Comment Re:Logos 10
Thank you for Logos 10. I updated all the feature sets per my usual procedure and will be updating my various libraries to 10 Silver as finances permit.
One comment and then I promise to keep my big trap shut as so many of my friends have suggested. Perhaps it's my age (84), but I'd really like to see very narrow vertical and horizontal lines on my page separating the various boxes and columns. Sometimes I find myself getting lost thinking my cursor is in my Bible when It's not, etcetera.
That's it. God bless.
Gerry
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Perhaps it's my age (84), but I'd really like to see very narrow vertical and horizontal lines on my page separating the various boxes and columns. Sometimes I find myself getting lost thinking my cursor is in my Bible when It's not, etcetera.
Indeed ... In L9, the panels and toolbar had a darker border line which seems to be missing in L10. This lack does make it quite a bit harder to recognize different panels and can more easily cause such "troubles" as you describe.
I pray, this point ("bug") in the UI design will be adjusted soon in an update.
Wolfgang Schneider
(BibelCenter)
Hi Gerald:
I sympathize. I'm a couple of decades behind you, but with significant vision impairments. I'm afraid we're stuck with inexplicable User Interface fads for the duration. I'm not sure who the target audience for all this silliness is, but it doesn't include you and me. Logos is among the least offensive programs in that respect than many others I deal with, so I'm thankful for that.
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
Well, it's been over a week now and nothing from Logos regarding this problem.
Gerry, I wouldn't read too much into 'a whole week' ... they've been trying to respond to various problems ... product sales, a few bugs, etc
But I think your point is good ... I doubt you're in the minority. But it's unlikely to be fixed. They're very much into pretty displays, and try to 'grey' anything that can be grey'd. Hide anything that can be hidden. They like 'Easter eggs' as a UI principle. Ironically, their primary market, if surveys are to be believed, is an older 'greying' customer base.
And at least on my M1 Mac, the 'mouse' doesn't line up with their scroll bars quite right. So, it goes with the cutesy.
I hate to appear impatient, but here's what I'm dealing with. I never had this problem with Logos before 10 was released.
Hmmmm, when I post my screen shot here it doesn't seem to be a problem. However on my computer, the gray areas aren't there!!
If the problem doesn't occur with the screenshot, it's likely to be a problem caused by your Windows color profile or gamma settings.
You may find that calibrating your monitor will help you.
Mark,
You may find that calibrating your monitor will help you.
Mark,
what does this problem have to do with monitor calibrating, computer setup, etc ???
One comment and then I promise to keep my big trap shut as so many of my friends have suggested. Perhaps it's my age (84), but I'd really like to see very narrow vertical and horizontal lines on my page separating the various boxes and columns. Sometimes I find myself getting lost thinking my cursor is in my Bible when It's not, etcetera.
The problem is overall a matter of lacking borders and contrast between backgrounds (such as grey areas) and panes, etc.
Is this not rather plainly a UI design problem? The 1px darker borders of panes, etc that provided a clear UI in L9 have been removed in L10? See my above post with screenshot from my L10 installation ... I have the very same problem, and I would think everyone else does too ... or can someone post a screenshot where panes, etc. have easily visible 1px borders?
The matter was actually raised before L10 release, and the comment at the time was that the final UI design would solve this ... now we see that it wasn't solved.
Wolfgang Schneider
(BibelCenter)
Gerry, here is one of the predefined layouts with border lines. Whether or not there is enough contrast depends on my eyes and my monitor settings. Where I have problems with contrast is with some of the preview/selection popups.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Gerry, here is one of the predefined layouts with border lines.
I would say that none of the panes or the tabs have a distinct border, there is a tiny bit of contrast between window background and panes so that a small free space between panes or tabs appears as a "border".
Whether or not there is enough contrast depends on my eyes and my monitor settings. ...
Sure ... strangely though, my eyes and my monitor got bad over night ?? While running L9, my eyes and my monitor were just fine. While running L9 and V10 beta alongside each other, my eyes and monitor switched from good to bad and back, etc. ???
