Amount spent on Logos software

First I want to say I really enjoy Logos. That being said, I got curious on the amount of money I have spent on this software. Googled and found a post from August 4, 2017 on how to tell how mush you have spent, exported the excel data it created from my account and summed the total amount in Microsoft Excel. Grand total? $19060.82 and have a total of 13,611 resources. Yes, I know I know I over did it. To say I am surprised is an understatement. Do I get the booby prize? Those who want to share, how much have you discovered you have invested? Before I die, I am going to contact the Dean of Students at Dallas Theological Seminary and ask for recommendations of a student who I can transfer my account to (if they want to pay the transfer cost).

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Tony Walker

Probably way more than I should have, esp considering im a family of 6 making 40k at a church… but I plan to use it for the rest of my life. My only hope is that the company and software will have many more decades of life (and me too).

I have thought about what would happen if I die suddenly. I need to have some detailed instructions somewhere, but my hunch would be to Channing Crisler (he has a book or two for sale in the Logos store). He is a professor at the school I am currently at and I know the resources wouldn't go to waste if he got them.

Thomas Pape

Logos says I have spent Total: $27,145.28 spent - so far. But I don't want to miss logos anymore. The way to find things in books you have read is just awesome. And when I think how much time and space I have already saved - for my more than 20200 books - just awesome and worth every penny!

DMB

I'm surprised at you guys price/book. In the 'old days', it was around $2 or so. Is Logos getting more affordable?

EastTN

...Before I die, I am going to contact the Dean of Students at Dallas Theological Seminary and ask for recommendations of a student who I can transfer my account to (if they want to pay the transfer cost).

I have a similar thought.

David Wanat

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223229#Comment_1223229

I remember when Bibles cost $39.99and the Schaff ECF set cost $400. So, I imagine people who have been using it longer will have a higher “total cost” for the same resources than someone who bought the same resources later.

(and my cost over 15 years was $15,327.42. 😬)

Jack Caviness

Just under 62k—but FL's records only go back to 2003, and my will already grants it all to my grandson, But now, I have two more grandsons in school preparing for vocations Christian service. Time to reevaluate the will [:P]

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223222#Comment_1223222

In the 'old days', it was around $2 or so.

Ah yes, the old generally accepted 'good deal' price per volume for Community Pricing resources.

Price per book is greatly affected (reduced) by things like Perseus, manuscript collections, Themelios, etc.

Tony Walker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223238#Comment_1223238

Forgive me if this gets me off topic. I know there are many pastors who get no reimbursement, and have paid for every book they have with their own money. I also know of churches who give their pastors money to buy books every month or year. I know of a large church that gives its staff no money for study or books (one I work at now). and I know of a pastor who was at a very small church who gave him enough each month that he used to make a good upgrade each Logos release… so I know there are lots of variables.

but for the sake of learning, if/when I finish seminary in a couple of years and if/when I leave my current church and if/when I ever am at another ministry, what would one expect in full-time ministry would a church to allot its ministers for Logos library upgrades (to stay on the topic of Logos and its software

GaoLu

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223241#Comment_1223241

As much as a nice pickup truck. I don't have the truck, but I do have Logos.

James C.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223247#Comment_1223247

$32,523.47 total of 25,633 books not including user created. This total amount spend is not correct. I have purchased from 3rd party distributers when that was a thing back in the day. But this is close.

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223241#Comment_1223241

what would one expect in full-time ministry would a church to allot its ministers for Logos library upgrades

I also have been in various book allowance schemes. Part of being formed into a faithful minister is dying to self. I wish I had learned that earlier in ministry. When I negotiated my own "fair" compensation it created hard feelings. I have learned that the key to harmonious clergy/congregation relationships is to minimize expectations! I try to outgive my compensation through my level of service and I am blessed now to be in a place that tries to 1 Tim 5:17 by trying to generously compensate services rendered.

That being said, my situation this year is that this church (rural church with Sunday attendance near 80) has budgeted $4k to reimburse pastoral professional expenses (mileage, entertainment, books, continuing ed. conferences, etc.) I submit actual receipts (monthly mileage reports) and any amount left at the end of the year I do NOT get. This makes it an "adequately accounted" reimbursement which is exempt from income.

something to think about: I have been in some churches that figured anything purchased out of this fund becomes church property and must be left when I move to next location. Other churches figure they "get their value" out of these items through my increased ability to serve them better. I have also heard of churches that depreciate (the difference between new and used books) greatly, then the pastor must buy from the church any resources he takes to the next place of service.

