Where is Logos in terms of AI integration?
?
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
Comments
-
I consider most natural language processing especially that which is (mathematical) graph based (think network if you are not familiar with Bayesian inference) to be artificial intelligence. If I understand correctly how some of the mass data loads occur, I would say there is an implied use of artificial intelligence. Then the new translation tool is using 3rd party natural language processing/artificial intelligence. However, I have yet to see artificial intelligence that comes close to being able to identify actual information from biased garbage which is necessary for Bible studies because there is more of the latter than of the former. The current rage for chat.openai is justified in the sense that it allows a series of question to provide cumulative context which is a major step forward but it does not yet recognize when it provides inconsistent answers within that context. Until AI recognizes its own inconsistencies, I will trust it only for topics that fit smoothly into its logical model.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
Maybe so.... but.... I do believe that when AI is properly trained per the individual... it will greatly enhance bible study programs.. Whatever is said about AI, we are still in the infant-icy of AI and I do believe great things are coming because of AI... and especially so in bible study.
2 things have to happen: 1. Programmers have to learn how to use it. 2. Users have to learn how to use it.
The whole concept that is now in baby steps looks exciting. [8-|]
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
0 -
David Paul said:?
Judging from just how easy it is to mislead the flock (and pastors' curious inability to get them back on-track), I would suspect the Apostle Paul would place the future of 'AI' (it is artificial) along with his 'powers' that threaten to wreak his work (aka the church). It'll be interesting.
But what is called AI, is largely high-speed pattern matching and around for probably 2 decades now, even in Bible analytics. Philosophically, FL has stuck to the hard and true for good reason ... seminary use. Whether they'll go cutsie, who knows.
0 -
First we need to get the apps to respond to simple voice commands ("Hey Logos, play my last audio book where I left off"; "Hey Logos, read me the Factbook entry for Augustine"). Baby steps, people. (Sometimes baby steps are hard enough.)
0 -
AI in general seems to have stalled a bit.
What we are told and what is revealed to us is not always an accurate representation of what is possible. I have been watching the slow and weak roll-out of the Astro Robot. The claims that Alexa is losing money and the forced commercials when she is used have caught my attention. But maybe huge developments are happening beyond what the masses are being told.
What I have not seen is steady and lowcost delivery of more advanced interactive AI to the masses. I don't think I know enough about what is truly going on in the background to speculate about what to expect. I will be disappointed if access to AI becomes a further divider of the classes.
In this greater climate, speculating about AI in Logos is probably a waste of my time. If I am honest, I have thought about it, and I am pessimistic in multiple ways. As my eyesight continues to deteriorate, I would like to have the option to use AI for Biblestudy.
0 -
Br Damien-Joseph OSB said:
First we need to get the apps to respond to simple voice commands ("Hey Logos, play my last audio book where I left off"; "Hey Logos, read me the Factbook entry for Augustine"). Baby steps, people. (Sometimes baby steps are hard enough.)
Unfortunately, I don't think the response to Faithlife Assistant encouraged Logos/Verbum to push in that direction.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
I get a little bit of a sense that folks aren't keeping up with what's dropping day-by-day over the last 2-3 weeks. Just a week or so ago one AI group guessed it would be years before individual AIs would go from costs ranging from hundreds of thousands up to millions of dollars to develop down to something that is more affordable...and literally one week later, another group (Stanford, I think) replicated an AI that was 95+% of the best current option...for $600. Literally every single day multiple AI announcements are being made that are shocking monitors in the space. There are already cases of AIs hiring humans on Fiver or other platforms to do things they cannot do for themselves, such as pass Captchas. When asked by the human why "it" needed help, the AI invented a story about being blind and unable to see the test, and the human complied. Yes, the AI lied...or perhaps it just "did what was necessary" to advance in its immediate task. Point is, nearly every business that hopes to exist a year from now is crawling over themselves to incorporate AI into their business models and product lines. Google has fallen so far behind that it might never be able to catch up. MS has already incorportated AI into nearly every component of its Office suite, meaning MS may have already won, since first mover effects in AI spaces can create advantages that are completely insurmountable. Not attempting to guess the future here, but if Google has already lost the space, and many people are saying as much, it isn't out of the question that an upstart group could enter the AI bible study space and surpass FL in less than 6 months to a year's time. If FL doesn't jump on this immediately, they will be thoroughly trounced.
