Thinking about PBB content and Stand-alone or Cloud-Sync ...

Jim,

we are waiting for Logos to release the specs,

I wouldn't count on your PBB being able to be on the iphone/ipad, but it would be nice..

I will be wanting my PBB local only.. dont want them synced unless I choose to share them

Logos has indicated they will have the PBBs be in the native book format. I've read other's assert that the PBBs will be managed through some "marketplace" which means we will download them from Logos like purchases (I haven't read this from a Logos employee but from people I would trust have been told this by Logos). So I would assume that the books would come down in a one-time download and then only the notes etc attached to the book will do any syncing.

If PBB's are actually made public I'll cancel my subscription and not place or update them to L4.

Reason: I have e-books that I have a copyright to have a personal copy of that cannot be shared.

I have them in L3 and do not have this issue- and since my license is for "personal use" I can't see Logos making my personal doc's public.

Thanks Bob- this relieves some concerns for my copyrighted PBB's.

Bob Pritchett said:

This is just "the state of the thinking"....

-- Bob

Bob, this all sounds wonderful.  I gather you are still working out the business model as it pertains to compiling books.  Any insight you could provide here would be interesting and welcome.  Also, In Logos 3 I had some very good luck turning websites (with permission) into PBs that made them nicely integrated into Logos.  Clearly, you are planning for even better integration, which is great news.  Ii would great if the flexibility to do projects such as the one I just described were part of the new version.

Dudley

Bob,

One more thing i just thought of, that i asked for in L3, and would like to see in L4... to be able to turn a note file into a PBB. 

Thanks again!

Joe K

Bob Pritchett said:

A) No more second-class citizens. PBB will use the same internal file format as books we distribute, so highlighting and other features "just work."

Bob,
Thank you for the details. It is what you don't say that piques my curiosity.
For the record: Will PBBs be FREE in Logos 4 or will an annual license be required to access them?

You have never said PBBs would be free in Logos 4 but every poster in this thread is assuming that will be the case. If their assumption is correct, how can Logos donate all the time to rework the PBBs without hope of financial recouperation? You know many of the 900+ PBBs out there are rough around the edges. Others are titles you have already produced in Logos 4 format (Calvin.) It would be impossible to get Barnes' Notes out of Pre-Pub if you are going to make it freely available as a full featured "first class citizen."

I don't want to throw cold water on all the excitement but economic reality says it's an unsustainable business model. If Logos will function as a license clearing house, there will be ongoing costs.

I just wanted to hear an official statement of what our expectations should be.

Matthew C Jones said:

I don't want to throw cold water on all the excitement but economic reality says it's an unsustainable business model. If Logos will function as a license clearing house, there will be ongoing costs.

Maybe Logos should have a flat charge per PBB in order to download.  Just don't charge the creator [;)]

Joe K

Matthew C Jones said:

every poster in this thread is assuming that

Actually, my question about the business model was exactly to the point that I didn't t expect compiling even our own books to be free.  I'd love that, though.

Dudley

MJ. Smith said:

one is motivated to create a PBB only if you don't have it and can't get it. What is or is not available in PBB's depends specifically on what people like myself chose to do.

Yes, generally speaking. But we already had Calvin's commentaries in PBB before Logos did them in Version 4. 

Will Logos make any public domain PBBs available when they could produce their own in-house version for a better profit? For example: Barnes' Notes or the Stone-Campbell works that Calvin Habig did are all public domain titles that have a profitable marketability. I doubt Logos would make just any titles available in PBB format..

I already have most every Puritan writer in Pre-Pub in PDF format. (80 CDs full) It would not be hard to PBB all that but I doubt Logos would compile any of it. Same with the Stone-Campbell material. (Millineal Harbinger, The Christian Baptist,  Works of Lard, Franklin, etc.)

So there isn't much need for PBB in Logos 4 outside of a "vanity press" function. Everybody wants to write a book and Logos is king of copyrighted Bible related ebooks. I doubt any PBBs come out in Logos 4 without close scrutiny for copyright infringement or due consideration to how it's publication will impact future Logos publication opportunities. (That is why the Puritan works show up in Pre-Pub and not Community Pricing.. There is a bigger profit to be made.)

