Where do I begin?

Simple question, but not so simple answer(s)??

We had a great dinner with some Jewish friends last night, and they asked, What are some of the differences between what you (as a Baptist believe) and the Jewish religion?

There was a lovely conversation (of course, the wine helped) and after they left, I wanted to know more about the Jewish faith. I have a very basic understanding of their faith. Stuff you learn in seminary and the odd mention in resources, but nothing substantive.

So, with all the resources available through FL, where does one start?

mm.

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MJ. Smith

I always recommend Torah Through Time | Logos Bible Software which comes out of the author's teaching at a Christian school. He is very good at making his points without using unfamiliar or stilted vocabulary.

One can never go wrong with Martin Buber who represents a distinct variety of Judaism. Hasidism Faithlife Ebooks is in Logos - not my favorite but . . .

Milkman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1236819#Comment_1236819

Fortunately, I have that resource.

I always recommend Torah Through Time | Logos Bible Software which comes out of the author's teaching at a Christian school. He is very good at making his points without using unfamiliar or stilted vocabulary.

Ted Weis

So, with all the resources available through FL, where does one start?

Michael Heiser in a podcast interview recommends this:

https://www.logos.com/product/182800/reading-moses-seeing-jesus-how-the-torah-fulfills-its-goal-in-yeshua

Messianic Jew Dr. Michael Brown has an excellent five volume series, which are the result of extensive conversations. Lots of details and depth:

https://www.logos.com/product/197372/answering-jewish-objections-to-jesus

Michael Kinch

You might want to take a look at one of the Jewish Studies Expansion Libraries. Here is the link to the XL Expansion Library. Logos 9 Jewish Studies Library Expansion, XL | Logos Bible Software

Batman

Very good. I do believe it is vital for Christians to know and understand the Hebrew faith.
Why?
Because we are NOT a separate religion. We are considered a heretic offspring of the Hebrew faith. We are grafted into the Hebrew faith, and all of God's promises to Abraham's decendants. As one pointed out, getting the Jewish Messianiac Logos Starter (minimum) is not a bad start. Work your way up as you can afford.
And MJ usually gives great helpful advice; so, what he says [:D]

Simple question, but not so simple answer(s)??

We had a great dinner with some Jewish friends last night, and they asked, What are some of the differences between what you (as a Baptist believe) and the Jewish religion?

There was a lovely conversation (of course, the wine helped) and after they left, I wanted to know more about the Jewish faith. I have a very basic understanding of their faith. Stuff you learn in seminary and the odd mention in resources, but nothing substantive.

So, with all the resources available through FL, where does one start?

mm.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1236847#Comment_1236847

what he says

she

Frank Hodges

Someone already mentioned the one I had in mind which is the "Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus" series by Michael Brown.

I'd check out the one MJ mentioned as well.

Additionally, you can search the JPS publications with this link Search Results | Logos Bible Software, where you'll find this JPS Guide to Jewish Traditions | Logos Bible Software. Full disclosure, this is an area I'm sorely lacking, so I may be leading you astray, maybe some other people will chime in. I think on Logos a good many of the resources available to us will have a bit of a messianic bias, or more accurately a "Jewish roots of Christianity" type of bias, but I'm sure there's good resources for what you're looking for.

Also, MJ did a tips post a few days back where she shared her shortcuts bar. If I recall correctly, which I probably don't considering it's me, there were a few external websites that were in a similar vein as to what you're asking about. It's probably worth it to check that post out.

One thing that may help is a follow-up question: are you looking for resources from the non-messianic Jewish perspective, or are you looking for resources that touch on how Judaism flows into Christianity? I ask because (and again, I can't stress this enough, I know next to nothing about all this) I've been under the impression that a lot has changed in Judaism since Christ, and many of these resources probably emphasize BC Judaism and not so much the developments after Christ. With that in mind, you may or may not have some luck with resources that are aimed at evangelizing Jewish friends, because I think those resources will probably have a lot of consideration towards modern Jewish thought. I say this because I have personal experience in this with Mormonism. If I talk to my Mormon family members about any inconsistencies in early Mormonism it typically falls on deaf ears or is met with extreme resistance, but if I talk about the state of the LDS Church today, I can usually have a more open dialogue. Which makes sense, the farther removed from the subject we are, the more room for misinterpretation there is.

