Bible Interpretation Choices at a Glance

GaoLu said:

Are you aware of these?

https://www.logos.com/search?query=lexham%20research%20commentaries&sortBy=Relevance&limit=30&page=1&ownership=all&geographicAvailability=availableToMe 

Thanks, GaoLu.  I have them all, but think they do a different job.  There may be a way of combining the two in the future, with the Lexham Research Commentaries allowing a drill down and greater sense of nuance for what they assess to be the most pressing issues of the day.

Nine months on since I posted this, I still think it’s an idea worth supporting, so I’ve updated the spreadsheet that illustrates the idea.  For an explanation see the first post above. 

The spreadsheet (below) now includes:

Introductory questions for all New Testament books;

More introductions;

Information on authors (click “Show Info Rows” to see this data);

Information from bestcommentaries.com where available (click “Show Info Rows” to see this data);

Tidied information and better presentation throughout;

A new key to better display the information as I think it should be displayed

     instead of just “x” for yes, support or “blank” for no support or no information, I’m suggesting:

I’ve applied this to introductory questions to illustrate how it works.

Feedback would be great.  Votes for the idea would be even better.

Vote here: feedback.faithlife.com/boards/logos-desktop-app/posts/bible-interpretation-choices-at-a-glance

Here’s the latest spreadsheet: New Testament Issues - March 2023.xlsm

Thanks for reading, and for supporting if you do.

Dave Hooton said:

Had problems downloading as my Firefox browser associated this with a docx file!

I couldn't use the macros even though I explicitly enabled VBA and Excel macros in Trust Centre.

As you state we should " see what different commentators have said about every Bible passage over the last two thousand years", I offer the following from my current study in Revelation:

• Rev 16:14 --  no comment on the gathering or its relationship to Rev 19:19
• Rev 19:19  -- no comment at all on vs. 17-20!
• Rev 20:7-8  -- no comment on these verses e.g. recapitulation of Rev 19:19, who is Gog or the Nations?
• Rev 20:9  -- no comment on the "fire" judgment

And it gets technical where I'm not looking for technical i.e. original language.

Overall, it doesn't suit my study method, and it certainly needs a better presentation than a spreadsheet can offer.

Perhaps this isn't for you, Dave, but I agree with a number of your comments.

I'm not sure what the issue is with it being associated with .docx, but I don't think it's a Firefox issue, or anything I've done in uploading the file.  I'm open to suggestions.  The same happened with uploading a spreadsheet to the Theology/Denomination Tags post:  https://community.logos.com/forums/p/54491/1252807.aspx#1252807

Sorry you couldn't get the macros to run.  The buttons with red text are very slow, but the others should work well.  If anyone finds a way round this, then I'd be happy to hear the solution.  Assuming you have downloaded the spreadsheet and enabled macros on opening it, as well as allowing macros more generally in your copy of Excel, it should work well.

I'm not suggesting that the model I have posted shows all that it could.  Far from it!  It's based on a small number of resources so far, mainly Richard Bauckham's work on Jude and the Exegetical Summaries series, with Introductions and Study Bibles added, plus a little more from the Evangelical Exegetical Commentaries on Philippians and Jude.  The intention is that it would be far more comprehensive.  I'm not looking for Logos to simply adopt what I have done, but to greatly expand on it.

That said, if you can recommend resources that address the questions you have in mind in Revelation, referencing the views of a large enough number of other commentators to make it worthwhile, then I'll gladly add rows for each of these questions.

Is it too technical?  I worked to make the Jude section less technical sounding, while trying not to lose the level of understanding.  I haven't done nearly as much work on the rest so far.

One of my main comments was that it needed better presentation than a spreadsheet.  That's something else that Logos could greatly help with.  If anyone else would like to suggest better ways to display the data, I'd love to hear.

It sounds like you agree that Logos could improve the data and presentation, so it still might be helpful to vote: https://feedback.faithlife.com/boards/logos-desktop-app/posts/bible-interpretation-choices-at-a-glance

Thanks for your feedback.

Dave Hooton said:

Revelation:

I have Lenski 1963, NIGTC 1999, and assume Beck 1919 = Beckwith 1919. I have updated NICNT 1997 (unless 1977 is a typo), TNTC 2018 (1987 is the original version)

I have the one-volume BKC 1985 (Walvoord) which you do not list, and which could replace Walv 1966.

So, is the "passage of time" going to be reflected by updated versions of a commentary (probably different author) or only by the date range of available/selected commentaries?

Andrew Baguley said:

It's about giving an overview on the more controversial issues.  I don't think anyone thinks the suggested database should replace exegetical commentaries.  If anything it would point to them,

For  Rev 16:14  I find that NIGTC is excellent (has appropriate cross-references), whilst Lenski, NICNT and TNTC also comment on the single verse.

For Rev 19:17-20  Lenski comments on each verse, NICNT and NIGTC combine 17,18. and comment separately on 19, 20.

But what do you/FL choose "as an overview on the more controversial issues"? And which ones do you link to?

So I trust you are getting the idea that it is a very ambitious project when one can use Passage Guide to accomplish similar requirements by:

• prioritizing commentaries
• placing exegetical commentaries in one or more collections 
• public collections assist with this
• one-volume commentaries allow for missing bible books.
• differentiating collections by date range if necessary
• The PG Era may be too broad for some users
• an updated resource could be in different collections or the same one with a simple change
• prioritization affects the order of commentaries
• using Parallel Book sets to choose other volumes for a passage e.g. more technical or background.

