Which Greek Keyboard?

I am faced with needing to choose in Word to (a) continue to use the BibleWorks Greek keyboard, (b) use the Logos Greek keyboard, or (c) use one of several Microsoft Greek keyboards. I'd welcome any thoughts.

I've used the BibleWorks Greek keyboard for years (or possibly the Logos one, I don't recall for certain). I became fairly proficient with it. Circumstances over the past few years have taken away a lot of my study time. Now that I'm back where I can focus more I also have a replacement laptop that has Windows 11. So I'm asking myself do I continue with the BW keyboard, given it's defunct though I use it a lot still (for while I love the many different functions of Logos, I've not found anything as streamlined and easy to use for basic functions as the BW interface).

Or, do I switch to the Logos keyboard? That is, assuming it's not the one I have installed now. A look at Windows settings didn't explicitly identify the keyboard

Or, do I switch to one of the several available Microsoft Greek keyboards? I tried the Greek Polytonic but it seemed less intuitive and more complex to use.

I'm just wondering if anyone has already done the work to evaluate and lay out the differences, as I'd rather not reinvent the wheel, since time is a concern at the moment.

Thanks for any thoughts.

Dale

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Mal Walker

I can't directly address some of your concerns as I don't have experience with those keyboards, but I'll share what I do. I use a free program called Keyman in combination with their Biblical Greek/Hebrew Keyboard called Galaxie Greek/Hebrew Mnemonic.

With both installed its a simple matter of hitting a keyboard shortcut (in my case the Windows Key + Spacebar) to swap between my English Keyboard and my Greek Keyboard, which means I can type in either language on the fly and switch between the two seamlessly - very handy when typing up an essay in MS Word or doing searches in Logos etc. Presumably this is how the other Unicode keyboards like the Logos one works.

As for the keyboard itself, the Galaxie Greek keyboard is designed specifically for typing in Konie Greek and I've found it easy to learn. If I get stuck, Keyman has a shortcut feature for bringing the keyboard up on screen so I can remind myself where the function that I'm looking for is. Here is a picture of it's layout that can be found here.

MJ. Smith

Or, do I switch to the Logos keyboard?

As these was well integrated into the application, this would be my recommendation.

Dale Lundy

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1243217#Comment_1243217

Thanks for the reply. I'll take a look.

A quick glance at the site gave me some encouragement simply due to the variety of keyboards they provide. I was surprised to find a Khmer keyboard for example. Doesn't help me now as my Khmer is limited to orally since as important as learning an alphabet is, time has not allowed. But that's an aside. Also, the layout you posted, while not identical to what I last used when time permitted, seems to be close to what I remember. That's a plus.

Given how hard keyboards are to relearn, two things concern me. One is will the product be available 5, 10, 15 years from now? I've found small companies in particular to be very bad about supporting a product until a person or two retires and then discontinuing it. Of course that's not limited to small companies. Microsoft and Google are notorious for doing the same. The other is that there are what I would call too many choices. In other words, I don't mind putting in time to develop muscle memory for keyboards that aren't the standard since their future availability may be in questions if most people adopt one of the other choices.

Nonetheless, you've given me a good alternative to consider and I appreciate it

Best wishes,

Dale

Dale Lundy

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1243227#Comment_1243227

Thanks for your reply MJ. The Logos keyboard may be the way to go. When you say it's well integrated into the application what does that mean? By that I mean, if I'm typing in Logos and I switch to any Greek keyboard by the simply Alt+Shft in Windows, then as long as the keyboard points to and enters the correct unicode characters, what will the difference be?

On the plus side I think the number of Logos users is a good sign for it remaining available and unchanged into the future. On the other hand, the fact that it is provided without warranty or support argues there is no real commitment to it or providing support going forward. Perhaps if Windows changes and the keyboard becomes incompatible we are left high and dry? Of course that's not to say Windows wouldn't change their own. Microsoft has discontinued before things on which people have come to rely.

I guess one question that just came to mind is -- I assume if I switch in Logos using the keyboard selector I'll get the Logos keyboard; if I switch in Windows using Alt+Shift I'll get whatever Greek keyboard I selected in Windows. Thus I think you may be saying that by using the Logos keyboard in Windows for Word Documents, I'll have consistency with the keystrokes needed for typing Greek in Logos? But then again, if I switch in Windows while I'm running Logos, then won't that work just as well as switching in Logos and still give me consistency? I guess that's just a restatement of my earlier question. Perhaps I can find time soon to run a test and see.

Thanks for you comments,

Dale

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1243259#Comment_1243259

On the other hand, the fact that it is provided without warranty or support argues there is no real commitment to it or providing support going forward.

Are you reading older version stuff or considering the integrated keyboard accessed by the keyboard icon? Or is the current documentation correct and as a Verbum user, it never occurred to me it was Verbum specific:[quote]How to Use the Keyboard Selector

Note: This feature is only available in the Verbum desktop application. Users can deactivate the Keyboard Selector in the Program Settings menu.

Verbum Help (Bellingham, WA: Faithlife, 2022). Oops, sorry.

Mal Walker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1243255#Comment_1243255

Given how hard keyboards are to relearn, two things concern me. One is will the product be available 5, 10, 15 years from now? I've found small companies in particular to be very bad about supporting a product until a person or two retires and then discontinuing it. Of course that's not limited to small companies. Microsoft and Google are notorious for doing the same. The other is that there are what I would call too many choices. In other words, I don't mind putting in time to develop muscle memory for keyboards that aren't the standard since their future availability may be in questions if most people adopt one of the other choices.

Yeah those are some good considerations Dale. I can't really alleviate some of those concerns except to say that Keyman has been around since 1993, so going on 30 years now. I expect it will keep going for a while. My experience with support is that the application itself receives regular updates every couple of months, but the keyboard itself requires no additional updates or support. Additionally, being open source and not proprietary means its much easier if the group were to close doors for someone else to pick up the flag and carry on.

Another option you could consider is from Tyndale, who provide both a Greek and Hebrew Keyboard here - https://www.stepbible.org/downloads.jsp Installation guide and usage guide PDF's are provided on that site as well. I have no idea what, if any ongoing support looks like though.

Andrew Batishko

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1243266#Comment_1243266

Note: This feature is only available in the Verbum desktop application. Users can deactivate the Keyboard Selector in the Program Settings menu.

Verbum Help (Bellingham, WA: Faithlife, 2022).

And the Logos Help file says the opposite ("This feature is only available in the Logos desktop application."). I'll report the documentation error. It's available on both.

Mal Walker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1243319#Comment_1243319

Is the Logos Greek Keyboard able to be used in applications outside of Logos/Verbum such as MS Word?

Dale Lundy

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1243453#Comment_1243453

Is the Logos Greek Keyboard able to be used in applications outside of Logos/Verbum such as MS Word?

Yes, it is. See https://www.logos.com/product/53264/original-languages-keyboards-for-windows?utm_auth_action=signin for details.

Dale

Mal Walker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1243513#Comment_1243513

Thanks Dale.

John William

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1243590#Comment_1243590

Hi everyone