Anyway, hope you find what you're looking for!

DMB

Simple question, but not so simple answer(s)??

.... where does one start?

Not answering your question, but 'we' (forum) have had this discussion before:

- The 'jews'? 'Jewish religion'? You can't even narrow it down during Jesus' day. Today? Pick an opinion.

- Unlike Christians, you're born Jewish. You already have the Promise. Multiple times.

- When John the Baptizer told the Jews to 'repent', of what?? Think about it.

Personally, you'd learn more, just asking your wine-friendly friends? Sound like great friends.

Milkman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1236898#Comment_1236898

Thanks and yes they are. "Great friends."

Simple question, but not so simple answer(s)??

.... where does one start?

Not answering your question, but 'we' (forum) have had this discussion before:

- The 'jews'? 'Jewish religion'? You can't even narrow it down during Jesus' day. Today? Pick an opinion.

- Unlike Christians, you're born Jewish. You already have the Promise. Multiple times.

- When John the Baptizer told the Jews to 'repent', of what?? Think about it.

Personally, you'd learn more, just asking your wine-friendly friends? Sound like great friends.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1236900#Comment_1236900

When I was a young adult with Jewish and Buddhist friends, "everyone" was reading Martin Buber, Gershom Scholem, and Elie Weisel. I wonder it there is a similar set of "must read" texts today.

Milkman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1236890#Comment_1236890

You make a good point about not showing inconsistencies. I never would do that. As Michael Jackson once said to Paul McCartney. "I'm a lover, not a fighter." [:D] So I'm a good Canadian boy with good manners.

Anyway. To your question. I'm looking for resources that will help me think like a Jewish person. I'm afraid I'm too Baptistic, evangelical and reformed. I realize I can't get Bavinck, Calvin or Beeke to quiet down at times. I need them to take a back seat, be still and bite their lips. They are a good foundation.

And, the older I get, the more open I am. Will I actually be able to think like a Jew? I don't know, but I'm willing to try and then leave the rest to the Holy Spirit.

I hope that helps.

mm.

Someone already mentioned the one I had in mind which is the "Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus" series by Michael Brown.

I'd check out the one MJ mentioned as well.

Additionally, you can search the JPS publications with this link Search Results | Logos Bible Software, where you'll find this JPS Guide to Jewish Traditions | Logos Bible Software. Full disclosure, this is an area I'm sorely lacking, so I may be leading you astray, maybe some other people will chime in. I think on Logos a good many of the resources available to us will have a bit of a messianic bias, or more accurately a "Jewish roots of Christianity" type of bias, but I'm sure there's good resources for what you're looking for.

Also, MJ did a tips post a few days back where she shared her shortcuts bar. If I recall correctly, which I probably don't considering it's me, there were a few external websites that were in a similar vein as to what you're asking about. It's probably worth it to check that post out.

One thing that may help is a follow-up question: are you looking for resources from the non-messianic Jewish perspective, or are you looking for resources that touch on how Judaism flows into Christianity? I ask because (and again, I can't stress this enough, I know next to nothing about all this) I've been under the impression that a lot has changed in Judaism since Christ, and many of these resources probably emphasize BC Judaism and not so much the developments after Christ. With that in mind, you may or may not have some luck with resources that are aimed at evangelizing Jewish friends, because I think those resources will probably have a lot of consideration towards modern Jewish thought. I say this because I have personal experience in this with Mormonism. If I talk to my Mormon family members about any inconsistencies in early Mormonism it typically falls on deaf ears or is met with extreme resistance, but if I talk about the state of the LDS Church today, I can usually have a more open dialogue. Which makes sense, the farther removed from the subject we are, the more room for misinterpretation there is.

Anyway, hope you find what you're looking for!

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1236903#Comment_1236903

You make a good point about not showing inconsistencies. I never would do that. As Michael Jackson once said to Paul McCartney. "I'm a lover, not a fighter." So I'm a good Canadian boy with good manners.

Anyway. To your question. I'm looking for resources that will help me think like a Jewish person. I'm afraid I'm too Baptistic, evangelical and reformed. I realize I can't get Bavinck, Calvin or Beeke to quiet down at times. I need them to take a back seat, be still and bite their lips. They are a good foundation.

