Community Pricing program ending this month!
Just got this in email...
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Wow! 2 weeks to get the CP price locked in!
I wonder if the resource has to 'start all over', or a CP bid = buy commitment. I suppose so.
I'm sure glad Faithlife let us know.
And thanks, Don!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Wow. How long has CP been a part of Logos?
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There are a lot of unanswered questions about it. For example, what a "successful" bid was in CP had something to do -- or at least that was the general understanding -- with some kind of mysterious algorithm. However, things that are still in CP are still in CP because they never reached that threshold. So how is a "successful bid" understood now when these things go into pre-pub?
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Got 500 error. Site got slower + slower, then 500'd out.
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I think I crashed it ... ordered all the Patrologaeia.
status.faithlife.com says all is well ... maybe they move CPs to a special secret server to limit good buys!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I checked with the team, and they've confirmed that "winning level" does NOT mean above the line, it means at or above the peak of the graph. So this is a great opportunity to get some CP products at a low price that looked like they'll never cross the line. Did anyone say Migne?
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I added a few CP’s and made sure the others I bid on were still there 👍
DAL
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Mark Barnes (Faithlife) said:
I checked with the team, and they've confirmed that "winning level" does NOT mean above the line, it means at or above the peak of the graph. So this is a great opportunity to get some CP products at a low price that looked like they'll never cross the line. Did anyone say Migne?
So if I currently have bids in that are higher than the peak, would it make sense for me to just lower my bid to the peak of the grap?
Does anyone know what happens to CP items after the sunset? Since they’re moved to prepub is it safe to say they’ll eventually be publishe?
I sincerely hope we get this one published soon: https://www.logos.com/product/16021/mormon-studies-collection0 -
Ooh. That's great, Mark. I don't intend to be a pest, but does that mean that Logos is committed to releasing everything in CP at some point? There are lots of things that never gained much traction. Also, I'd like to figure out a future budget.
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Thanks for this information, Mr. Barnes. I got the same email, and I am wondering, as someone who has not used pre-pub in a long time, when the products move to that program, we don't get charged for the product until it is about to be released with the option to back out until then if needed, correct? I ask as I have bids on all the Patrologiae collections that I would like to keep, but I certainly wouldn't be able to afford all of them charged at once.
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What happened to the countless German CP products? They all seem to have disappeared...
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Hi everyone, thank you for your posts. I will respond to as many as I can answering the questions you are raising regarding this change. We have long used the Community Pricing to gauge interest in demand for a variety of products that would be interesting to our users. We also have a similar process with our Pre-Pub products. Moving forward, we will be using this product type to launch new projects that would have historically been put up as a Community Pricing item. The hope is to simplify the experience of shopping on the website and streamline processes internally. I will be directly involved in the changeover process, so please don't hesitate to ask your questions and I will respond as I can!
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Lew Worthington said:
Ooh. That's great, Mark. I don't intend to be a pest, but does that mean that Logos is committed to releasing everything in CP at some point? There are lots of things that never gained much traction. Also, I'd like to figure out a future budget.
Hi Lew, there is no guarantee that a product will be produced. We will do all we can to produce what we can. As with all Pre-Pubs you would be warned prior to a product shipping to decide if you want to keep your bid in place.
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Michael Wood said:
Thanks for this information, Mr. Barnes. I got the same email, and I am wondering, as someone who has not used pre-pub in a long time, when the products move to that program, we don't get charged for the product until it is about to be released with the option to back out until then if needed, correct? I ask as I have bids on all the Patrologiae collections that I would like to keep, but I certainly wouldn't be able to afford all of them charged at once.
Hi Michael, you are correct, you will receive notification prior to any charges being made shortly before the product goes live.
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Are there any hidden gems in CP that I should know about?
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Just for hungry CP searchers, here's mine. I'm oriented to OL and the historians. Of the series, I'd 'bet' Strabo, maybe Levy, and LEB-Hebrew-Audio will be produced. I'd feel lucky if the Patrologia series ever saw the light of day (but who knows). Ditto Tregelles. But over the years, my best (later unaffordable) buys have be CPs.
