New Insights Sidebar on the web app
Today we've launched a beta version of a new Insights sidebar on the web app. It's available in all Bibles.
The idea is to (optionally) bring the most useful content from your datasets and library directly into the Bible panel. At the moment, that's just a study bible and a commentary, but we're working on adding new content, too.
We'd love your feedback on this:
- Is it helpful?
- Can you see yourself or others using it?
- What changes would you make?
- What additional information would you like to see?
- Is this worth bringing to desktop or mobile?
Like experimental search, your feedback will determine whether this feature goes away or gets enhanced!
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- Is it helpful?
- Can you see yourself or others using
- What changes would you make?
- What additional information would you like to see?
- Is this worth bringing to desktop or mobile?
- Que mudanças você faria?
- Que informações adicionais gostaria de ver?
- Vale a pena trazer isso para desktop ou mobile?
- We can develop faster on the web than we can on desktop, because desktop is bigger and more complex.
- We can iterate and improve much more quickly on the web app. We deploy improvements to the web app every day, but no one wants their desktop app updating every day, so on desktop, there's usually about a six-week delay between writing code and having it used by our customers.
- Users can beta test features on the web app without formally joining a beta program, or without taking risks with their main Logos install. We love our desktop beta testers, but they're not representative of our whole user base. So if we want "ordinary" users to test something for us, we need to put it on the web app.
- I miss a general setting to turn off this sidebar as a matter of course for all resources.
- The information that is displayed is too little to examine. An option to scroll down to read more would be helpful.
- The sidebar has the potential to quickly display several predefined commentaries, but there is only one study Bible and only one commentary that can be selected. And the study bible can't even be turned off and vise versa.
- Is it helpful: Not really - nothing new that's not already accessible.
- Can you see yourself (I can't speak for others) using it? No.
- What changes would you make? It would not open automatically.
- What info? None.
- Is it worth bringing? No.
- Philology.
- Archaeology.
- Commentaries.
- ...
- Philology.
- Archaeology.
- Commentaries.
- ...
I love it! Definitely a keeper - at least for the desktops. Having commentaries that scroll with my reading is a fantastic idea - many thanks!
I don't see the way to add additional commentaries - it would be nice to have 4 to view.
I'm not sure about on mobiles - I'll get back to you.
Thanks again and God Bless,
Matt
Having commentaries that scroll with my reading is a fantastic idea - many thanks!
You know we already have this with linked set, on the desktop at least.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Having commentaries that scroll with my reading is a fantastic idea - many thanks!You know we already have this with linked set, on the desktop at least.
Thank MJ, as I mentioned here a couple of years ago, this doesn't work in the way you suggest. It is a poor experience if you want the commentary to follow the text, the other way around is fine though!
as I mentioned here a couple of years ago, this doesn't work in the way you suggest.
I understand what you mean. Because I understand where the milestone tags are placed and what drives "current location" (which I learned recently), the linking works as I expect it to abd I didn't notice any change here ... I'll have to play around with it a bit more.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
I love it! Definitely a keeper - at least for the desktops. Having commentaries that scroll with my reading is a fantastic idea - many thanks!
I don't see the way to add additional commentaries - it would be nice to have 4 to view.
I'm not sure about on mobiles - I'll get back to you.
Thanks again and God Bless,
Matt
I like this!
We'd love your feedback on this:
Yes and yes! When I want to study in-depth, I have my own layout already set up or, as others have suggested, use the passage guide. However, I don't always want or need to do study at that level. Sometimes I'm just curious about a passage and would like to see a few "insights." This looks like a convenient and easy way to do that.
Have a button to send the present passage to the passage guide for more in-depth study.
Additional types of resources I would use for a casual study: cross references, a Bible dictionary like LBD keyed to key terms, something like the Dictionary of Bible Themes, again keyed. I don't know if that's too much to ask or if it could be done without overcluttering the panel.
Please bring to desktop at least. While I like what all you've done with the web app, I rarely have need to use it. I don't see that changing anytime soon.
Tenha um botão para enviar a presente passagem para o guia de passagem para um estudo mais aprofundado.