Rick Koelz

Would it be possible to point us to that post, or tell us how to find this information?

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223249#Comment_1223249

to put things in perspective.... I know a contractor that uses heavy equipment... dump trucks, dozers, backhoes, and such.... His theory is simple... if you don't have the right tools, you can't do the job efficiently. He says what good is equipment if it doesn't work? I believe that's true with Bible study. One has to have good resources and a good Bible program to dig through those resources...

So each year I set aside some to upgrade both resources and ways to dig through those resources...

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223253#Comment_1223253

To each his own, but isn’t this TMI? Whatever one spends, I think it’s personal information and shouldn’t be shared. Why would I want people to know how much I’ve spent in Logos? Just saying…It’s like sharing salaries, that’s personal information.

DAL

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223254#Comment_1223254

if you don't have the right tools, you can't do the job efficiently.

This is good wisdom! As a pastor I try to ensure our volunteers and part-time employees have access to tools and training (at the church's expense) to best accomplish their tasks. By modeling a culture of equipping for service, the Church Life committee has "bought in" and treats me with the same consideration.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223255#Comment_1223255

To each his own, but isn’t this TMI?

I had to look that up! But the info is interesting? There's a puppet show in Japan; puppets because the subjects discussed are TMI. And my reaction to this post was like watching the Japanese puppets. Oh my!?

Mark Galer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223253#Comment_1223253

Would it be possible to point us to that post, or tell us how to find this information?

Absolutely. The post was made on August 4, 2017 by Scott Bushey

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223253#Comment_1223253

or tell us how to find this information?

The easy was, is on Logos.com, logged in, go to your account (top-right image), then View Order History.

- To see the full amount, scroll to the bottom and click on 'Show All'

- To export to a spreadsheet, at the top-right, click on 'Export to CSV' (exports everything); file is text-format, comma-delimited but spreadsheet readable)

The actual list, as above, isn't everything:

- Goes back to appox 2007 or so

- Doesn't include older 3rd party purchases (the old Libronix CDs)

- Does net out refunds (didn't used to)

- Is not resource-based; packages remain packages

Anthony Sims

$52k and change. It's a massive privilege to have 23k resources but I have many I will never open. I don't have any regrets, but I've become far pickier about my choices the past 2-3 years.

Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223249#Comment_1223249

$32,523.47 total of 25,633 books not including user created. This total amount spend is not correct. I have purchased from 3rd party distributers when that was a thing back in the day. But this is close.

For the amount of resources you have, I think you have done well.

Harold Miller

Logos user since December 2003. 7,015 resources. $22,829.08 worth every penny, no regrets!

Harold Miller

Logos user since December 2003. 7,015 resources. $22,829.08 worth every penny, no regrets!

mab

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223368#Comment_1223368

Less than the bottom loaded Tesla for over 24,000 resources since 2008. Considering who actually provided it all I have nothing but gratitude.

I do need read more, but I am happy[8-|]

Matt Hamrick

I used to say I have spent enough to buy a car and then a truck. Now I could almost buy a house with what I have spent, and I have no regrets.

D. Parker

I was feeling as a layperson who occasional substitute teaches like I'd spent too much at just over $600 for the 841 resources. About a buck and change per resource. It's not a huge library, but the resources I have really help when getting ready to teach a class. And I can't count how many times I've gone down what some would call rabbit-holes, digging into commentaries, dictionaries and other books then finding the "hidden treasures" after spending hours looking at one or two sentences of scripture. How do you put a price on that?

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223447#Comment_1223447

I was feeling as a layperson who occasional substitute teaches like I'd spent too much at just over $600 for the 841 resources. About a buck and change per resource. It's not a huge library, but the resources I have really help when getting ready to teach a class. And I can't count how many times I've gone down what some would call rabbit-holes, digging into commentaries, dictionaries and other books then finding the "hidden treasures" after spending hours looking at one or two sentences of scripture. How do you put a price on that?

I think you've summed up exactly why one need a Bible program such as Logos. The preachers of old spent countless hours studying and researching without the help of a Bible software. I admire them and respect them for it.... Bible software just makes things like Bible Study easier...

in my humble opinion.... [8-|]

Joseph Turner

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223460#Comment_1223460

I was feeling as a layperson who occasional substitute teaches like I'd spent too much at just over $600 for the 841 resources. About a buck and change per resource. It's not a huge library, but the resources I have really help when getting ready to teach a class. And I can't count how many times I've gone down what some would call rabbit-holes, digging into commentaries, dictionaries and other books then finding the "hidden treasures" after spending hours looking at one or two sentences of scripture. How do you put a price on that?

