Textual Variant
Does anyone know, or is there a way, that I can create a visual filter that shows "significant textual variants?"
Comments
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Probably not answering your question. I'm guessing you're asking about a dataset for major variants. I'm not aware, but maybe I missed them. Bible Browser is the most likely place to check.
Absent a dataset, first thought was Metzger under the heading 'significant'. That's how he chose (vs spelling, mistakes, etc). Significant relative to theology? Ehrman tried (quite disputably).
The SBL GNT is probably close to your needs. I don't use it, but the selectivity of variants (and top-level comparison) is useful. It has 2 searchable fields 'Variation Unit' and 'Variant Reading' (which I didn't succeed in VF'ing).
Besides Metzger and SBL (which I have in my apparatus layout section), I also do a visual filter on CNTTS (significance and century, reds/oranges better than muted colors):
And an old thread that's interesting to remember:
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I am familiar with that resource and use it a lot. But I though that there was, and I thought at one time I had it, a visual filter that you could place into the Bible Text for significant textual variants.
EDIT: But now that I look at it a little better, it seems to be a highlighting tool that I created, not a visual filter. But that would maybe be a good idea for the language scholars at Logos. To have a dataset that marks what is considered to be a significant textual variant. That would only be a guide of further study and the user decides for themselves whether or not it is. But I think a dataset to guide might be helpful.
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I'm just guessing your memory (and mine) is going back to UBS4 (UBSxx evaluated variants; NAxx didn't). In UBS4, they're a footnote (that the VF can evaluate); UBS5 has an apparatus indicator, with the 'footnotes' in the separate resource (not VF-catchable).
I think this issue came up a few months back, discussing when the apparatus was separated. Others probably have better memory.
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In SBLGNT you need something like variationUnit:* to highlight all word variations (variationUnit:ὤμοσεν just highlights that word). It is not a practical solution, and doesn't distinguish "significant" ones, so a FL dataset should be suggested at the Feedback site.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Does anyone know, or is there a way, that I can create a visual filter that shows "significant textual variants?"
This is basically the problem that the Lexham Textual Notes resource tries to solve. The front matter details how we selected the variations treated within the text. While it can scroll alongside, it isn't very visual-filter-able.
One other option would be to do a Book search of the SBLGNT footnotes for: negapp:(NA27 OR NA28 OR NIV). The problem is the apparatus indicators are small, so the search hits are hard to see without really looking for them.
"negapp" is a field that means "Negative apparatus", these are readings that are contrary to the reading the text takes. So the search looks for places where the NA27, NA28, or Greek text behind the NIV differ with the SBLGNT (based on SBLGNT apparatus citation).
Alternately, (I think; contrary to popular opinion I don't remember everything about how stuff works) you could search the SBLGNT apparatus for the same search, convert the search hits to a reference list, then VF the reference list (you can make visual filters from reference lists, right? I don't recall.) Anyway, those are some options.
Hope it helps,
- Rick
Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print0 -
Rick - my translation of your SBLGNT advice
- Create a highlighter style that will make the superscript highlight more visible e.g. a red vertical line + text highlighting; Save
- Create the Search you suggested negapp:(NA27 OR NA28 OR NIV) against the SBLGNT (the only open resource)
- Use the Search panel's Panel Menu to convert to a Visual Filter
- Assign the highlighter style to the search argument; Save
- Make sure the visual filter created is "turned on" for the SBLGNT
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Does someone who knows Hebrew well know how I could build a similar filter for Hebrew variations?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Does someone who knows Hebrew well know how I could build a similar filter for Hebrew variations?
Maybe Faithlife?
This thread illustrates the abysmal (1) documentation, (2) design for access, and (3) wasted time, for the app. They've got little notes here and there. Some 'user' efforts (wiki/forum). Some 'resources'. And an excellent product wasted.
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Does anyone know, or is there a way, that I can create a visual filter that shows "significant textual variants?"
This is basically the problem that the Lexham Textual Notes resource tries to solve. The front matter details how we selected the variations treated within the text. While it can scroll alongside, it isn't very visual-filter-able.
One other option would be to do a Book search of the SBLGNT footnotes for: negapp:(NA27 OR NA28 OR NIV). The problem is the apparatus indicators are small, so the search hits are hard to see without really looking for them.
"negapp" is a field that means "Negative apparatus", these are readings that are contrary to the reading the text takes. So the search looks for places where the NA27, NA28, or Greek text behind the NIV differ with the SBLGNT (based on SBLGNT apparatus citation).
Alternately, (I think; contrary to popular opinion I don't remember everything about how stuff works) you could search the SBLGNT apparatus for the same search, convert the search hits to a reference list, then VF the reference list (you can make visual filters from reference lists, right? I don't recall.) Anyway, those are some options.