And, the older I get, the more open I am. Will I actually be able to think like a Jew? I don't know, but I'm willing to try and then leave the rest to the Holy Spirit.

I hope that helps.

I wonder if there are any open courses taught by Jews for the Judaism-curious? Kind of like our Alpha program for the Christian-curious. Not that you're wanting to get yourself evangelized into converting to Judaism, but if you really want to learn how a Jew thinks, hearing it from them in a dialogical format where you can ask questions might be better than reading a book.

Some possibilities for free or cheap MOOCs on Judaism:

https://www.udemy.com/topic/Judaism

https://www.coursera.org/lecture/the-talmud/the-talmud-mooc-live-oXLAt

An interactive fully online Jewish synagogue:

https://simshalom.com/

And there's this "hub for Jewish learning":

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/

Also keep in mind that learning to "think like a Jew" is pretty impossible, because there are as many ways of thinking like a Jew as there are ways of thinking like a Christian, if not more. There's a wide spectrum of theological and cultural thought and practice in Judaism, from the ultra Orthodox Haredi (including Hasidic) Jews, to modern Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform Judaism (liberal/progressive) to Reconstructionist; there's Zionism, Kabbalist, and other streams. See a listing here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_religious_movements

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1236920#Comment_1236920

[An interactive fully online Jewish synagogue:

https://simshalom.com/

All great ideas.

The synogogue is especially good. We've been many times (community events) but also services. Very friendly and open. My hebrew was hopelessly abysmal, speeding along the reading. They smiled.

Milkman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1236920#Comment_1236920

Alpha course. Always reminds me of a pastor who led our church in Kamloops. Don (Judy) Harrison. Very good man.

You make a good point about not showing inconsistencies. I never would do that. As Michael Jackson once said to Paul McCartney. "I'm a lover, not a fighter." So I'm a good Canadian boy with good manners.

Anyway. To your question. I'm looking for resources that will help me think like a Jewish person. I'm afraid I'm too Baptistic, evangelical and reformed. I realize I can't get Bavinck, Calvin or Beeke to quiet down at times. I need them to take a back seat, be still and bite their lips. They are a good foundation.

And, the older I get, the more open I am. Will I actually be able to think like a Jew? I don't know, but I'm willing to try and then leave the rest to the Holy Spirit.

I hope that helps.

I wonder if there are any open courses taught by Jews for the Judaism-curious? Kind of like our Alpha program for the Christian-curious. Not that you're wanting to get yourself evangelized into converting to Judaism, but if you really want to learn how a Jew thinks, hearing it from them in a dialogical format where you can ask questions might be better than reading a book.

Some possibilities for free or cheap MOOCs on Judaism:

https://www.udemy.com/topic/Judaism

https://www.coursera.org/lecture/the-talmud/the-talmud-mooc-live-oXLAt

An interactive fully online Jewish synagogue:

https://simshalom.com/

And there's this "hub for Jewish learning":

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/

Also keep in mind that learning to "think like a Jew" is pretty impossible, because there are as many ways of thinking like a Jew as there are ways of thinking like a Christian, if not more. There's a wide spectrum of theological and cultural thought and practice in Judaism, from the ultra Orthodox Haredi (including Hasidic) Jews, to modern Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform Judaism (liberal/progressive) to Reconstructionist; there's Zionism, Kabbalist, and other streams. See a listing here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_religious_movements

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1236940#Comment_1236940

As for me.... I am a Christian and as such I believe it is always important to get to and let the word of God speak... So... with a Jew... I would start with looking at Romans chapters 1 and 2... which deal with that issue. Paul, an apostle, dealt with the issue much better than I could...

Our goal (my goal) is to help the person find Jesus... and they need to do that through God's word....

IMHO...........[8-|]

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1237196#Comment_1237196

Our goal (my goal) is to help the person find Jesus.

But the OP's goal is to better understand Judaism using Faithlife resources:

I wanted to know more about the Jewish faith. I have a very basic understanding of their faith. Stuff you learn in seminary and the odd mention in resources, but nothing substantive.

So, with all the resources available through FL, where does one start?

Mattillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1237255#Comment_1237255

https://ebooks.faithlife.com/product/55440/60-questions-christians-ask-about-jewish-beliefs-and-practices

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1237255#Comment_1237255

Our goal (my goal) is to help the person find Jesus.