I think you've summed up exactly why one need a Bible program such as Logos. The preachers of old spent countless hours studying and researching without the help of a Bible software. I admire them and respect them for it.... Bible software just makes things like Bible Study easier...

in my humble opinion....

It makes Bible study so much more efficient, taking out the wasted time of opening and looking through paper resources to find information. That time is now all used for study!

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1225998#Comment_1225998

…taking out the wasted time of opening and looking through paper resources to find information. That time is now all used for study!

That’s not quite accurate; in fact, is totally 100% inaccurate. You still have to run a search and go through the results to pick which ones you’ll include in your studies. Even with the passage guide, you still have to go through the results and see what suits your studies better or if you need to invest in other resources. You get to them faster, but there’s still a lot of time invested looking for the right information you want and that usually involves A LOT of reading.

“That time is now all used for study!” is just a sales pitch most people have swallowed, but is definitely far from the actual truth.

I love Logos, but if you’re doing research or exegeting a passage, you still have to go through the resources or search results and take time to evaluate them to make sure you’re not including something that doesn’t agree with your particular “theological flavor.”

Anyway, just making sure people understand that crucial point that’s usually ignored because we bought the sales pitch they sold us 😂😂😂

DAL

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1226032#Comment_1226032

…taking out the wasted time of opening and looking through paper resources to find information. That time is now all used for study!

That’s not quite accurate; in fact, is totally 100% inaccurate.

I love Logos, but if you’re doing research or exegeting a passage, you still have to go through the resources or search results and take time to evaluate them to make sure you’re not including something that doesn’t agree with your particular “theological flavor.”

I agree with Joseph ... absent Logos, forget it. I'm not that wealthy, the sewing room already has too many sewing machines, and Kindle does Bible something awful.

I also agree with DAL. In fact, unless it's something I remember, looking for, Logos isn't good at searches. Sure, fast. Yes, Zillions of hits. But terrible at significance. I end up finding my rabbits in the footnotes while I'm reading. Today's rabbit was why split Mt of Olives north/south. Jesus had to have known that ... he cleared out the Temple (Zechariah).

Joseph Turner

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1226032#Comment_1226032

…taking out the wasted time of opening and looking through paper resources to find information. That time is now all used for study!

That’s not quite accurate; in fact, is totally 100% inaccurate. You still have to run a search and go through the results to pick which ones you’ll include in your studies. Even with the passage guide, you still have to go through the results and see what suits your studies better or if you need to invest in other resources. You get to them faster, but there’s still a lot of time invested looking for the right information you want and that usually involves A LOT of reading.

“That time is now all used for study!” is just a sales pitch most people have swallowed, but is definitely far from the actual truth.

I love Logos, but if you’re doing research or exegeting a passage, you still have to go through the resources or search results and take time to evaluate them to make sure you’re not including something that doesn’t agree with your particular “theological flavor.”

Anyway, just making sure people understand that crucial point that’s usually ignored because we bought the sales pitch they sold us 😂😂😂

DAL

Your interpretation of my point is inaccurate.

What you are saying is that whether you have 25,000 paper books or Logos books, the process of getting them to the pertinent page to find the pertinent information is the same timewise. I'm saying that it's going to be much faster in Logos, getting me to the actual study faster and giving me more time for the study.

You would have to add about 1000 😂😂😂 faces to correctly characterize your argument that it is inaccurate to say that Logos is faster than opening paper books.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1226034#Comment_1226034

I think it's some of both. Logos can be quick within a certain set of conditions...are you already in Logos? But when I read, I mark books pretty extensively. I may remember a section for a particular reason but not recall exactly what words (i.e. search terms) were used...but I may recall that I inscribed a giant ! in the margin on the right side page at the top. Grabbing that book off the shelf, or from the pile that's always on my bed, I can flip to that section pdq. A few years back, my attitude was "if it's not in Logos, it doesn't exist"...until I encountered a number of books that were critical to my studies that I knew would never get picked up by Logos. I finally bit the bullet, and a couple became a few and in the last 5-6 years I've probably bought well over 5-600 books in hard copy. I rekindled my appreciation for having a tome in my hands, and there are still certain advantages to tangibleness.

I have spent plenty in Logos, but FL has missed out on thousands because of its parsimonious approach to acquiring resources.

Stephen Otto

FYI, our libraries do have a resale value. In fact, there is a facebook group with 5K members specifically for listing your logos library for sale. Something to keep in mind in case your needs change, etc.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223261#Comment_1223261

Would it be possible to point us to that post, or tell us how to find this information?