Hope it helps,
- Rick
Hey Rick, thanks for the info..perhaps I am missing something or I did not explain well. I do not want to see all variants, I can look at a number of apparatuesus that I own, I want to see "significant." That is why I am saying, perhaps I missed something in your answer. What I am thinking is that I would love for there to be a dataset that marks the significant variants, not just form differences or mark differences. For example, a significant variant for me would be 1 John 5.7. I would find useful a dataset that marked those type of significant variants. And I know there are times when the scholars at FL may think that it is significant and the user might not. And that is OK, at least we have a guide for more study. I am not talking about the Critical Text has a "w" at the end of a word and the TR has an "a," I do not find that significant. And that is what the current apparatuses do, which is fine. I just think that kind of dataset might be useful to some; but maybe not!
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What I am thinking is that I would love for there to be a dataset that marks the significant variants, not just form differences or mark differences.
The Lexham Textual Notes is probably the closest to what you're looking for (and it includes notes on the OT too!). The passages that are noted with brief description in that resource are those:
- That tend to have footnotes in printed English Bibles that say things like: "Some manuscripts/editions have ..."
- Where the TR 'significantly' diverges from the critical text (NA/UBS, SBLGNT)
- Where SBLGNT 'significantly' diverges from NA/UBS
"Significant" is (IIRC, this was ... 10 years ago?) largely equivalent with "the variation implies a difference in translation". Not always, but mostly.
Hope it helps.
Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print0 -
This thread illustrates the abysmal (1) documentation, (2) design for access, and (3) wasted time, for the app.
In this particular case, what I lack to solve the problem is an intimate knowledge of what information is contained in specific resources and how that information is coded. If one is familiar with the resources, extracting the information is straightforward. It took about 10 minutes to set up the highlight and filter. We have two options which in which FL provides the information predigested for us:
- Brannan, Rick, and Israel Loken. The Lexham Textual Notes on the Bible. Lexham Bible Reference Series. Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2014.
- Textual Variants Guide section on Bible reference
Here is what Logos gives us:
- Green - the text I chose to consider the base for which other readings are variants with major variants (my definition) and all variants marked by a visual filter with link in Textual Variants Guide
- Red - the apparatus material presented as footnotes, as a separate resource, and as a link in the Textual Variants Guide
- Purple - the major variants converted to readable text for the lay person who doesn't wish to do their own research and though with a link in the Textual Variants Guide
- Gold - a link to the text comparison tool preloaded with the Greek New Testaments (top 5 in priority order) along with additional links to all other relevant resources of the types listed i.e. additional Textual Commentaries covering the text, additional Apparatuses covering the text . . .
For this specific use case, what additional documentation do you suggest? What changes would you make to the design to facilitate access? I agree that documentation needs enhancement; I agree that an AI front end for people with little background in the disciplines needed to answer their questions would be fantastic. But I am a Luddite pessimist who believes giving easy access to answers that are misunderstood is not a step forward in Bible study.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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For this specific use case, what additional documentation do you suggest? ...But I am a Luddite pessimist who believes giving easy access to answers that are misunderstood is not a step forward in Bible study.
Personally, I don't actually care, as regards their documentation; they don't, and it's theirs:
- If they want to survive for very long, they're going to need to sell to more people. Students only have so much money, and fewer and fewer pastors.
- Their ballyhoo'd church-serving market is primarily composed of 'normal' people. They've done little to nothing concerning their market. Bible classes, in-home learning, missions??
- At each new feature, they choose the least obvious UI, to insure the feature will get limited use. Then, threads go on and on, in hopes someone 'might know'. Serious?
- Dave's pretty much 'it' on expertise; Andrew because he volunteers. After that? After 12 years, that's where their app has arrived. So many missed opportunities.
- Then, they hit a pandemic, and FL should be the star-player ... but didn't bother but to minimally integrate their Logos, Proclaim, and mobiles. Each is out on a wild goose-chase.
- And they couldn't do church management? Because? CM is the money.
Yes, I remain a Luddhite ... Bible study and church aren't supposed to be as difficult as possible.
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In this particular case, what I lack to solve the problem is an intimate knowledge of what information is contained in specific resources and how that information is coded. If one is familiar with the resources, extracting the information is straightforward.
I like your presentation. The SBLGNT is the base Greek text for Logos (as LHB is for Hebrew) and it is the one to work with for personal study with RI translations. The apparatus "Variants" needed some explanation but it does have a simple comparison to NA28/NA27 for the doubters.
I look to the appropriate Search Fields:
- the resource Information page showed that Negative Apparatus was the field, and after typing that L!0 Search showed that negativeApparatus: is the field name.
- A scan of https://wiki.logos.com/Search_Fields_List (from New Search Help) showed that negapp: is the abbreviated name.
