Orthodox Churches

DAL

What is exactly an Orthodox Church?

I’ve heard about Baptist Russian Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Jewish Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, etc.

Are they one and the same or are they just offshoots of the Eastern Orthodox (Catholics not from the west)?

Seems like we’re stuck in a circle when it comes to the different names and practices protestant or not protestant 🤨

DAL

PS. I’ll check back tomorrow to see if there are any answers. Good night!

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R. Mansfield

I've never heard of "Baptist Russian Orthodox," and Orthodox Judaism is something different. But Eastern Orthodox is an umbrella term for churches drawing their roots originally from four of the five, and Eastern-most of the ancient patriarchates of the church: Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem. Rome was the fifth patriarchate and is the only "Western" representative of the five ancient churches. Eastern Orthodox churches are (generally) in communion with one another. So, I go to an Antiochian Orthodox Church, but I'm just as welcome to worship and take communion at a Greek or Russian Orthodox (OCA or ROCOR) church. And with the permission of bishops, priests from the various jurisdictions can even administer liturgies together. For my friends who are still Baptist, I often like to say the different Orthodox groups are about like the difference between Louisiana Baptists and Mississippi Baptists--same beliefs and structures but sometimes with slightly different cultural traditions.

You see these various different groups in the United States because the local churches all started as congregations for different immigrant groups. I attend an Antiochian Orthodox church in Shreveport, but there are also Greek and OCA churches in the same city. We often hold events with all three congregations together. In the last two or three decades, there has been a "discovery" of the Orthodox Church in the United States and there are lots of converts. In my church, there are more converts than "cradle" Orthodox. There is a North American council of Orthodox bishops that regularly meets together. I hope that within my lifetime there will be some consolidation, and we will see a unified "North American Orthodox Church" or something like that. But Orthodoxy never moves quickly. The United States, for instance, is still seen historically as a "new" nation in the scheme of history, so some things take a while.

In 2020, at my mostly-now-neglected blog, I wrote a post, "What Is the Orthodox Church?" which may give you more information. I was trying to address questions my friends had. I would also recommend the website OrthodoxIntro as a good place to start.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1257426#Comment_1257426

I must complain that R. Mansfield totally ignores the Oriental Orthodox with roots in at least the Alexandrian and Antiochian patriarchates. The name "Oriental Orthodox" was adopted in the mid 1950's; prior to that Catholics tended to call them "Ancient Churches of the East." I don't know what Eastern Orthodox called them. R. Mansfield made the mistake of thinking of only Eastern Orthodox. However, both Catholics and Eastern Orthodox have issued joint ecumenical statements with churches in the Oriental Orthodox group.

R. Mansfield

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1257428#Comment_1257428

I must complain that R. Mansfield totally ignores the Oriental Orthodox with roots in at least the Alexandrian and Antiochian patriarchates. The name "Oriental Orthodox" was adopted in the mid 1950's; prior to that Catholics tended to call them "Ancient Churches of the East." I don't know what Eastern Orthodox called them. R. Mansfield made the mistake of thinking of only Eastern Orthodox. However, both Catholics and Eastern Orthodox have issued joint ecumenical statements with churches in the Oriental Orthodox group.

My apologies. I didn't actually forget. I just opted not to stray too far as I was trying to be as general as possible without getting too much into various groups and subgroups.

With ongoing dialogs in recent years, I hope for full reunification with all these Orthodox traditions. I know specific instances where Ethiopian and other non-Chalcedonian Orthodox Christians have been allowed to receive communion at the more mainstream (I know, a relative term!) Orthodox churches, with the blessings of bishops, because they did not have congregations of their own traditions locally. Thus, I hope that what is already happening unofficially will eventually become official, even though there is much to work out.

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1257429#Comment_1257429

Thanks for the responses! 🙏

Blair Laird

https://www.facebook.com/groups/christiantheologicaldiscussion

This group was designed for discussion among protestants, orthodox, and catholic rites. It may be beneficial to answer questions you may have from different perspectives

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1257560#Comment_1257560

https://www.facebook.com/groups/christiantheologicaldiscussion

This group was designed for discussion among protestants, orthodox, and catholic rites. It may be beneficial to answer questions you may have from different perspectives

Thanks!

DAL

Morgan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1257562#Comment_1257562

R. Mansfield, in light of my other post here, could you give some essential reading to help understand the Orthodox tradition?

R. Mansfield

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1257598#Comment_1257598

R. Mansfield, in light of my other post here, could you give some essential reading to help understand the Orthodox tradition?

Well, your linked post asked for systematic theologies. Know that Orthodox theology doesn’t fit well into most systematic categories (which have their roots in scholasticism of which Orthodoxy was never a part). Orthodox doctrine is not always easily categorized and often tied into specific historical events, daily practice, and liturgical cycles. Orthodoxy is hardly a faith that can be limited to something written down. It is an active faith that is extremely experiential.