Thesaurus Syriacus and Supplement (2 vols.) If you're Syriac adept (Robert Payne)
Geographers of the Roman Era (26 vols.) Strabo including greek text
Von Soden Greek New Testament (4 vols.) Always core to many greek discussions, but german; limited currently in Logos
An English–Greek Dictionary Another, aimed at classical greek, similar to Attic currently in Logos
Patrologia Syriaca (vols. 1–2) and Orientalis (vols. 1–14, 16) Patrologia's are often the only alternative (in Logos)
Patrologiae Cursus Completus: Series Graeca (167 vols.) Especially these; currently Logos has the more useful.
Patrologiae Cursus Completus: Series Latina (221 vols.) Again, Logos currently has the basics.
Lexham English Bible (LEB) with Audio Old Testament On the english side.
Samuel Prideaux Tregelles Collection (2 vols.) Both volumes classics from the 1800s.
Dictionary of Greek and Roman Geography (2 vols.) Another 1800s Smith volume; often useful for unusual locations
Livy's History of Rome (28 vols.) Livy and mainly Rome; latin included.
Latin Language and Culture Collection (18 vols.) Remains of Old Latin, my interest.Encyclopaedia Biblica (4 vols.) I have this hardcopy; articles are from the old 'greats' early 1900s.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Mitch seems to be a bit of a messaging issue here as your comment does not line up with impression given by Mark and also by the
two different emails I received about this. Why would you tell customers you are going to lock in prepubs
if they meet the criteria and now say it may not get produced? Your creating a uncertainty. Mark and the email are
saying bid now to lock in a great price and your saying steady the horses we
might not actually publish it anyway. It seems the new Logos hasn’t learnt from Faithlifes
past issues of marketing overstating the truth to tell a
good story if what you are saying is the case.
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Simon’s Brother said:
your comment does not line up with impression given by Mark
I won't be surprised, to see CPs go to Prepubs as 'Gathering Interest' (the low CP locked-price defeating the Prepub breakeven) ... and then deleted. But maybe I can hope.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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DMB said:Simon’s Brother said:
your comment does not line up with impression given by Mark
I won't be surprised, to see CPs go to Prepubs as 'Gathering Interest' (the low CP locked-price defeating the Prepub breakeven) ... and then deleted. But maybe I can hope.
Yes that’s the impression I get from Mitch’s comments but not from other communications.
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DMB said:Simon’s Brother said:
your comment does not line up with impression given by Mark
I won't be surprised, to see CPs go to Prepubs as 'Gathering Interest' (the low CP locked-price defeating the Prepub breakeven) ... and then deleted. But maybe I can hope.
Hi DMB, you are correct that these will be pushed over to the Gathering Interest category, but there are no plans to delete any. We will still need to gauge demand for any of the given resources but we do everything we can to lower the production cost barrier to allow as many resource as possible to get funded and produced.
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Simon’s Brother said:
Mitch seems to be a bit of a messaging issue here as your comment does not line up with impression given by Mark and also by the
two different emails I received about this. Why would you tell customers you are going to lock in prepubs
if they meet the criteria and now say it may not get produced? Your creating a uncertainty. Mark and the email are
saying bid now to lock in a great price and your saying steady the horses we
might not actually publish it anyway. It seems the new Logos hasn’t learnt from Faithlifes
past issues of marketing overstating the truth to tell a
good story if what you are saying is the case.
Hi Simon's Brother, we are committing to honoring/locking in the CP bid price which are historically lower than than a product in Pre-Pub or Pre-Order status. We aren't committing to produce all the resources in question immediately. When a product is funded and produced people who lock their pricing in on a Community Pricing bid will pay their bid price, not what the Pre-Pub will be at the time it is moved over. This is how the current system works for these type of resources.
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Mitch Snyder (Faithlife) said:
Hi DMB, you are correct that these will be pushed over to the Gathering Interest category, but there are no plans to delete any. We will still need to gauge demand for any of the given resources but we do everything we can to lower the production cost barrier to allow as many resource as possible to get funded and produced.
Mitch, thank you for being upfront. It's appreciated.
My 'delete' comment is only because I'm a crackerjacks statistician (tasty treat!). By and large, any prepub that doesn't 'take-off' within a few months of 'gathering interest', will be DOA. And outside some almost-there CPs, the new prepubs are going to be DOA.
The exception is when FL needs some package-fillers (not criticizing). Sounds like stocking stuffers.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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DMB said:
Mitch, thank you for being upfront. It's appreciated.
