So Faithlife gets before a judge and jury.

The subject of husband and wife both using one copy of Logos has been around since day one. Question has the one person one license been tested in court? [With the jury knowing the price of the resources]?

Went to all books (resources) and sorted by high price

Eerdmans Ultimate Collection (1,193 Resources) $20,060.47

Zondervan Ultimate Collection (1,012 Resources) $15,086.93

It took me awhile to get to a listing of a single resource that might have several books such as a commentary set.

New International Commentary: Old and New Testament (49 vols.) $1,736.29

The Oxford Handbooks Religion Collection (26 vols.) $1,749.99

The Anchor Yale Bible Reference Library | AYBRL (47 vols.) $1,248.39

Old and New Testament, 39 vols. (The Complete Biblical Library | CBL) $1,033.99

Crossway Commentary Collection (59 vols.) $572.34

Eerdmans Catholic Collection (47 vols.) $387.11

[One thing that I do not know is the price that a library would pay for a hard copy of the above!]

So Faithlife gets before a judge and jury.

Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury.

The husband and wife Pastors of XYG church only bought one copy of [pick any from the above list ranging in price from almost $20,000 to only $400] and shared their use of the resource owning only one license to Faithlife programs. And used the resources in their cowritten sermons.

We demand that you force that husband and wife team of pastors to purchase a second license and a second copy of all resources that they used in their research.

So, what do you think the jury will return as its verdict?

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Comments

Don Awalt

Nope. Logos wins.

Do some legal searches on end-user licenses, enforceability, etc., you will find wording like this from legal expert web sites:

....Some legal scholars question whether end-user software licenses are legally enforceable. Most courts have ruled that they are valid, however, since a consumer can return the product for a refund if they refuse to accept the terms of the agreement. A federal law known as the Electronic Signatures in Global and International Commerce Act has specifically upheld the validity of electronic contracts.

Kevin S. Coy, OFS

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1268537#Comment_1268537

Nope. Logos wins.

So much for becoming one flesh.... [:)]

KSC

MJ. Smith

So, what do you think the jury will return as its verdict?

As a member of the jury, I would demand that the judge throw the lawyer out of court and declare a mistrial. This is worse logic than "have you quit beating your wife? Yes or NO. "

The actual question is do ethical pastors restrict their use to the rights they have purchased? if you believe that there are circumstances that permit use beyond the purchased rights, what are the circumstances and what are the limitations on them?

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1268555#Comment_1268555

I raise objection to the court and demand the case be thrown out.

The pastor in question was actually doing his husbandman duty in teaching his wife how to use his copy of Logos Software in the case he was to die and also being the case that the wife would be the inheritor of the estate which would include the Logos Software in question.

And given that the said pastor is a teacher of good ethical and moral honor and as such is dutifully legally qualified to teach the software that he uses, he was only teaching his wife just in case she wanted to purchase her own copy of the software before the pastor went to higher grounds or if he were to pass on to higher ground.

The pastor acted within ethical bounds and moral high grounds in teaching his wife.

The case should be dismissed and the lawyer should make public apology made to the pastor for demeaning his ethical and moral standards!

Edit: The lawyer should spend more time in the word of God and less time harassing good men who are teaching the word of God! [:D]

GregW

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1268560#Comment_1268560

I raise objection to the court and demand the case be thrown out.

The pastor in question was actually doing his husbandman duty in teaching his wife how to use his copy of Logos Software in the case he was to die and also being the case that the wife would be the inheritor of the estate which would include the Logos Software in question.

Alternatively, of course, the pastor might have been teaching her husband how to use the software.

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1268577#Comment_1268577

I raise objection to the court and demand the case be thrown out.

The pastor in question was actually doing his husbandman duty in teaching his wife how to use his copy of Logos Software in the case he was to die and also being the case that the wife would be the inheritor of the estate which would include the Logos Software in question.

Alternatively, of course, the pastor might have been teaching her husband how to use the software.

Aaah Yes, there is always the "woke" side of things! lol [8-|]

JBR

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1268593#Comment_1268593

@xnman, that's an inappropriate response. Name calling does not benefit the body of Christ. And, no, adding an "lol" does not mitigate the impact. The damage is done.

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1268623#Comment_1268623

@xnman, that's an inappropriate response. Name calling does not benefit the body of Christ. And, no, adding an "lol" does not mitigate the impact. The damage is done.

🤨 uh? 🤔

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1268625#Comment_1268625

🤨 uh? 🤔

Well, ok, there's considerable centuries old discussion on whether Junia was woke, or not woke. Of course, she wasn't dead either (at the time; another alternative). But the good apostle did discuss wives trying to lead their hubbies to life.

As you can see, woke-ability is in the eyes of the beholder. Personally, I enjoy lady pastors (and their hubbies).

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1268555#Comment_1268555

So, what do you think the jury will return as its verdict?

As a member of the jury, I would demand that the judge throw the lawyer out of court and declare a mistrial. This is worse logic than "have you quit beating your wife? Yes or NO. "

The actual question is do ethical pastors restrict their use to the rights they have purchased? if you believe that there are circumstances that permit use beyond the purchased rights, what are the circumstances and what are the limitations on them?

Or posed differently "How much theft should a minister engage in?" or "How much deceit should a minister engage in?" and in the same vein "which of a ministers agreements should they be allowed to violate"?

Or more simply "How much willful sin should a minister knowingly engage in?". If we "agree" to the terms and limitations of the EULA by our use, then wouldn't it be better to abide by what we agree to? However ridiculous and costly that might be; how much is ones integrity worth?

I care little for mans opinion, but I do care about God's judgement of things. Even if it could be successfully litigated in a court, who cares? We give our word on something, even if we regret it, we have to abide by it.