R= isso já consigo fazer clicando no texto principal da Bíblia (na lateral esquerda)
Tipos adicionais de recursos que eu usaria para um estudo casual: referências cruzadas, um dicionário bíblico como LBD chaveado para termos-chave, algo como o Dicionário de Temas Bíblicos, novamente chaveado. Não sei se isso é pedir demais ou se poderia ser feito sem sobrecarregar o painel.
R= algumas dessas coisas já consigo fazer clicando no texto bíblico. Ele me dá várias opções de buscas elementares.
Por favor, traga para a área de trabalho, pelo menos. Embora eu goste do que você fez com o aplicativo web, raramente tenho necessidade de usá-lo. Não vejo isso mudando tão cedo.
R= seria interessante mesmo.
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I’d like to be able to change
I originally missed that as well - you can already do that from the change bar on the card.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Insights sidebar
Hi Mark,
When this is all built out (e.g. with the additions suggested above, Bible dictionary, cross references, etc), how is it different than the current Bible Explorer? I can see:
- Insights is part of the window (right sidebar) while BE is a separate skinny window;
- Insights expands and displays just a few resources while BE (like Passage Guide) still lists out many resources and you need to click to see the content;
- Insights will probably still end up having fewer sections than BE.
Have I missed anything? Aren't they conceptually basically the same thing, just a slightly different implementation?
Aren't they conceptually basically the same thing, just a slightly different implementation?
Conceptually they're similar.
Apart from the fact that Insights is much easier to find and turn on, the most important difference is that Explorer links you to useful content, whereas Insights brings the content (or most of it, at least) directly into the sidebar. It's more glanceable.
We're also planning to bring some new content into Insights that isn't currently available in Explorer.
It's possible that if we bring Insights to desktop, we might deprecate Explorer so there aren't two very similar tools. If we did that, is there anything you'd especially miss or want to see copied across to Insights?
It's possible that if we bring Insights to desktopI prefer having control of my layout rather than having a default feature on the desktop. I don't mind its presence on the app to test its utility and maybe from there moving to mobile as it gains acceptance and proves itself useful.
My overall impression is, meh.
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.4 1TB SSD
rather than having a default feature on the desktop
I see it as essential on the desktop as the leader is apt to be working from a laptop and needs to be able to replicate the participants' experience on mobile or phone on a screen... not a duplication but the same information in a similar format. As it is a side panel option (along with translate) I don't see it as having any impact on desktop users who don't need it.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
we might deprecate Explorer so there aren't two very similar tools.
What am I missing ... I only see one shared section
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
What am I missing ... I only see one shared section
One shared section at the moment. If there are other useful sections in Explorer (cross-references has been mentioned a few times), we might bring those across too.
I like it!
Have we seen features added to web first before? Besides the new search-experiment? I'd like to see Logos as a desktop or mobile first, performance on the web just isn't there (at all). Please invest most resources on the native apps, and keep the web-client as an aside. Speed is all we need.
Have we seen features added to web first before? Besides the new search-experiment? I'd like to see Logos as a desktop or mobile first, performance on the web just isn't there (at all). Please invest most resources on the native apps, and keep the web-client as an aside. Speed is all we need.
Most new features we plan to bring to all three platforms. In the past, we've started with desktop, before bringing them to the web later. At the moment, we're sometimes going to switch that order. That's because:
So where we're exploring a new space, it's likely that it will come to the web app first, so you all can test it out as we're building it and let us know what you think. Your input will make a significant difference to the eventual shape of the feature (and even whether we release it at all). In the past, there have been times when we've received great feedback from desktop beta users, but it's been too late to act on, and the improvement hasn't been made.
Of course, there will be other times when improvements come to desktop or mobile first, especially when it's clear to everyone what needs to improve, and we don't need to test it.
In this new world, there may also be times when we remove beta features from the web app after testing. Once we've learned all we can, we may take the feature down to rebuild parts of it before formally re-launching it later.
Good day Mark can you say on what platform the passage guide will be quicker to get new feature, like the cross reference using the treasury of scripture, biblical people and places and systematic theology, as I am limited to mobile and tablet only don’t have laptop or desktop. So can only use web app also. So we on mobile cant make use of logos like desktop. So example the systematic theology we cant make use in passage guide so I don’t see a need to get it on logos if it only works as normal reading book. So for me it’s the same to get in a physical book instead of logos.