I still think you won't get the 900+ Version 3 PBBs in Logos 4.

MJ. Smith said:

Why do you doubt Logos would compile Puritan or Stone-Campbell material?

MJ,
If I were the Logos exec who has to decide to compile a PBB of a Stone-Campbell Collection or put one up in Pre-Pub for $200, I would do the later.

MJ. Smith said:

I'd appreciate  your trying to resolve my confusion.

I would like to tell you I am wise enough not to debate someone of superior intellect. But we both know that isn't the case. [:P] So I'll have to defer this until later. I'm experiencing serious health challenges and need to determine if it is "only" pancreatitis or something more ominous. I suspect they will hold me hostage in the hospital for a number of days. Besides, any posts I make now are tainted from sleepless nights of pain.

I do covet your prayers.

Sorry to come onto the discussion late, but I think this could be a really smart move. I think the pricing model would be to allow PBB creation for free.

The idea of the store is an interesting one. One of Logos' most significant costs is content creation/formatting. If it costs them $10,000 to tag and publish a public domain resource that the community is willing to do for free, then why not sell it on the PBB store for $1 or so? If the system can be automated, then overheads would be very low, bar credit-card processing costs. But I could imagine a split where 40% covers costs, 10% goes to the creator, and Logos would keep perhaps 50%. I could easily see several hundred thousand PBB works sold for $1 over the course of a year - if they were marked up well and properly integrated into Logos. There could even be bulk credit discounts to keep those card processing costs low. Do the maths: 100,000 PBBs selling for $1 could net Logos $50,000. That would probably pay for the infrastructure within the first year. Indeed, much of the infrastructure would be shared with in-app purchasing which must surely be on the horizon soon.

Would Logos allow users to re-create titles they've spend thousands of dollars creating? Probably not - yet. But once they've got their money back, I wouldn't be surprised.

The problem I see here is in quality control. What's stopping us downloading documents from CCEL, converting them to PBB format and uploading them to the store, with the formatting and mark-up done badly? You wouldn't want twenty copies of different books from different creators, either. There's a couple of options. One would be to charge content creators before they can sell. The second would be to manually review every submission. I wouldn't be surprised if Logos did both.

It's quite possible that Logos might only allow Public Domain works on the PBB store, to protect their revenue and ensure quality resources are fully tagged and supported.

Bohuslav Wojnar said:

It appears to me that there are two major changes in PBB system from what we have seen working in V3:

1. Logos 4 is not using any addins anymore, so PBB compiler will have to be part of Logos 4, that means everybody will have it.

Not necessarily. While they aren't implemented as separately purchasable "addins" anymore, there are different features that are only available in higher up base packages. So they do have the technical capability to have features such as the PBB compiler be available only to those who pay for it, whether it's build into the main Logos engine or not. I suspect that as a compiler (which just takes a source file as input and produces a resulting resource file) it won't need to be part of the Logos UI, and I don't see any strong reason why they would choose to make it so. But I can't read their minds.

Bohuslav Wojnar said:

If the new system would let me pay to compile a single pbb resource or even to buy any work of other guys via Apps store, I am perfectly fine with that.

Martha and I heard a hint from a Logos employee at Camp Logos a couple of months ago that there will be some sort of marketplace for PBBs created by users.

Bohuslav Wojnar said:

Logos is decided, as far as I understand it, to make sure PBBs are not able to cripple Logos 4 performance. So it looks to me they will have their hands on the end result by having compilation done on their servers (sort of Apple's way of approving the applications offered in their Apps Store).

They won't necessarily have to do it that way. They could choose to make their compiler available for users to run on their own computers. It sounds like all PBBs will have to be compiled in order to run, because they've said they are going to be using native Logos book format for PBBs in L4.

Bohuslav Wojnar said:

My question is: will we still have 2 options for PBBs? The Standard one and Private one? Will I be able to compile some books I have rights to use but not to offer to anybody else?

Your guess is as good as mine. I think they are still working out the details. They haven't begun implementing PBB yet, according to a recent comment by Bob or Bradley (I think) referring to what is marked "Started" vs. "Planned" on the UserVoice site.

What does the timinglook like for implementing Personal Book Builder for L4.x?