I appreciate that! Good for you! My point still is.... what better way to help someone find Jesus than using the words that came from God.

I wish you well. [8-|]

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1236903#Comment_1236903

I'm looking for resources that will help me think like a Jewish person.

Reading the Bible with Rabbi Jesus: How a Jewish Perspective Can Transform Your Understanding

Sitting at the Feet of Rabbi Jesus: How the Jewishness of Jesus Can Transform Your Faith

Walking in the Dust of Rabbi Jesus: How the Jewish Words of Jesus Can Change Your Life

Restoring the Jewishness of the Gospel: A Message for Christians

Jewish New Testament Commentary

The Complete Jewish Study Bible Notes

Caution: a number of Pharisees looked righteous outside (repeatedly doing Jewish liturgy), but sadly somewhere in their Jewish studying had lost Loving Holy God the most. The phrase "Love Well" reminds of the most important commandment in Deuteronomy 6:4-5 and one like it in Leviticus 19:18

Keep Smiling [:)]

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1251878#Comment_1251878

Caution: a number of Pharisees looked righteous outside (repeatedly doing Jewish liturgy), but sadly somewhere in their Jewish studying had lost Loving Holy God the most.

Caution: This assertion re: Pharisees is potentially insulting to rabbinic Judaism which in some sense is the primary manifestation of Judaism today - although I've seem to run into an unrepresentative number of Hassidic and Kabbalistic individuals.

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1251878#Comment_1251878

One othe note....

I studied with a man, a Jew, and a dear friend. We studied every day for about an hour (we worked together and ate lunch together). He called himself a "normal good Jew".

But in our study, I found that he was really an agnostic as I have come to believe that most Jews are. An agnostic will say, "There may be a Jesus, but you can't prove He's the Son of God." Which with me anyway, changed the way I studied with my friend completely.

Just food to think about....

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1251917#Comment_1251917

I found that he was really an agnostic as I have come to believe that most Jews are. An agnostic will say, "There may be a Jesus, but you can't prove He's the Son of God."

Please check your definition of "agnostic" which in standard usage has no reference to a particular God. Having a family member who is an observant Jew and has raised her boys as Jews, I am touchy on language that comes even close to slandering Jews, especially in this political climate.

a standard definition of agnostic: "a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God." BTW: an excellent rebuttal of agnosticism is Exploring Mysticism: A Methodological Essay by Frits Staal because it is based on experiential phenomena. (Aside: this book was so groundbreaking that I had it assigned as a required text before it was even published.)

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1251896#Comment_1251896

Caution: a number of Pharisees looked righteous outside (repeatedly doing Jewish liturgy), but sadly somewhere in their Jewish studying had lost Loving Holy God the most.

Caution: This assertion re: Pharisees is potentially insulting to rabbinic Judaism which in some sense is the primary manifestation of Judaism today - although I've seem to run into an unrepresentative number of Hassidic and Kabbalistic individuals.

Concur with potential insult (need Holy wisdom what & when to discuss) while having biblical caution basis in Matthew 22:34-23:39 with me imagining intense Love spoken by Jesus in the seven woes: Good (God) Shepherd wants to set everyone free from their stink, but requires a person wanting to be set free. Number was intentionally vague (& NOT all) due to Matthew 27:57-61 , Mark 15:42-47 , Luke 23:50-56 , & John 19:38-42. Free will in every individual provides choice for what to believe, trust, & love most.

The other aspect of caution is a reminder to me about Proverbs 4:1-27 along with "Love Well" Deuteronomy 6:4-5 & Leviticus 19:18

At a Church sponsored Celebrate Recovery (CR) meeting, one person stated another addiction downfall is doable, but did not know if recovery after that downfall would be possible so intensely wants to keep recovery journey being positive toward Holy righteousness.

FWIW: most people participate in CR for hurts, habits, & hang-ups other than physical chemical addiction.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Jerome Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1252009#Comment_1252009

In reading through several books by Os Guiness, I noticed he referred to Jonathan Sacks, a Jewish writer. I found the works of Sacks on Amazon, since they are not in Logos. I purchased a number of Sack's commentaries on Scripture and found them very insightful.