Passage Guide already assists in separating by Type (Exegetical, Expositional, etc.), Denomination, Era and Date/Author are listed with the "Title" (some advanced users modify volume Title/Series to assist identification in PG).

I can see where some of your misunderstandings have come from.  If your buttons and macros are not working, then you may want to highlight Row 7 and the row immediately underneath it, then right click and select Unhide.  This will show all the data, including the references, for the works you cite.  Yes, Beck = Beckwith, 1977 NICNT is the original - 1997 is the revised edition (see page iv).

However, I'm not sure whether you realise that the spreadsheet is a model to illustrate the idea.  If Logos adopt it, then it would be up to them to decide which commentaries and other studies to include.  Personally, I would think the more the merrier.  Generally, it's not worth including revised editions by the same author, as they rarely change that much.  Revised editions by different authors change radically and are worth including.  E.g. Douglas Moo's updated NICNT volume has often updated the wording, but it rarely takes a different position.  If AI was generating the data (and it didn't need people to spend hours on it), then I would happily include even revised editions by the same author, but otherwise, I suspect it wouldn't be worth the time needed.

It's not worth questioning the choice of commentaries currently included on Revelation.  This would be a question for the publisher or author of the exegetical summaries volume, as this was what was used.  I've tried to be transparent on my sources of data.  However, it is worth noting that the number of issues and commentaries considered in the Revelation volumes is comparatively low, compared with the other Exegetical Commentaries (see the number in brackets after the book names in row 3).

Which issues should be addressed?  That's trickier, but the idea is that we all stand on the shoulders of giants, so it would be about going through the more technical commentaries (e.g. NIGTC, ICC, NICNT) and choosing the issues that the expert authors have selected as the issues where different interpreters differ in their interpretation.  One advantage of the database would be that it would succinctly describe the issue, the positions taken and the different commentators taking the different positions "at a glance".  In some cases, it would be clear that evangelicals took one position, while more liberal commentators took another, or reformed interpreters took one position, while Arminian interpreters took another, or that favourite interpretations are preferred in different countries or time periods.  The database would show this much more clearly and quickly than any commentary I've seen so far, and the data could be linked to resources in Logos, so that it could be checked easily.

Yes, it's ambitious, and it would hopefully continue to grow and become increasingly useful over time, but I think even a small start would be useful for many of us, as we can't keep all that data in our heads very easily, so shortcuts in understanding the issues are helpful.

Yes, passage guide is useful, and I have voted for some of the changes in allowing it to become more useful, and I have definitely tried to encourage FL to include Denomination information that was previously lacking (https://community.logos.com/forums/t/54491.aspx?PageIndex=1).  However, this suggestion still adds greatly to what is provided.  I'm only too aware that even the 30,000+ row, 1100+ column spreadsheet still doesn't demonstrate the usefulness of the suggestion, but I hope at least some of us can see how helpful the database (with a much better user interface) could be, especially as more data is added.

Interested?  Vote here: https://feedback.faithlife.com/boards/logos-desktop-app/posts/bible-interpretation-choices-at-a-glance

MJ. Smith said:

I guess what I'm saying is that it is easy to mistakenly collect a ton of interpretative choices that are simply the surface effect of actual choices made elsewhere. This allows one to go through the data without ever actually challenging one's own beliefs because you never got to where the challenging issue actually lies.

Thanks for continuing to engage, MJ.  Apologies for taking months to respond.

You are right, of course, that "it is easy to mistakenly collect a ton of interpretative choices that are simply the surface effect of actual choices made elsewhere".  The attempt to show how interpretive choices are influenced by denomination, theology, location, date, etc. should help to guard against this.  The added columns showing resources that have been recommended arguing for and against each issue should also help.

When I worked on the Jude data, I tried to show dependencies, when one interpretive choice influenced another.  This hasn't really made it into the current spreadsheets to the same extent, but I'm hoping it will as things progress (ideally by Logos!).

I'm also hoping that this data will aid further research, rather than be an end in itself.  Just because a stance/view is the majority one or the traditional one doesn't make it right, but the data provided should help to point to the reasons people hold their views, and the reader can decide which of the reasons they find the most compelling.

I've added data drawn from Raymond Brown's Birth of the Messiah and his Death of the Messiah, before adding more data from regular commentaries.

Here are the updated spreadsheets, with links to them as shared documents:

New Testament Issues - Gospels and Acts.xlsm

Shared document available here: https://1drv.ms/x/s!Al6XZ3KAsP1pgSHPTMa7xik37YOB?e=glDcFO 

New Testament Issues - Pauline.xlsm

Shared document available here: https://1drv.ms/x/s!Al6XZ3KAsP1pgSVFbsPFBoZTbKe4?e=KXRkQp 

New Testament Issues - Heb - Rev.xlsm

Shared document available here: https://1drv.ms/x/s!Al6XZ3KAsP1pgSRFJZb9uJe7ctBw?e=eMDAlN 

As always, feedback would be great.  Votes for the idea would be even better.

Vote here: feedback.faithlife.com/boards/logos-desktop-app/posts/bible-interpretation-choices-at-a-glance

See the Help Appreciated tab if you can help or you know someone else who can.

See the Links tab for other related projects that it would be great if Logos took over.