Why I don't use Preaching themes - an appeal for votes on suggestions

MJ. Smith
MJ. Smith Member, MVP Posts: 53,072 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited November 21 in English Forum

I grew up with a Finnish Grandmother in a town with an Apostolic Finnish Lutheran Church. That does relate to preaching themes. The Apostolic Finnish Lutheran Church, which has now dropped Finnish from its name, is a pietist movement formed in Northern Finland and Sweden. It has no seminaries and little formal structure. It uses lay preachers - one, a farmer whom I barely remember, followed by a carpenter/farmer who financed trips back to Finland with "preaching gigs" throughout the world. What did I learn from this. Does the congregation need a preacher? God will provide. Does the preacher need skill in finding a topic? God will provide. Does the topic meet the needs of this particular congregation at this particular time? God will provide. And I built a corollary - if God doesn't provide there is probably something really wrong with the congregation.

So look at a well-known Advent passage in Logos/Verbum:

Now when I read the passage what topics come to mind (remember I trust a lay person's impulse)?

  • God's intervention in history
  • the Incarnation / kenosis / condensation / God is with us
  • compassion (of Joseph for Mary)
  • private revelation (Joseph's message from God)
  • fulfillment of prophecy

What doesn't come to mind?

  • disobedience
  • divorce
  • salvation
  • scripture
  • sin
  • miracle

That is not to say that I can't shoe them in as topics touched upon in the passage, but it would be dishonoring the actual intent of the passage to treat them as the theme of the passage. Topics and Preaching themes are two distinct things - the first easily identifiable by running a search on books with a type of "Bible concordance" - the latter not actually available in Logos/Verbum as no reasonable analysis of a passage such as Matthew 1:18-25 would find 24 separate themes in the passage. Rather, to offer that many "themes" is to encourage the preacher to ignore the actual contents of the passage entirely.

Some suggestions (short of starting over):

Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."

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  • Dave Hooton
    Dave Hooton Member, MVP Posts: 35,672 ✭✭✭

    Now when I read the passage what topics come to mind (remember I trust a lay person's impulse)?

    • God's intervention in history
    • the Incarnation / kenosis / condensation / God is with us
    • compassion (of Joseph for Mary)
    • private revelation (Joseph's message from God)
    • fulfillment of prophecy

    I would have a similar list that covers 5 of the Themes in this pericope.

    What doesn't come to mind?

    • disobedience
    • divorce
    • salvation
    • scripture
    • sin
    • miracle

    These are 6 of the remaining 21 Themes!

    An amazing 26 Themes are  found in this pericope (listed in the Context menu and the Theme Guide)! It would be interesting to know how the Theme Guide arrives at two main themes, but it does cover the title of the pericope! Perhaps I should be grateful that the 56 themes of one Concordance** are not listed.  The search preachingTheme:"Jesus' Birth" presents results outside of the OT and synoptic Gospels that are dubious. Compare with topic:"Jesus’ Virgin Birth"  and LSTO:"Jesus’ Virgin Birth".

    The 17 Themes for Mt 2:1-12 (The Visit of the Wise Men) are even less relevant to me, but the main theme (arguably) appears in the Theme Guide as  there is no theme for "Wise Men". The same Concordance** has 53 themes.  But compare preachingTheme:"Jesus' Epiphany" with topic:epiphany.

    My concerns are:

    • the excess coverage of a Theme in Bibles e.g. preachingTheme:Marriage especially when it is involved with Default Reference Matching for culture:Marriage together with preachingTheme:"Courtship, Dating and Romantic Relationships".
      • Logos Help states "Default  returns results from other datatypes with the same value"
      • so why is LSTO:Marriage not involved?
    • why do we have preachingTheme:"Jesus' Birth" when Default/Broad does not include topic:"Jesus’ Virgin Birth" which in turn is treated separately to topic:"Virgin Birth of Jesus Christ".

    ** Dictionary of Bible Themes (Manser)

    Dave
    ===

    Windows 11 & Android 13

  • MJ. Smith
    MJ. Smith Member, MVP Posts: 53,072 ✭✭✭✭✭
    https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1246231#Comment_1246231

    Thanks Dave - good examples of how messed up the themes/topics/etc. FL coding is.

    Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."

  • Olli-Pekka Ylisuutari
    Olli-Pekka Ylisuutari Member Posts: 268

    Now when I read the passage what topics come to mind (remember I trust a lay person's impulse):

    • the Incarnation / kenosis / condensation / God is with us

    Sorry for resurrecting a ten months old thread, MJ! Could not resist the temptation... Greetings from Finland!

    The Advent passage is relevant again, as Christmas is coming.

    Here's my brand new take on Kenosis and Philippians 2: 5-11, a song I finished today:

    [View:https://youtu.be/vIUatwqs_AU:550:0]

    Merry Christmas, everybody!

    Check out my channel with Christian music in Youtube: @olli-pekka-pappi. Newest song (Oct 23rd 2024), The Prayer of St. Francis of Assisi, https://youtu.be/sRkAJvrmnBY

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