My 'delete' comment is only because I'm a crackerjacks statistician (tasty treat!). By and large, any prepub that doesn't 'take-off' within a few months of 'gathering interest', will be DOA. And outside some almost-there CPs, the new prepubs are going to be DOA.
The exception is when FL needs some package-fillers (not criticizing). Sounds like stocking stuffers.
Hi DMB, I don't see it as criticism! You are correct, historically we do see many of these type of resources stall out over time. Our job is to continue to push to find ways to lower production costs to allow more and more resources to get produced.
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Mitch,
My question is would you characterize this latest move by Logos to be a customer service optimizer or a cost saving measure or both or maybe even something other than I have labeled?
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.5 1TB SSD
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OK ... based on Mitch's comments (and my guesses), the best way to look at CPs about to move over, would be by 'Progress'. I picked up a few more. Poor Patrologaeia, I guess.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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If this represents "Progress" then will this market expand or contract or respond to demand?DMB said:the best way to look at CPs about to move over, would be by 'Progress'.
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.5 1TB SSD
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Beloved Amodeo said:
If this represents "Progress" then will this market expand or contract or respond to demand?
I suppose one could argue a plus ... CP was always a mystery to many. Prepub is like on Amazon. So, maybe a better presentation of the old CP resources.
But just my impression, both CP and PP had lost their luster years ago. The titles were more marginal? The savings, not really? Or Logos itself is shifting to a more 'soft-side' type of reader/purchaser.
Goodness, I remember the unbelievable buys on CP. Matthew was drumming up interest to 'put it over the top!'. And Logos' eagle eye, checking for sneaky CP cancels.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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DMB said:
my impression, both CP and PP had lost their luster years ago.
I agree CP has lost its relevance indeed new titles has speeded downhill and forum attention has likewise degraded. But, my interest is the program being sunsetted or is it being consolidated to increase demand for future growth?DMB said:I remember the unbelievable buys on CP.
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.5 1TB SSD
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I've come to understand CP as a sort of pre "pre-pub". CP resources were never purchased directly, they just moved up from CP to the pre-pub process. CP customers were given an early adopter discount. I view this as both a cost savings move and a simplification of the getting resources to market type of move. It will also weed out the resources that were never going to make it. Sounds like a smart move to me, reducing overlap. It's more of a move to or renaming of CP to "gathering interest"
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Overall good analysis. However, the highlighted comment is a huge advantage that appears to be in jeopardy after July 31st.Dale E Heath said:CP customers were given an early adopter discount.
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.5 1TB SSD
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Beloved Amodeo said:
Overall good analysis. However, the highlighted comment is a huge advantage that appears to be in jeopardy after July 31st.Dale E Heath said:CP customers were given an early adopter discount.
Yes, I've noticed that most of Vic's moves have been in the cost cutting direction. But, if it helps Logos survive and do well, I'm all for it. It's seems like the sales have been more often and pretty attractive.
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Beloved Amodeo said:
Mitch,
My question is would you characterize this latest move by Logos to be a customer service optimizer or a cost saving measure or both or maybe even something other than I have labeled?
Hi Beloved, there were a variety of reasons behind this decision. "All of the above" would probably be the safe answer.
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Simon’s Brother said:
Mitch seems to be a bit of a messaging issue here as your comment does not line up with impression given by Mark and also by the
two different emails I received about this. Why would you tell customers you are going to lock in prepubs
if they meet the criteria and now say it may not get produced?
We're encouraging you to lock in the price while you can. Locking in the price doesn't guarantee that the pre-pub will be produced, but it does guarantee that if it is produced, you'll get the lowest price.
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Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Correct me if wrong, but one may cancel the higher bid and select the lowest allowable bid currently as long as you place this bid before July 31st when the CP pricing ends.MJ. Smith said:Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.5 1TB SSD
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Beloved Amodeo said:
Correct me if wrong, but one may cancel the higher bid and select the lowest allowable bid currently as long as you place this bid before July 31st when the CP pricing ends.
True but I have better uses for my time if it is not necessary.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Years ago, the CP program offered a lot of great old books. Many of these now can be found as nice filler in Package Deals. But there's only so many good old books in the public domain. The fountain has dried out. RIP CP!
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