Christian Alexander

I have a problem. I come here almost daily to learn more about how to use Logos, watch for new resources, suggest them, etc. I've been using Logos and the forum for 20 years.

But recently, newish user Christian Alexander posts *multiple* times daily asking others, in effect, to do his research for him. It verges on spam. It discourages me from hanging around. I imagine I can't be the only one feeling this way, but I don't know what to do about it.

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Christian Alexander

Hello there. I hate to be this way and I hope I do not upset anyone so that they quit using the Logos forum. I’m so sorry this is discouraging you. I have cerebral palsy and many other neurological and cardiac issues. I’ll keep my posts down to less than 3 per day. Iron sharpens iron (Proverbs 27:17). Let’s keep winning the race and keep God’s will in all we do. God bless.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269314#Comment_1269314

One possibility I have been tossing around in my mind, is to have a Faithlife group for Christian to ask his questions in when they are not software specific.

Another option would be Faithlife PM's with individuals trading off who answers his questions.

scooter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269319#Comment_1269319

I am OK with his questions here, given his challenges.

But, what if 5 people start asking 3 questions a day. A multiplexed situation would be too much.

Lynden O. Williams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269319#Comment_1269319

One possibility I have been tossing around in my mind, is to have a Faithlife group for Christian to ask his questions in when they are not software specific.

Another option would be Faithlife PM's with individuals trading off who answers his questions.

Like your thinking MJ.

Don Awalt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269322#Comment_1269322

How about just a new forum (like General, Suggestions, etc.), maybe "How do I?", where anyone who just wants help like this? It would be nice to have a solution that's scaleable and welcoming. What I don't have the answer to is many forum posts are "How do I?" types, not just Christians - having trouble figuring out a search, why does this syntax fail, how do I find the lemma, etc. etc. - not sure how to separate its function...but I like the idea of a forum so maybe many could chip in and help from time to time yet not see them if focused on something else.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269319#Comment_1269319

One possibility I have been tossing around in my mind, is to have a Faithlife group for Christian to ask his questions in when they are not software specific.

I can see Ben's frustration ... if one reads back, I proposed that Christian was multiple students, in a dorm! Sorry, Christian.

But knowing the game plan (which we have at church too), I see the questions as 'today's Logos challenge'. Some easy, some technical violations, some take thinking. Today's on 'God of Heaven' was a toughie (if familiar with ancient writings). Couldn't quickly pin that one; which gods.

ADDED: I 'still' can't believe a masters program, that demands so many disperate subjects. It sort of invites superficial regurgitation, over and over. Not Christian, necessarily ... I assume most of the students.

Tony Walker

Like most things in life, I don't get as worked up as I used to, and I can see both sides. But, my gut goes with the post's spirit. The goal is to provide a place for nerds like us to find out the uttermost details of how the software works.

So, I understand why someone would want to ask those same people the questions they are doing for school. Those people spends 1,000’s of dollars (a year?) on study material. Of course, you'd love to ask them.

But, the forums are for software not research. I'm sure there are more forums online that are focused on answering questions like that. And since not every Bible scholar uses Logos, you are actually limiting yourself if you are ONLY asking research questions in a Logos forum. I have googled some of the questions asked on here and have found similar or word-for-word questions asked elsewhere on the internet. The username was different, so perhaps it's students in the same class going to where they know to go to get ’help’ on finding the answers.

So, there are other places you can go. If Logos was the only place to find biblical answers that would be one thing. But it isn't. When a theological question is asked in the thread title, there might be a few who respond, but I imagine some feel like the OP. and felling like that, it likely causes them to interact with the forums less, not more. And, the forum being used as something it is not intended causes the forum to (by some) not be used much or at all.

That isn't to say I haven't giggled at a thread before. I'm laughing now at one of the most mic-drop answers on here a few years ago or so. someone asked about in person vs virtual online church. Something like that. And the posts were saying something about this isn't a debate place this is a software place. And someone responded "Open the software, search "one another" and ask yourself how many of those you can do without being face to face." checkmate, lol.

But seriously, we live in a world of hurt, suffering, disability, grief, etc where compassion can go a long way. But I would also say that Logos has been very compassion even allowing the post to go up. Strict forums would have banned someone long, long ago for multiple instances. On Macrumors I got a reprimand from a mod last week for simply replying to a post ’lol.’ The mod removed my post, and told me that my comment goes again the policy of one word frivolous post that take away from meaningful discussion of Apple topics. The forum could go down that road if it wanted to. But I would imagine it wouldn't.

So my two cents would be to keep the topic of these forums on… software… and take advantage of the many places for research and debate.

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269326#Comment_1269326

Like most things in life, I don't get as worked up as I used to, and I can see both sides. But, my gut goes with the post's spirit. The goal is to provide a place for nerds like us to find out the uttermost details of how the software works.