- Similarly, Variation Unit --> variationUnit: can be abbreviated as varunit:
- varunit:θαλάσσης WITHIN 2 CHARS negapp:(NA27 OR NA28) will find any variants for the word θαλάσσης
- the superscript apparatus marker counts as a character.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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I was thinking of doing the same thing and found this thread. I was surprised it wasn't 5 or 10 years old and actually only a month. This is what I ended up doing. First I had to make a passage list of all the entries from the Lexham Textual Notes on the Bible, as recommended in this thread. Unfortunately I couldn't just extract the passage list from the resource directly for several reasons. You can highlight some text and extract a passage list from it, but I would have to manually highlight the whole book to do that. I tried at first by starting at the bottom and scrolling up, but the more text you have highlighted, the more it takes up system memory and at about 1/3 of the book my computer was starting to struggle a little, and I have a pretty beefy computer. There was another problem, it could extract references, but in the end the references it extracted were not the headword references but those that were mentioned throughout the articles including ones I didn't want and excluding the ones I did want. So I just decided to slog through it and manually copy from the table of contents every verse reference into a passage list, I spent probably a total of about 5 or 6 hours on it today. That list can be found at
Now visual filters for passage lists are not quite what I had in mind for this, so I did a bit of a workaround. Instead of using that visual filter, I created a new one using a bunch of common words and OR operators to make sure that all of the verses got picked up by the search and constricted the search to the passage list. It is optimized to the LEB because that is the translation mostly used in the resource, but the filter will get most of the results in pretty much every English bible(but not all references, it misses between 20 and 150 of them with other Bibles right now). The visual filter can be found at
Now, the final part was to set the right kind of highlighting to make it useful. It would be super annoying to just highlight the words and, or, from, to, in, among, etc. in these verses and wouldn't do a good job of indicating where a textual variant occurs. There is one default icon, a left margin arrow pointing to the right that doesn't actually highlight the text but indicates rows where the search results occur for the filter. I didn't quite like the aesthetic of it though it served the purpose well and instead, set up my own icon which is just a book that is orange, well, because orange is my favorite color. The most annoying part of the work is done, and now there are visual indicators in my bibles where textual variants occur. I'll probably go back and fine-tune the visual filter search to better account for other translations and maybe hopefully remove extra words in the search that aren't needed and make the search a little heftier, but for now I'm satisfied with the LEB being optimized. Hope this is helpful to others who are trying to do the same thing.
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Well, Jason, you get the monthly award for persistance!
Though re-reading this thread, a varient dataset would generate some bucks for FL (and easy but arguable). However, the Lexham Textual Commentary is probably better (combines key varients with translation challenges).
But appreciate the write-up!
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"Significant" is (IIRC, this was ... 10 years ago?) largely equivalent with "the variation implies a difference in translation". Not always, but mostly.
This may (or may not) help. Hopefully it will plant a seed for someone with VF skills beyond average.
From an evangelical perspective, most of the "significant" textual variants are those produced by a difference in the TR and the eclectic text (whichever you prefer). Not all...but most.
Therefore, if you can find a way to make a VF for places where the TR and the (say) SBLGNT vary, you'll have many of the big ones.
Not perfect but maybe helpful if workable.
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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From an evangelical perspective, most of the "significant" textual variants are those produced by a difference in the TR and the eclectic text (whichever you prefer). Not all...but most.
Hmmm... if I were evangelical, I'd be most interested in the variations between the textus receptus and the Patriarchal text as they are both the received text with ancient roots in their respective traditions. BTW the normal term is "critical" rather than "eclectic" -- critical being a broader term that subsumes eclectic.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Unrelated to your question, I assume you enjoy CNTTS ? I almost bought it, but I haven't convinced myself to pull the trigger.
What do you like about it compared to NA, UBS, SBLGNT, TR apparataus'
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Unrelated to your question, I assume you enjoy CNTTS ? I almost bought it, but I haven't convinced myself to pull the trigger.
What do you like about it compared to NA, UBS, SBLGNT, TR apparataus'
They're separate tools, and off the top of my head, from use:
- The traditional apparatus (add Tischendorf, Tregelles, and many more) are mainly for what each thought significant (pick and choose). The SBLGNT's good specifically for broad groupings. And for everyday use, they're good (obviously). I have a set on my OT page (hebrew/greek,etc), and another set on my NT page (greek). Both part of my large 'research' layout.
- CNTTS looks at the problem from a different angle, trying to avoid pick and choose, as practical. So, let's say you entertain a different translation (yours), but want to know if mss's adjusted (bent) toward the proposal; CNTTS is it. Searchable for mss patterns, you can also see visual trending (as above), and they keep updating it (depends on FL,).
For, me, I depend a bunch on the syriac, the old latin, <200ce writers (Fathers), and CNTTS greek mss patterns.
For you, it really depends on if you're digging, or just understanding (ala Metzger). I forget why, but for some reason, I use both the 2010 and 2021 versions.
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This was helpful. Thank you for putting this together.
Just as a FYI, something that may help you in the future is the use of wildcard characters in a search.
You could simply put an asterisk in '*' to search for every single word. This would accomplish the same thing as your long list in the visual filter but with a single character.
I have noticed that Logos is slow to update changes when I use only the asterisk but once it catches up it works just fine and provides an easy way to accomplish capturing everything in cases like this.
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Good point, though as you said it creates a bit of a computing bottleneck. Not much of a problem for my computer, but not for everyone. It is also not that long of a list, and a lot of them are words used only once or twice to pick up the remaining verses that weren't picked up with the common words. Its a computing overhead problem, not just a search query problem. The obvious up-side is actually different than a simpler search query, namely that it would more easily be captured by the different English translations, which is why I will personally use this method going forward, but again it may be problematic for other people who don't have heavy-hitting hardware like I do.
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