I'm not above putting my laptop in front of someone for a few minutes and being like "see how great logos is!?!". But thats different than installing it on their computer, or allowing unlimited use. you know? The former benefits Logos. The latter would not.

Before he was pushed out the door, my favorite salesman (Rusty Davidson) and I both benefited from me encouraging people to use Logos. Havent done much of that since though.

Ray Timmermans

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1268665#Comment_1268665

And then there's Apollos learning from whom? 🤔😁

John

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1268680#Comment_1268680

If we "agree" to the terms and limitations of the EULA by our use ....

Nobody reads those things. The longer they are, the less likely anybody read them before clicking "next". [;)]

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1268665#Comment_1268665

🤨 uh? 🤔

Well, ok, there's considerable centuries old discussion on whether Junia was woke, or not woke. Of course, she wasn't dead either (at the time; another alternative). But the good apostle did discuss wives trying to lead their hubbies to life.

As you can see, woke-ability is in the eyes of the beholder. Personally, I enjoy lady pastors (and their hubbies).

I thought woke was something that was invented in the mid 20th century and popularized in 2010? 🤪

DAL

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1268712#Comment_1268712

I thought woke was something that was invented in the mid 20th century and popularized in 2010?

You probably meant 'altered in meaning' ... Logos sells some good resources on the early Judaic development of 'woke' (revivication and/or resurrection), a new meaning at the time, which of course followed ... the strange event following sleep.

My application to Junia, while alive, would be a woke (in today's silly application). The church guys went so far as to change her name and TG her. Of course, after she died, she was 'woke' (depending on your theology).

Judging from James, 'woke' was the main event for early Christians (after the end-time got re-scheduled).

David Ames

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1268537#Comment_1268537

Nope. Logos wins.

Do some legal searches on end-user licenses, enforceability, etc., you will find wording like this from legal expert web sites:

....Some legal scholars question whether end-user software licenses are legally enforceable. Most courts have ruled that they are valid, however, since a consumer can return the product for a refund if they refuse to accept the terms of the agreement. A federal law known as the Electronic Signatures in Global and International Commerce Act has specifically upheld the validity of electronic contracts.

Often in a court of law, with a jury, the law is what the jury says it is. The person spent over $1000 and the company says that each of the other family members can not use it unless they buy their own copy also paying over $1000 ???? What is the jury going to say??

When the company says that the Software is free!!

Oh by the way does the Library also have to buy a separate copy for each member???

Does Amazon forbid you to hand your wife your Kindle reader to read the book you bought for Kindle.

David Ames

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269972#Comment_1269972

Is there a Liberian on this thread that deals with religious books? [The same ones that we buy from Faithlife.]

How does the price we pay compare to the price a Library with 2000 members pays for the same book?

Do all Libraries pay the same price or do they pay so much per member?

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269972#Comment_1269972

Often in a court of law, with a jury, the law is what the jury says it is.

A jury had to let a house breaker go free when the Prosecution insisted on a charge of Burglary and they could not produce clear evidence of a claimed theft! That was one very grateful person, who could easily have been convicted on a charge of multiple Breaking and Entering on the day!. A less forgiving jury might have convicted on the Burglary charge!

When the company says that the Software is free!!

Oh by the way does the Library also have to buy a separate copy for each member???

Does Amazon forbid you to hand your wife your Kindle reader to read the book you bought for Kindle

If the Prosecutor is not "on the ball" the Defence might get away with those claims. But what do you mean by the second point?

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269975#Comment_1269975

Do all Libraries pay the same price or do they pay so much per member?

For your consideration:

https://www.wiley.com/learn/librarysolutions/online-books-purchase.html

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269972#Comment_1269972

Often in a court of law, with a jury, the law is what the jury says it is.

You are talking about jury nullification I assume? The highest estimate I can find is 3-4% at least partial jury nullification by an organization advocating for jury nullification.

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269988#Comment_1269988

I am now confused... which doesn't take much to confuse me.... Is it wrong for me to have a big screen monitor and have bible study with my family.... and in that process have them use my computer to find a verse that they are talking about in the study?

Note... I'm the one logged into Logos... but in the above example... they use my Logos to find scripture.... would you call this unethical? Stealing? Against Eula?

Edit: Another example.... so my wife and I are in a class... and both are using my phone to do searches, etc. Can I let her use my phone to do this?

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1270015#Comment_1270015

I am now confused... which doesn't take much to confuse me.... Is it wrong for me to have a big screen monitor and have bible study with my family.... and in that process have them use my computer to find a verse that they are talking about in the study?

No - it is a nicety that would be a waste of time thinking about. They are not using the program for independent research and they are acting as your direct agents.

Note... I'm the one logged into Logos... but in the above example... they use my Logos to find scripture.... would you call this unethical? Stealing? Against Eula?

No - there is no implication that the results of a study or search should not be shared. I think you are putting to finer definition on the word 'Use'.

Edit: Another example.... so my wife and I are in a class... and both are using my phone to do searches, etc. Can I let her use my phone to do this?

Yes you can. And you may do this for all the above reasons.

End User agreements are there to stop abuse not to limit reasonable use,.

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1270018#Comment_1270018

....

End User agreements are there to stop abuse not to limit reasonable use,.

Thanks Mike!

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1270022#Comment_1270022

....

End User agreements are there to stop abuse not to limit reasonable use,.

I remember years ago when Libronix only needed a code to be unlocked. I found a website where people would share the codes to unlock Libronix Silver and Gold and the “Pastors” taking advantage of that claimed what a blessing it was for others to share the codes so they could enjoy a good library for free 😂 Needless to say, I reported the website. Whether Logos cracked down on them, I don’t know, but one of their employees went in the website to investigate what was going on there.

DAL