Wolfgang Schneider
(BibelCenter)
I am in my 30's and I absolutely agree that L9 was better than L10 in this respect, so it's not just the older guys. 
Though I can see a slightly darker gray line when I look directly at it, it is still a lot harder to see and more frustrating to have to deal with than with L9. I have to look closely at it, as opposed to L9 where I didn't even have to think about it. It was just intuitive.
Sort of related. Last night, I was adjusting my little icons at the top menu. Right-clicked to see the choices. You can just barely see which icon is currently in use. Just barely. Now, (1) I know which is in use, and (2) no big deal (this example). But (3) what's the point of changing it?
'Why' does the designer bring the contrast down so far, as to place in question, why highlight it in the first place. I still argue, FL's lost its market-focus, relative to the UI. Artsy-playing.
"Where's Waldo":
it's been over a week now and nothing from Logos regarding this problem
Don't forget that these are peer-to-peer forums although after a new release we can count on significant FL participation. But if the same problem is reported on several threads, they don't always respond in every thread. And they will respond to crashes and incorrect results before they get to the cosmetic/usability/accessibility issues. I am a bit younger than you and my preference for contrast and lines is similar to yours. But we need to be patient for the noise to die down so our voices may be heard.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
I am confused. Although I am older than Gerald, I dee very clear definition between adjacent panels/windows on both my main display and the seconsey one. It this a difference between Windows and the Mac OS? Apple displays and others?
I am confused. Although I am older than Gerald, I dee very clear definition between adjacent panels/windows on both my main display and the seconsey one. It this a difference between Windows and the Mac OS? Apple displays and others?
Jack,
I would not call the areas in red from above screenshot as "clear definition between adjacent panels ... especially when compared to how this was designed in L9 (panel had a clear border, etc.)
Perhaps this is different from how it displays on your displays?
Wolfgang Schneider
(BibelCenter)
I do not know if there is a difference due to a variation between Windows or Mac OS. Perhaps it is just a misunderstanding of the problem. The gray color that separates the windows in the layout may be the same in both L9 and L10, but there is a distinct difference because L9 used a darker borderline between windows that made them easier to differentiate. This difference does not appear to have anything to do with monitor settings. Is there a way to toggle on this borderline?I
Above all these things, walk in love, which is the bond of perfection. - Colossians 3:14
I do not know if there is a difference due to a variation between Windows or Mac OS. Perhaps it is just a misunderstanding of the problem. The gray color that separates the windows in the layout may be the same in both L9 and L10, but there is a distinct difference because L9 used a darker borderline between windows that made them easier to differentiate. This difference does not appear to have anything to do with monitor settings. Is there a way to toggle on this borderline?
Above all these things, walk in love, which is the bond of perfection. - Colossians 3:14
I do not know if there is a difference due to a variation between Windows or Mac OS. Perhaps it is just a misunderstanding of the problem. The gray color that separates the windows in the layout may be the same in both L9 and L10, but there is a distinct difference because L9 used a darker borderline between windows that made them easier to differentiate. This difference does not appear to have anything to do with monitor settings. Is there a way to toggle on this borderline?
Above all these things, walk in love, which is the bond of perfection. - Colossians 3:14
... The gray color that separates the windows in the layout may be the same in both L9 and L10, but there is a distinct difference because L9 used a darker borderline between windows that made them easier to differentiate. This difference does not appear to have anything to do with monitor settings. Is there a way to toggle on this borderline?
This is exactly what some of us have been talking about ... unfortunately I do not have L9 on my PC anymore so I could not provide screenshot of the notable and distinct difference. For some reaason, in the email notification of your post, a screenshot was included which now seems to be missing here in the actual forum post ...
As far as I know, there is no possibility for users to toggle borderlines off or on...
Wolfgang Schneider
(BibelCenter)
Gerald --- Congratulations on living a long life! Hopefully God will bless me with such!
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!