I can very much relate to what you expressed. Thanks for the summary.

Christian Alexander

If someone would tell me the other forums to go to I would do so. My classes are crazy and a lot of my degree classes are basically simple expellination of facts and research. Right now in Bible study someone asked me the differences between God of heaven versus Host of heaven that is my asking.

Beloved Amodeo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269330#Comment_1269330

For the most part, I ignore him and let the MVP's and other power users deal with him. To engage encourages what I see as abuse.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269334#Comment_1269334

For the most part, I ignore him and let the MVP's and other power users deal with him. To engage encourages what I see as abuse.

I guess I've benefitted over the years, from other people's questions. Which books to target. I used to post, regarding books that offer specialized discussion (ANE), but the forum's more recently become largely a search-syntax problem, or the software blew up. Or a good sale, of course.

Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269324#Comment_1269324

How about just a new forum (like General, Suggestions, etc.), maybe "How do I?", where anyone who just wants help like this? It would be nice to have a solution that's scaleable and welcoming. What I don't have the answer to is many forum posts are "How do I?" types, not just Christians - having trouble figuring out a search, why does this syntax fail, how do I find the lemma, etc. etc. - not sure how to separate its function...but I like the idea of a forum so maybe many could chip in and help from time to time yet not see them if focused on something else.

I like this idea!

Beloved Amodeo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269339#Comment_1269339

For the most part, I ignore him and let the MVP's and other power users deal with him. To engage encourages what I see as abuse.

I guess I've benefitted over the years, from other people's questions. Which books to target. I used to post, regarding books that offer specialized discussion (ANE), but the forum's more recently become largely a search-syntax problem, or the software blew up. Or a good sale, of course.

Denise, I'm going to be silent on this, as I largely ignore his posts I see no redeeming value, but I could be wrong, this just goes for me.

Edit: The problem isn't so much as content as it is volume.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269343#Comment_1269343

Edit: The problem isn't so much as content as it is volume.

Maybe combine questions on a single post per day? Another forum would mean people then post in both, as they often do now.

I almost never ask questions on the forum; I don't need the criticism, comments, etc, or the no-answer (eg like Mr Davidson). I either figure it out, or don't use it.

Beloved Amodeo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269347#Comment_1269347

Maybe combine questions on a single post per day

Still too many questions. The forums should be about give and take. You should strike a balance and give as much as you take. I'm sensitive to health problems, but they shouldn't justify bad taste. Improve your economy, this would better your acceptability.

Gregory Lawhorn

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269319#Comment_1269319

One possibility I have been tossing around in my mind, is to have a Faithlife group for Christian to ask his questions in when they are not software specific.

Another option would be Faithlife PM's with individuals trading off who answers his questions.

This is an excellent idea; some of us would feel far freer to answer theological questions if it was in a place where they were permitted and encouraged.

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269347#Comment_1269347

I do not mean to offend, far from it. I would like to help but I'm not sure that supplying Christian with all the answers is the way to do that. I have posted about this wondering if the ones that answer Christian is doing his work for him. And I wondered what is being enabled in this helping of Christian.

It seems sometimes that he asks a question and people reply with 3 or 4 books to look at. With me, that would take some time to go through those books. But Christian seems to keep asking questions about the subject.

We learn from doing research. That's part of studying. Getting other people to do our research for us hinders that process. It makes me wonder what Christian will do when he's no longer in school? And what did he learn while in school... just ask questions?

I do think there are questions a person needs to ask... but with Christian, I wonder if he studies at all or does he just ask questions instead. I wonder also if he could use something like "Google Bard" or one of the other "A.I." sites to find find a lot of his answers?

And maybe, I wish I had a forum when I was in school, to supply me with all the answers???

I wish Christian well.

Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269355#Comment_1269355

This is an excellent idea; some of us would feel far freer to answer theological questions if it was in a place where they were permitted and encouraged.

This may be why FL would not start a new group. Christian is note debating. He is asking for resources. I find it interesting and sometimes purchase a resource as a result. Sometimes I ignore his posts as I ignore most posts. That is the way to deal with it. I, however, would not want to see him stop posting his questions.

Beloved Amodeo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269357#Comment_1269357

I do not mean to offend, far from it. I would like to help but I'm not sure that supplying Christian with all the answers is the way to do that. I have posted about this wondering if the ones that answer Christian is doing his work for him. And I wondered what is being enabled in this helping of Christian.

It seems sometimes that he asks a question and people reply with 3 or 4 books to look at. With me, that would take some time to go through those books. But Christian seems to keep asking questions about the subject.

We learn from doing research. That's part of studying. Getting other people to do our research for us hinders that process. It makes me wonder what Christian will do when he's no longer in school? And what did he learn while in school... just ask questions?

I do think there are questions a person needs to ask... but with Christian, I wonder if he studies at all or does he just ask questions instead. I wonder also if he could use something like "Google Bard" or one of the other "A.I." sites to find find a lot of his answers?