Absolutely. The post was made on August 4, 2017 by Scott Bushey

Here's the URL. It can be really hard to find posts with just a name and date. I tried googling "Scott Bushey" site:community.logos.com but that found only this post of yours, Mark. Turns out his name is "Scott P. Bushey". I found it when I searched for just "Bushey" without his first name.

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/147401.aspx

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1226034#Comment_1226034

I'm saying that it's going to be much faster in Logos, getting me to the actual study faster and giving me more time for the study.

Yeah, sure, but that’s not what you said. This is what you said:

…taking out the wasted time of opening and looking through paper resources to find information. That time is now all used for study!

I put your last sentence in bold for emphasis. Since we don’t have to look through paper resources (or digital/Logos) you stated that ALL that time is now used for study, which is still 100% inaccurate and a contradiction because part of studying/researching involves reading and going through all those resources. You can’t have one without the other.

That was the only point I was making. I wasn’t arguing, but I felt your statement (sales pitch) was not, is not and will never be realistic because you still have to look/search for stuff and read. It may be a little faster, but it doesn’t allow us to use ALL that time for study, that’s all. 😉

DAL

Ps. Anyway, sales pitch or not: Happy “Pastors” month!

Sam Shelton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1226089#Comment_1226089

It may just be semantics, but the amount of time it took me forty or so years ago to research college papers using an entire college library (including microfilm), was much longer than the time it has taken in more recent years to write papers with only my Logos library and search function. The difference is night and day. While I might not use all the time for study, Logos has allowed me to study much more in the same amount of time.

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1226102#Comment_1226102

It may just be semantics, but the amount of time it took me forty or so years ago to research college papers using an entire college library (including microfilm), was much longer than the time it has taken in more recent years to write papers with only my Logos library and search function. The difference is night and day. While I might not use all the time for study, Logos has allowed me to study much more in the same amount of time.

And that’s called being realistic 👍

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1226106#Comment_1226106

And that’s called being realistic 👍

More than realistic. Add time management. The library was so .... well, controlling. An idea at 3am and the library's closed?! Ours also didn't look fondly at a good glass of wine, along with that late-night research, either.

Jeremy White

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223251#Comment_1223251

what would one expect in full-time ministry would a church to allot its ministers for Logos library upgrades

I also have been in various book allowance schemes. Part of being formed into a faithful minister is dying to self. I wish I had learned that earlier in ministry. When I negotiated my own "fair" compensation it created hard feelings. I have learned that the key to harmonious clergy/congregation relationships is to minimize expectations! I try to outgive my compensation through my level of service and I am blessed now to be in a place that tries to 1 Tim 5:17 by trying to generously compensate services rendered.

That being said, my situation this year is that this church (rural church with Sunday attendance near 80) has budgeted $4k to reimburse pastoral professional expenses (mileage, entertainment, books, continuing ed. conferences, etc.) I submit actual receipts (monthly mileage reports) and any amount left at the end of the year I do NOT get. This makes it an "adequately accounted" reimbursement which is exempt from income.

something to think about: I have been in some churches that figured anything purchased out of this fund becomes church property and must be left when I move to next location. Other churches figure they "get their value" out of these items through my increased ability to serve them better. I have also heard of churches that depreciate (the difference between new and used books) greatly, then the pastor must buy from the church any resources he takes to the next place of service.

I think this thread now has two topics?

I think David's response could be summed up by saying "it depends, and it varies a lot". Quite a few years back now I was in a role that caused me to be privy to the financials or a wide range of churches. All I can say is the maxim "Don’t tell me what you value, show me your budget, and I’ll tell you what you value" plays out very clearly.

I think the answer from any potential employer (church or otherwise) to the question: "What resources will be provided or costs covered for my personal development" is likely to be very revealing. I have extensive experience in the corporate training world and there is a cliched call and response that goes like this.... "what if we train people and the leave?"..... the correct response being "what if we don't and they stay?"

For the church I minister in we offer Logos to anyone involved in Bible teaching (not everyone wants it which is fine) We budget $400 to $500 per person which currently gets them Starter Pack and a couple of Legacy Libraries (to bump up commentary coverage). We also reimburse an individual commentary on whatever Biblical book they are teaching from. (Currently this generally means NIV Application). They purchase these on their own account and are reimbursed, they can purchase other items if they wish but out of their own pocket. If I want everyone to have a specific resource I can use the group buying option and then assign them a license. If they stop or leave; it is theirs to keep - we see it as a Kingdom investment.