The late Bishop Kalistos Ware wrote two works that addressed both history and teaching. The history is found in The Orthodox Church: An Introduction to Eastern Christianity. I don’t believe it is available in a Logos edition. The second book is The Orthodox Way. I just finished listening to the audio version and was reminded of how beautifully Ware describes the faith and practice of the Church.

Another volume worth looking at is Fr. Andrew Louth’s Introducing Eastern Orthodox Theology.

Again, though, I would suggest that Orthodoxy is best experienced in services. One can read and read and read, but none of it prepares you for a worship experience engaging all five sense. And the teaching of the church is so beautifully expressed in the thousands of hymns that make up vespers, matins, Orthros, and Divine Liturgy services.

Michael Kinch

What is exactly an Orthodox Church?

I’ve heard about Baptist Russian Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Jewish Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, etc.

Are they one and the same or are they just offshoots of the Eastern Orthodox (Catholics not from the west)?

Seems like we’re stuck in a circle when it comes to the different names and practices protestant or not protestant 🤨

DAL

PS. I’ll check back tomorrow to see if there are any answers. Good night!

Dal I came across this thread in doing some research. Christianity Today Magazine from 1997 has an article entitled "Why I Am Not Orthodox." It seems to have some good points both pro and con. If you don't have the journals you can pick up the issues from 1997 here.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1298211#Comment_1298211

Dal I came across this thread in doing some research. Christianity Today Magazine from 1997 has an article entitled "Why I Am Not Orthodox." It seems to have some good points both pro and con.

Well, if you're going the polemic route rather than descriptive, I suggest Constantinou, Eugenia Scarvelis. Thinking Orthodox: Understanding and Acquiring the Orthodox Christian Mind. Chesterton, IN: Ancient Faith Publishing, 2020.

Michael Kinch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1298242#Comment_1298242

Thanks MJ. I really appreciate your suggestion. Thinking Orthodox: Understanding and Acquiring the Orthodox Christian Mind. is in the Logos 10 Orthodox Starter. My price is only $25:35.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1298251#Comment_1298251

It is one of the best books on the Orthodox phronema (Orthodox mindset or outlook or world view ... or something like that; there's a reason it is often left untranslated).

Roy

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1298242#Comment_1298242

Dal I came across this thread in doing some research. Christianity Today Magazine from 1997 has an article entitled "Why I Am Not Orthodox." It seems to have some good points both pro and con.

Well, if you're going the polemic route rather than descriptive, I suggest Constantinou, Eugenia Scarvelis. Thinking Orthodox: Understanding and Acquiring the Orthodox Christian Mind. Chesterton, IN: Ancient Faith Publishing, 2020.

Link to the book in the store https://www.logos.com/product/212138/thinking-orthodox-understanding-and-acquiring-the-orthodox-christian-mind .
MJ's link will try to open the resource in Logos. [;)]

Michael Kinch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1298270#Comment_1298270

Dal I came across this thread in doing some research. Christianity Today Magazine from 1997 has an article entitled "Why I Am Not Orthodox." It seems to have some good points both pro and con.

Well, if you're going the polemic route rather than descriptive, I suggest Constantinou, Eugenia Scarvelis. Thinking Orthodox: Understanding and Acquiring the Orthodox Christian Mind. Chesterton, IN: Ancient Faith Publishing, 2020.

Link to the book in the store https://www.logos.com/product/212138/thinking-orthodox-understanding-and-acquiring-the-orthodox-christian-mind .
MJ's link will try to open the resource in Logos.

Thanks Roy. Yes it tried to open in Logos but I was able to follow it to the web store.

Christopher Esget

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1298272#Comment_1298272

I haven't finished it yet, but Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy: Finding the Way to Christ in a Complicated Religious Landscape might also be helpful to those curious about this topic.

https://www.logos.com/product/212985/orthodoxy-and-heterodoxy-finding-the-way-to-christ-in-a-complicated-religious-landscape-rev-ed

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1298285#Comment_1298285

The word "Orthodox" can be misleading... Notice the meaning of the word....

-----------------------------------------

"orthodox /ôr′thə-dŏks″/

adjective

Adhering to the accepted or traditional and established faith, especially in religion.
Adhering to the Christian faith as expressed in the early Christian ecumenical creeds.
Of or relating to any of the churches or rites of the Eastern Orthodox Church.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition"

---------------------------

Given that.... wouldn't it be safe to say that any "church" that has any form of creed that it follows is an "Orthodox Church" no matter what it believes?

I have often wondered if the words like "Orthodox" and such, are just used to differentiate between different beliefs... for example... A "church" can be said to not be an "Orthodox church" simply because they don't believe like me.

Where am I amiss?

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1298338#Comment_1298338

The word "Orthodox" can be misleading... Notice the meaning of the word....

I rather think that the same can be said for 'catholic', 'evangelical', 'charismatic', 'reformed' and even 'protestant'.

Perhaps only Baptist and Lutheran get away with it but you will notice that both these denominations disagree. ;-)