And maybe, I wish I had a forum when I was in school, to supply me with all the answers???

I wish Christian well.

I agree. Is there a solution, xnman?

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269360#Comment_1269360

I do not mean to offend, far from it. I would like to help but I'm not sure that supplying Christian with all the answers is the way to do that. I have posted about this wondering if the ones that answer Christian is doing his work for him. And I wondered what is being enabled in this helping of Christian.

It seems sometimes that he asks a question and people reply with 3 or 4 books to look at. With me, that would take some time to go through those books. But Christian seems to keep asking questions about the subject.

We learn from doing research. That's part of studying. Getting other people to do our research for us hinders that process. It makes me wonder what Christian will do when he's no longer in school? And what did he learn while in school... just ask questions?

I do think there are questions a person needs to ask... but with Christian, I wonder if he studies at all or does he just ask questions instead. I wonder also if he could use something like "Google Bard" or one of the other "A.I." sites to find find a lot of his answers?

And maybe, I wish I had a forum when I was in school, to supply me with all the answers???

I wish Christian well.

I agree. Is there a solution, xnman?

Maybe someone can suggest some "A.I" sites for Christian to use???

Beloved Amodeo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269362#Comment_1269362

I'm done after this parody. This is what he's doing.

What was the role of the church during the civil rights era? How can I use Logos to suggest books on this subject?

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269364#Comment_1269364

I'm done after this parody. This is what he's doing.

What was the role of the church during the civil rights era? How can I use Logos to suggest books on this subject?

I agree.

ReformedDoc

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269360#Comment_1269360

I understand that he has some limited abilities but at the same time when you are working on a degree, the person getting the degree should be doing the actual research. Part of the learning process is the research, that is like having a research assistant doing all the research, then you put it all together and turn it into the Professor.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269324#Comment_1269324

How about just a new forum (like General, Suggestions, etc.), maybe "How do I?", where anyone who just wants help like this? It would be nice to have a solution that's scaleable and welcoming.

A new "How do I?" forum is much too broad. A forum for theological queries is needed as it would not be governed by the current Forum Guidelines and would attract only those interested in contributing (and remove the current burden in General).

What I don't have the answer to is many forum posts are "How do I?" types, not just Christians - having trouble figuring out a search, why does this syntax fail, how do I find the lemma, etc. etc. - not sure how to separate its function...but I like the idea of a forum so maybe many could chip in and help from time to time yet not see them if focused on something else.

The current forums (General + App-centric ones) are adequate (intended!) for software/book queries, so it should not be an issue that you do not have answers - just keep asking - and I hope I have not misunderstood you on this.

Kevin S. Coy, OFS

I imagine I can't be the only one feeling this way, but I don't know what to do about it.

Yep. I'm not a big contributor to the forums and I come to learn about Logos/Verbum. And the last thing I want to do is get in the way of any one wanting to learn more. But, why isn't Christian asking all these questions to his professors, teachers, advisors, classmates, etc.? Seems to me, if I am being given an assignment...I would ask the individual giving me that assignment for clarification and guidance. I guess that is what I would do.

Christian - you are in my prayers.

God bless,

KSC

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269376#Comment_1269376

But, why isn't Christian asking all these questions to his professors, teachers, advisors, classmates, etc.? Seems to me, if I am being given an assignment

He is doing distance learning - the amount of support the educational institutions can provide is likely variable ...

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269366#Comment_1269366

the person getting the degree should be doing the actual research

I suspect his does. But he has short term memory problems. A friend had a son born with severe short-term memory problems. In college, one of the accommodations required was that someone copied assignments and test date off the board - he honestly can not look at a blackboard and copy the content onto a note pad.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269362#Comment_1269362

Maybe someone can suggest some "A.I" sites for Christian to use?

This has been done.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269350#Comment_1269350

The forums should be about give and take.

Christian has recently made a serious effort to help others when he knows the answers.

Beloved Amodeo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269383#Comment_1269383

MJ. and Dave, I know I said I was done, but I have a novel and I hope helpful idea. Why not give the forum participant the ability to block any other participant they do not want to receive content from?

Is that something that can be easily accomplished? If so make it so.

Edit: It should be reversible.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269387#Comment_1269387

How many are old enough to remember when confronted with difficult situations like this, a Christian's response was "what would Jesus do?"

Beloved Amodeo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269389#Comment_1269389

How many are old enough to remember when confronted with difficult situations like this, a Christian's response was "what would Jesus do?"

You mean die for him?

ReformedDoc

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269390#Comment_1269390

How many are old enough to remember when confronted with difficult situations like this, a Christian's response was "what would Jesus do?"

You mean die for him?

[:O]

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269394#Comment_1269394

I believe Jesus always tried to help people be better....

