Morph search help

Hi all.

I’m trying to do a morph search for all cases of anarthrous (indefinite) nouns in the New Testament. I also want to exclude all proper names.

This is the search query I have thus far:

morph.g:N NOT AFTER 1 WORD morph.g:D NOT morph.g:XP

My problem is that the search results still include some proper names and some words that have the article directly before them.

Because this is such a large search, I really need to be able to narrow this down as much as possible. I have tried a lot of things to exclude the names that still show up, but nothing has worked. I have no idea what to do about the words showing that still have the article.

Any help you can offer would be great!

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Graham Criddle

morph.g:N NOT AFTER 1 WORD morph.g:D NOT morph.g:XP

My problem is that the search results still include some proper names and some words that have the article directly before them.

Does (morph.g:D NOT BEFORE 1 WORDS morph.g:N) NOT morph.g:XP give you what you are looking for?

Brandon Black

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1236686#Comment_1236686

Edited below.

Graham, thanks for the quick response! That does provide *better* results (i.e., ~12k vs ~19k) but I'm still getting proper names and articulated nouns (e.g., Mt 1:11 - Jeconiah, a proper name; and brothers, articulated; both show up).

It looks like you just moved some things around. I'm not sure what the difference is between your formula and mine.

EDIT: Actually upon closer inspection it looks like it is not yielding any of the anarthrous nouns at all. Perhaps that is why there are less results?

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1236689#Comment_1236689

Hi Brandon

Graham, thanks for the quick response! That does provide *better* results (i.e., ~12k vs ~19k) but I'm still getting proper names and articulated nouns (e.g., Mt 1:11 - Jeconiah, a proper name; and brothers, articulated; both show up).

Apologies - my original response was totally wrong!

I can't see a way of combining the two morph terms - but it is possible to use LouwNida domains to identify proper nouns. They are in domain 93

So the search (morph.g:N NOT AFTER 1 WORDS morph.g:D) NOT louwnida:93 might give you what you want

It might also be worth trying changing the 1 WORDS to 2 WORDS to catch cases where the article isn't directly before the noun (such as in Matt 4:5 and it's reference to the holy city

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1236703#Comment_1236703

So the search (morph.g:N NOT AFTER 1 WORDS morph.g:D) NOT louwnida:93 might give you what you want

Sorry Graham, you have fallen into the trap of excluding good results because there is at least one bad result (LN 93) in a verse e.g. Mt 1:1,16, 17,18.

You need (morph.g:N NOT AFTER 1 WORDS morph.g:D) NOT INTERSECTS louwnida:93 i.e. where the anarthrous noun is not also a place or person.

(morph.g:N NOT AFTER 1 WORDS morph.g:D) NOT INTERSECTS (louwnida:93 OR louwnida:"53.66–53.95") will also exclude classes of persons e.g. Christ (Mt 1:16), scribes, prophets, chief priests.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1236735#Comment_1236735

Sorry Graham, you have fallen into the trap of excluding good results because there is at least one bad result (LN 93) in a verse e.g. Mt 1:1,16, 17,18.

Good point Dave, thanks

You need (morph.g:N NOT AFTER 1 WORDS morph.g:D) NOT INTERSECTS louwnida:93 i.e. where the anarthrous noun is not also a place or person.

Much better - appreciated.

Brandon Black

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1236735#Comment_1236735

I tried that and got ~17k results. It did get rid of the proper names, but it's still picking up articular nouns, like τοὺς ἀδελφοὺς αὐτοῦ in Mt 1:2.

I have only gone through the first dozen or so verses that came up in the results, but it seems that maybe it is turning up results when the construction is possessive.

In my grammar classes, the books/instructors have mentioned how a word can be definite even without the article. That being said, there is a certain term that I have noticed is nearly always definitized in translation, though it is only sometimes definitized in the Greek. I am trying to do a search to see if there are other terms that are written and translated similarly.

I really appreciate all the help you all have given me on this. I'll have to check out the LN domains a bit more to see how else I might be able to limit my results.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1236815#Comment_1236815

I tried that and got ~17k results. It did get rid of the proper names, but it's still picking up articular nouns, like τοὺς ἀδελφοὺς αὐτοῦ in Mt 1:2.

I'm seeing a lot fewer results than that (although still a lot!) and not getting a hit for Matt 1:2. What Bible are you running the search against? It's important to be using a Greek text for this

Brandon Black

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1236823#Comment_1236823

Okay. Part of my problem was that I was using English translations for the query. I didn't think it should matter, since they are all based on the Greek, I figured they would have the same results.

I just tried another Greek text, UBS5 and it yielded ~14k results, apparently ignoring the proper name restriction.

Brandon Black

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1236735#Comment_1236735

This is going to work out great for me considering the power of logos and their analysis feature. I have it ordered here by Strong's, but I can also sort it other ways and change what is presented. Check it out: (the picture isn't showing, but I'll figure it out)

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1236827#Comment_1236827

I didn't think it should matter, since they are all based on the Greek, I figured they would have the same results.

While they are based on the Greek text, the ordering of the words is different

Looking at the ESV for Matt 1:2 and τοὺς ἀδελφοὺς αὐτοῦ you can see that the τοὺς ἀδελφοὺς is translated as one English word and so the matching conditions don't apply

I just tried another Greek text, UBS5 and it yielded ~14k results, apparently ignoring the proper name restriction.

Yes - this is because, unfortunately, the UBS5 doesn't have LN tagging so that constraint isn't being actioned.

Do you have https://www.logos.com/product/8486/the-greek-new-testament-sbl-edition that does have the LN tagging?

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1236828#Comment_1236828

Check it out: (the picture isn't showing, but I'll figure it out)

Try using the paperclip icon in the forum editor.

Brandon Black

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1236830#Comment_1236830

Yes, I have it. Here is another attempt at inserting the screenshot.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1236876#Comment_1236876

Here is another attempt at inserting the screenshot.

That worked!