For context, we are a small church (20-30 adults weekly involvement and we do not have paid staff.

skypeace

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1226147#Comment_1226147

.... "what if we train people and they leave?"..... the correct response being "what if we don't and they stay?"

[:D] Thanks, lightened my evening.

Daniel Aguilera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223460#Comment_1223460

If I could go back I would do the following

1. Subscribe to Logos connect to try out a lot of the commentaries (since I knew nothing about them before purchasing logos)

2. Find a package that includes only the ones I truly want instead of wasting on packages I think will be helpful...

For example: I'm not even baptist but I have found baptist stuff way more helpful than those that are in the package I purchased..

Daniel Aguilera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223460#Comment_1223460

If I could go back I would do the following

1. Subscribe to Logos connect to try out a lot of the commentaries (since I knew nothing about them before purchasing logos)

2. Find a package that includes only the ones I truly want instead of wasting on packages I think will be helpful...

For example: I'm not even baptist but I have found baptist stuff way more helpful than those that are in the package I purchased..

Daniel Aguilera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1223460#Comment_1223460

If I could go back I would do the following

1. Subscribe to Logos connect to try out a lot of the commentaries (since I knew nothing about them before purchasing logos)

2. Find a package that includes only the ones I truly want instead of wasting on packages I think will be helpful...

For example: I'm not even baptist but I have found baptist stuff way more helpful than those that are in the package I purchased..

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1270470#Comment_1270470

Years back, I didn't know beans (now I only know a bean)... but I didn't know which commentary, what books I would want in my library. I went to a book store, bought me a cup of coffee and sat and perused books and commentaries I thought I would want. I never was much for "walking in another man's moccasins" so to speak and I have always felt that seeking for myself was the best option.

I do the same with books offered by Faithlife. It's more difficult these days as the bookstore I went to went kuput. But I do still check out books as much as I can.

Following commentaries and books by others can often lead you into a trap of "walking in another man's moccasins" when you really don't want to.

The bible sheds a lot of light on commentaries. [8-|]

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1270470#Comment_1270470

Find a package that includes only the ones I truly want

My take would be

Find a package that includes the resources I need and see what is included that I might find useful, shrugging my shoulders and saying 'O Well!' about the other stuff which may, or may not, ever be downloaded.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1270470#Comment_1270470

If I could go back I would do the following

Monday morning, and hindsight and all that.

I've accumulated maybe 4K books, I'd say (not counting Perseus). Most I've hand-picked. Only in recent years did I get packages, in order to save on sets I wanted to finish up with.

But features? I'd say Logos6 is about as far as I use (of course I 'own' most up to L10). L6, when was that ... 2014? Almost 10 years ago.

To illustrate, I wanted to know where Gaba was (key question in between Enoch and Josephu). Factbook never heard of it. Accordance maps pulled it up instantly (with a question mark to confirm an estimate).

I guess I'm stuck in a time-warp of efficient use.

Wild Eagle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1270470#Comment_1270470

I see the value in packages. Even though I won’t use most of the books from the package, it helps me to bring down the prices on the books I want right now and in the future. That is the beauty of dynamic pricing.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1270540#Comment_1270540

To illustrate, I wanted to know where Gaba was (key question in between Enoch and Josephu). Factbook never heard of it.

If you lived in the PNW, Factbook would come up with Gaba instantly as an alternative spelling to Geba which displays the same page. I'm curious as to what went wrong for you.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1270559#Comment_1270559

The PNW is certainly nice. But it's not a mispelling. Gaba is (probably) somewhere just north east of Mt Carmel and the entrance to the Jezreel valley. I knew Factbook was off-key when they had theirs down near Jerusalem (Geba). But surprisingly Accordance knew the difference.

Added: If I do a heading/large-text search on my dictionaries the Cyclopedia is always quite right (came from the WordSearch merger?). The Bible dictionaries uniformly only know of the Biblical levitical location; not Josephus.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1270562#Comment_1270562

Wikipedia has

Jaba', Haifa, a village near Mount Carmel, Israel also known as Gaba
Jab'a, a village in the West Bank, southwest of Jerusalem, also known as Gaba
Geba (city), a city in ancient Israel

I agree that Factbook is annoyingly Bible-constricted. It doesn't even know the name of Noah's wife.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1270564#Comment_1270564

the name of Noah's wife.

That's even worse!!

But 'Gaba' is a locator for events in the Bible ... just not the Bellingham canon! The argument is being made that the Parables of Enoch were written in the vicinity of Migdal .... in the same period as Jesus' ministry. I've been checking (ha).