Good day Mark can you say on what platform the passage guide will be quicker to get new feature, like the cross reference using the treasury of scripture, biblical people and places and systematic theology, as I am limited to mobile and tablet only don’t have laptop or desktop. So can only use web app also. So we on mobile cant make use of logos like desktop. So example the systematic theology we cant make use in passage guide so I don’t see a need to get it on logos if it only works as normal reading book. So for me it’s the same to get in a physical book instead of logos.
We'd love for the Passage Guide to be equivalent across all our platforms, because we know how useful it is. We're hoping to be able to make some improvements to the Cross References section of the Passage Guide on mobile and web in the next few months. Other improvements may take us longer, but it's good to hear they would be valued.
I don’t like it. It’s something that I have to turn off every time. Takes up space.
Thanks for the feedback. It might take a few weeks, but we'll make sure that the sidebar remembers that it has been toggled off, so you don't have to do it more than once.
Thank you for the insights feature - while it's similar to linking, it makes the process seem "easier" to glance while reading. I would definitely use this feature and would ask that you add sections for cross references and Lexicon if you are considering future adaptations. I think it's worth bringing to desktop, but i'm not sure about mobile.
Hi- I'm sure it's useful but personally I'd suggest that it be truly optional. As it is, it occupies space on my reading screen every time I launch a Bible passage and it's obstructive to me. I would like to have the whole screen be for the passage, as it was, and be able to pull up these study references in my own time. It's actually getting in my way now because it takes up half the screen. I guess others would use it, I have looked at it and don't find it helpful. If it must stay, please let it just be a tab that shows up, not something that automatically loads and takes up half of what I'm trying to read. I love this app! Thanks.
I like it alot. When I need a quick insight from one of my commonly used resources, I don't have to link the resource to my Bible and have it scroll with me. It's not big, it's not in the way, and it provides quick hits from two of my most commonly used resources. Great tool. Can't wait to see it built out!
I didn't really know how I felt about this feature at first especially considering it cost me some screen real-estate (before I realized it can be closed out and re-expanded quite easily), however, I've found it to be more and more useful to me and I actually utilize regularly and love it now! I don't always know what resources to pull for my reading so I love the suggestions it presents to me and I appreciate the drop down menu to select other commentaries & study guides from my library if I'm not exactly happy with the ones it suggests. Although I do have my favorites, this feature has helped me discover other resources that I benefit from just as much as my favorites... if not more! It's these types of thoughtful features that keeps me as a faithful Logos subscribed customer.
My strong advice/feedback would be to keep this feature. The 'insights' tab is small enough and out of the way as to not clutter the the reading panel or desktop view at all whatsoever. Please don't kill a good and useful feature.
Thanks in advance!
Exactly. Due to limitations with the mobile app, I predominately use the web app on my Chromebook. That it automatically pops up is frustrating. The sidebar is already large, Insights takes up even more column space that I'd prefer to actually be my Bible.
The web app already has the "Open a Commentary" button which I use, and is more useful than the snippets provide by the Insights bar.
I love this idea! "Insight" has tremendous potential, but let's focus on its development. As a long-time user of Logos products, I believe we should avoid making it like an ordinary commentary or study bible that scrolls with your bible. Instead, let's harness the power of AI to revolutionize the experience.
Currently, with thousands of resources in our libraries, it's challenging to access and utilize all of them when preparing a message. Prioritizing resources may leave some underutilized, limiting our exploration of diverse perspectives. Here's the game-changing solution: let's power "Insight" with AI.
When working on a topic, we can input key details like the main purpose of the series and relevant scriptures and select a message category (teaching, preaching, counselling, personal devotion, etc.). "Insight" will intelligently curate the most relevant resources from our library into at least three categories: commentary, monograph, and preaching resources. By doing so, it ensures that every resource is maximized and we discover more than just what we already know.
With AI-driven curation, we'll uncover valuable insights we might have otherwise missed. This will elevate the potential of "Insight" to a whole new level. I am eager to engage in further discussions to make our beloved bible study tool even better. Let's keep and enhance "Insight" – it can be a game changer!
