because the processor overheats and slows down in a smaller form factor. I'm definitely getting a bigger hard drive and more RAM, but I may not be able to afford an i7, so I'll likely stick with the i5.

The difference between consumer i5 and i7 has narrowed over recent releases and old perceptions have to be adjusted as an i5 can run hot, can have as many cores, and isn't necessarily the second choice because it is cheaper. The specs of each, especially their Thermal Design Power (TDP) can tell you if they would run "hot" e.g. a TDP of 45W could run hot in a laptop (and should not be considered in a more compact, ultra-slim computer). A TDP of 65W and higher is for a desktop with a large case, multiple fans and possibly liquid cooling!

Even so, some laptop manufacturers compromise on cooling for TDP's around 25W, so look for reviews before buying.

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1233518#Comment_1233518

Can't speak about what I don't know.... but my I7 Lenovo Yoga.... I have definitely put it through the mill so to speak... has been always cool to the touch... I would buy again if I was in the market. As to the ram.... It's always been difficult for me to pin point how much ram I need. My theory used to be to "buy as much ram as you can and as big a ssd as you could... the latest and greatest so to speak...". I bought this Lenovo Yoga with 12 GB ram. and ssd .. mainly because of the "WOW" price...and I have been very satisfied with it.... which now causes me to wonder.... can a person "over engineer" which leads to "over cost" when they buy a computer? And at this juncture... I'm a thinking "Yes".

In today's world of computers.... definitely one needs a ssd ... and then I guess as much ram as you feel you need. (Don't buy for bragging rights!). But for me, if I was buying now... I would buy the latest processor I could and definitely a ssd and minimum of 12 GB ram.... just because it will last longer... Just saying... But then again.... not everyone is like me... lol ...