Beloved Amodeo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269405#Comment_1269405

I believe Jesus always tried to help people be better....

I have repented, where I could and I hope I lent genuine assistance where I was at first repelled.

Bill Anderson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269408#Comment_1269408

Aside from answering one of Christian's questions by saying I couldn't help thinking that I was being asked to help with his latest assignment, I have stayed quiet. I thank Ben for bringing this issue up. I thank Logos for letting this thread go on. I thank MJ who has shown a world of compassion for Christian's health issues and answered him when at times no one else did or would. I thank those who have suggested possible solutions.

I share the concern that if one is doing master's level work (or undergraduate work for that matter), he or she should do the work. This is especially true if you are preparing for the ministry. I am sure many of us could recount counseling sessions in which the issues facing our parishoners exceeded our knowledge and ability. It's at those times that we go back to the text and wrestle with God over the issue. At many times like these there aren't people we can talk with about it, especially when it comes to confidential matters. So we must fall back on our training and into the arms of our loving God who knows all things and ask for grace that God will use use in spite of what we do not know.

This has reminded me of when I was a seminary student. I was assigned in a preaching class to prepare and deliver a sermon to my classmates on an obscure passage in the book of Zechariah. I tried to exegete the passage on my own using the tools and knowledge I had and ... my sermon totally flopped. I so did not get the passage. I still don't get it! As I reflect on it now, I still cannot laugh about it because at the time it was so painful to hear the reaction of my professor. I am thankful that the Lord loves us even when we do not understand his Word. Actually, he pities us because he knows our limits (Psalm 103:13-14).

Maybe I could have learned something from Christian back then by asking more questions than I did. I truly appreciate his inquisitiveness and hunger to learn especially in the face of battling health issues that I do not face.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269413#Comment_1269413

Look, Christian is between terms, trying to get ahead of the game for the classes of the next term. There has been a pattern of more questions between terms. I'll give it some thought overnight and have him direct some questions to Faithlife and have them appear on the forums only when he doesn't get a satisfactory answer. We'll see what a good balance is between some people choosing to ignore his posts and diverting his posts.

John

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269321#Comment_1269321

But, what if 5 people start asking 3 questions a day.

Ok i noticed you didn't use a question mark, but thats STILL your first question [:)]

scooter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269433#Comment_1269433

But, what if 5 people start asking 3 questions a day.

Ok i noticed you didn't use a question mark, but thats STILL your first question

Good one, John. I need to edit what I write before publishing? <<. Here my declarative sentence has a '?' at the end to indicate up-talk. Wink.

Thrice I tried to add an emoji, but it wouldn't dance. Hence the 'wink.'

Justin Gatlin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269362#Comment_1269362

I made a Faithlife group for miscellaneous questions (a quick search didn't turn up any that were a good fit): Ask Anything.That way, anyone who wants to can ask or answer theological questions and it won't clutter the main forum. We can keep the discussions here to ones that are actually about the software but still stick to one Faithlife account.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269472#Comment_1269472

I've had a nice trip down memory lane of people with differences integrated into our church with, unfortunately, some fails ... people with severe disabilities who looked completely normal and, therefore, the congregation didn't understand to make allowances. Before Justin's post, I was going to propose a two pronged approach - one was that when we answered questions we were better at sticking to Logos answers e.g. "Lord of heaven" vs. "Hosts of heaven" - referral to the two entries in Factbook is sufficient as are topic searches, topic guides ... and two that the outside of Logos questions be prefaced with his initials and OT (CAOT) so they can easily be skipped.

And to put things in perspective, I recall a mother speaking at her 22-year-old-son's funeral, finally speaking of the difficulties when her friends were discussing what colleges their sons had gotten into, how she couldn't say "my son got a new piece of red yarn today. His joy was infectious".

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269479#Comment_1269479

And to put things in perspective, I recall a mother speaking at her 22-year-old-son's funeral, finally speaking of the difficulties when her friends were discussing what colleges their sons had gotten into, how she couldn't say "my son got a new piece of red yarn today. His joy was infectious".

Yesterday was not easy to watch.

Justin Gatlin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1269479#Comment_1269479

Before Justin's post, I was going to propose a two pronged approach - one was that when we answered questions we were better at sticking to Logos answers e.g. "Lord of heaven" vs. "Hosts of heaven" - referral to the two entries in Factbook is sufficient as are topic searches, topic guides ... and two that the outside of Logos questions be prefaced with his initials and OT (CAOT) so they can easily be skipped.
And to put things in perspective, I recall a mother speaking at her 22-year-old-son's funeral, finally speaking of the difficulties when her friends were discussing what colleges their sons had gotten into, how she couldn't say "my son got a new piece of red yarn today. His joy was infectious".

Your idea might be better. I was just trying to solve the problem and end what I felt was largely an unedifying conversation (not your posts).