Feel free to contact me to explore this further. Together, we can make our bible study experience richer and more meaningful.
let's harness the power of AI to revolutionize the experience
We're currently experimenting with a bunch of AI-assisted features. AI-assisted search is already available for testing, and it recently gained a summarization feature. But we're looking at several other AI-assisted features too – although whether that work will converge with the work on the Insights sidebar, it's too early to tell.
experimenting with a bunch of AI-assisted features
The Artifact news app just added a bunch of AI text-to-speech voices and they sound amazingly natural and engaging (as opposed to the still-mechanical, monotonous voices available to iOS / Logos desktop).
Any chance Logos will look into these natural voices to the mobile and desktop apps?
Do I understand this feature correct. It will only appear when there is a passage in the Old Testament related to New Testament verse. So what type of resources should one look at to make fully use of this feature as I only own the Harmony so on my side it only works on the gospels as I dont own any New Testament based on the Old Testament resources. Can you recommend what to lack at.
Vale a pena adicionar essa funcionalidade. Que seja opcional. Ativarmos quando quisermos. Tudo que vier agregar ao sistema é sempre bem vindo.
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It is very annoying. I often have several bibles open at once, and every time I open the web app I have to go through and hide the tab in each of them. Is there a way of having it hidden by default? I wouldn't use it, but it wouldn't bother me nearly as much if it was just another item on the bar above the resource I could turn on or off. With its being on by default it is super annoying, and so far I haven't found a way to make it off by default. Any help would be appreciated.
It is very annoying. I often have several bibles open at once, and every time I open the web app I have to go through and hide the tab in each of them. Is there a way of having it hidden by default? I wouldn't use it, but it wouldn't bother me nearly as much if it was just another item on the bar above the resource I could turn on or off. With its being on by default it is super annoying, and so far I haven't found a way to make it off by default. Any help would be appreciated.
It bothers me that it automatically opens every time I do a passage search. Far better would be if it were an optional feature for the user.
Perhaps you missed it but Mark Barnes has already responded to a similar critique earlier in the thread (https://community.logos.com/forums/p/217415/1266627.aspx#1266627) with an indication that this would be addressed.
For God and For Neighbor
Greetings. How do you disable widget? I'm studying in the same book and so i don't need to see it every time I launch Logos. Thanks.
HW Scott, Five Minutes in the Word Podcast
Hope Scott, M.Ed.
#MinutesWord Podcast
Hola, que Dios les continue bendiciendo.
Me gusta la idea, de poder consultar rápidamente un comentario desde la misma ventana de la Biblia, pero sería bueno también que deje ver el comentario completo de cada versículo, ya que cuando es muy largo no se puede continuar leyendo y hay que abrir aparte el recurso para poder leerlo completo.
At this point, too many features are missing, so it has become cumbersome for me.
I would like to be able to prioritize the commentaries instead of it highlighting the top one on the drop-down list.
My drop-down list is in priority order ...
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Mark, for series such as Hermeneaia or Anchor, the sidebar opens to the translation not the commentary
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Mark, for series such as Hermeneaia or Anchor, the sidebar opens to the translation not the commentary
Could you give me a specific example? I tried a few test cases, and it worked fine then.
How do you turn it on and off so it is not your default setting
You don't ... it is still a beta feature.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
At this point it's not helpful, and I'm having trouble figuring out how to get Logos to not open Insights by default. I usually have other resources chosen in other parts of my layout, and Insights takes up more horizontal space than I want to give up.
But that said, it could be useful if it shows me useful resources. I don't have much faith that an AI-based selection will be worth the horizontal space, but who knows?
The main change - I would like to make the default state of Insights to be hidden, not shown. I can find the button if I want to see it. My best insights have always come from the word of God itself, and I'm cautious about what things (with the best intention) might color my lenses uncritically.
Desktop - maybe. Mobile - be careful. Screen real estate is precious there, as are clock cycles. I'd rather not have something like this intruding on my workflow on the web. It could really annoy me on mobile.
I'm having trouble figuring out how to get Logos to not open Insights by default.
It is currently in beta and "on" by default. There isn't currently a way to set it "off" by default... you have to manually do so. This will not always be the case.
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I don't have much faith that an AI-based selection will be worth the horizontal space, but who knows?
Why do you say AI-based selection? It appears to me to be based on my prioritization but I don't recall seeing anything stating either way.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
I would prefer to have a commentary tool that
1. Shows you the complete info on that verse instead of clicking more.
2. Allows you to choose your collections. For example: all Study Bibles
3. Includes the corresponding selection filter so I can click in my Bible and see in my commentary a related word.
If it does come to desktop then we need a setting to turn it on and off.
If it comes (probably will) it will have an on/off.
The web app allows Logos to try new things out... right now this in in beta and haven't coded the on/off switch yet (plus they want as many people to try it as possible).
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If it does come to desktop then we need a setting to turn it on and off.If it comes (probably will) it will have an on/off.
The web app allows Logos to try new things out... right now this in in beta and haven't coded the on/off switch yet (plus they want as many people to try it as possible).
I understand but it's in the way. I no longer use the web app because every time I load my bible is open because that's how I prefer it to open and the insights is invading my space. Yeah I have to click it off. Every time I use the web app so I just stopped using it.
I no longer use the web app because every time I load my bible is open because that's how I prefer it to open and the insights is invading my space.
At some point, what you want (or don't want!) will be fixed on the web app.
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I like the concept, but I will already have a study bible and commentary opened and linked (I'm a 3 panel guy).
What I would want to see here are "hidden gems" of some sort, i.e.
key words,
key Greek/Hebrew words with a link to a lexicon,
textual variants,
Bible comparison of the verse from my top 5 bibles,
key timeline events.
I don't like that it eats up half of the bible tab, I would prefer it be in a separate tab maybe.
I believe this should be available also in the desktop app, but since I am not a fan of the mobile app I defer to those who do.
I like that you continue to develop the Web App. I am using this more and more. Thank you.
While I appreciate the potential value of Insights... as it will likely develop down the road a piece (as is the wonderful case of Logos development) right now it is irritating in that it is "on" when I go to the web app and I manually have to turn it off every time. Would appreciate an option to be able to turn it on as I needed, as per everything else in Logos. Thank you!
Would appreciate an option to be able to turn it on as I needed, as per everything else in Logos.
That is the plan.
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While I appreciate the potential value of Insights... as it will likely develop down the road a piece (as is the wonderful case of Logos development) right now it is irritating in that it is "on" when I go to the web app and I manually have to turn it off every time. Would appreciate an option to be able to turn it on as I needed, as per everything else in Logos. Thank you!
When you turn the Insights Sidebar on or off, it will now remember that state, even when you re-open the panel.
Everything in here is already at my fingertips. I have gone through great pains to configure my desktop the way I want it, then saving as a web app so when I start it up it looks the way I want. This Insights tab automatically appears and the first thing I have to do is to close it. If you must keep it, at least allow me to turn it off.
I appreciate this new idea. [:D]
I think that would also be useful to add an option to make custom sections. In each section, you could choose your resources and prioritize them.
For example, in my case, I have to study the Scripture in the original languages. I need to pay attention to grammar, morphology, historical context, archaeology...
In that case, it could be useful to give the opportunity to create custom sections. For example:
If you add this, Logos software could be more useful for research and academic study.
May God bless you all
--
Fernando-Elías
I appreciate this new idea. [:D]
I think that would also be useful to add an option to make custom sections. In each section, you could choose your resources and prioritize them.
For example, in my case, I have to study the Scripture in the original languages. I need to pay attention to grammar, morphology, historical context, archaeology...
In that case, it could be useful to give the opportunity to create custom sections. For example:
If you add this, Logos software could be more useful for research and academic study.
May God bless you all
--
Fernando-Elías
I hope I'm not being oxymoronic here: I like it and I can see where it would come in handy; but I don't know if I would use it much. For one thing, if I want commentary, I'll pick and choose various commentaries or I would use the passage guide. Also, there are other ways to get a similar behavior with the depth that I normally want (like link sets).
I have one issue as it is: the windows are kind of small to offer much information. Even when I click "More>>", it doesn't give me much text to be helpful.
I'm like Lew, I guess. Interesting, but kill it.
I'd think the question should be directed to light users, who want their Bible, and some hepful information. When you add datasets, I'd think they'd like that. Bible class especially.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
In its current form it is not at all useful to me. However, it may be for others. I get a reference to two bible study commentaries neither of which are ones I would choose.
May I ask where your quote come from?
"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."
Google is your friend. Literally plug that quote (including the quotation marks) into Google and you'll have your answer.
It is a song that Patty Loveless sang. Nothing biblical just a song someone wrote.
I agree with these sentiments.