Given my level of disgust with FL over the last 3-4 years and their persistent lack of concern for addressing my workflow-killing issues, I can't say that seeing a better and more responsive platform would be entirely unwelcome, but we all have significant investments in Logos/Verbum and I suspect most want to see that investment thrive rather than shrivel.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
0 -
David Paul said:
I get a little bit of a sense that folks aren't keeping up with what's dropping day-by-day over the last 2-3 weeks. Just a week or so ago one AI group guessed it would be years before individual AIs would go from costs ranging from hundreds of thousands up to millions of dollars to develop down to something that is more affordable...and literally one week later, another group (Stanford, I think) replicated an AI that was 95+% of the best current option...for $600.
Notice that it is the cost of training that is $600. And that Stanford achieved the decrease in training costs by the educated use of tools already in the market. This implies that Standford made no real breakthough in the application of AI but rather used human reason to decrease expenses. AI is still at the stage where it works well is some fields, and poorly in others. Yes, I don't have my hand on the pulse of the topic as I did for the two years I went out with the owner of an AI startup, but I haven't seen some very basic issues worked out. I expect the progress to continue to speed up and for the public to respond excitedly at the glitzy progress and ignore the knotty problems.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
David Paul said:
I get a little bit of a sense that folks aren't keeping up with what's dropping day-by-day over the last 2-3 weeks. Just a week or so ago one AI group guessed it would be years before individual AIs would go from costs ranging from hundreds of thousands up to millions of dollars to develop down to something that is more affordable...and literally one week later, another group (Stanford, I think) replicated an AI that was 95+% of the best current option...for $600.
Notice that it is the cost of training that is $600. And that Stanford achieved the decrease in training costs by the educated use of tools already in the market. This implies that Standford made no real breakthough in the application of AI but rather used human reason to decrease expenses. AI is still at the stage where it works well is some fields, and poorly in others. Yes, I don't have my hand on the pulse of the topic as I did for the two years I went out with the owner of an AI startup, but I haven't seen some very basic issues worked out. I expect the progress to continue to speed up and for the public to respond excitedly at the glitzy progress and ignore the knotty problems.
Note that Stanford has been at the forefront of language processing for several decades. Alpaca AI: Stanford researchers clone ChatGPT AI for just $600 (interestingengineering.com)
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
Having a natural language assistant who has knowledge and comprehension of the contents of my library would be incredible.
"Assistant can you show me all of the commentaries that have a discussion on x passage in regards to y theological topic?"
"Assistant can you excerpt for me all of x author's teaching on y subject"
"Assistant I'm researching on y topic, which would be the most applicable books to review?"
And this is just superficial use cases.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
Jacob Hantla said:
Having a natural language assistant who has knowledge and comprehension of the contents of my library would be incredible.
I agree wholeheartedly. But for some reason the first prototype of this, Faithlife Assistant, was not well received to encourage Logos/Verbum to continue to develop in this direction. Perhaps when the bug fixing phase is over, we can get real support behind a feedback request for this type of assistance recognizing that it starts small.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
I heard there is open source AI. I have been using chatgpt for Greek words is pretty good. Logos should definitely look into open source AI.
0 -
I heard there is open source AI. I have been using chatgpt for Greek words is pretty good. Logos should definitely look into open source AI.
0 -
wilfredo aguilar said:
Logos should definitely look into open source AI.
Are you aware of the new experimental search engine Mark outlined at https://community.logos.com/forums/t/216686.aspx
0 -
MJ. Smith said:Jacob Hantla said:
Having a natural language assistant who has knowledge and comprehension of the contents of my library would be incredible.
I agree wholeheartedly. But for some reason the first prototype of this, Faithlife Assistant, was not well received to encourage Logos/Verbum to continue to develop in this direction. Perhaps when the bug fixing phase is over, we can get real support behind a feedback request for this type of assistance recognizing that it starts small.
I foresee two kinds of programs in the future.... those that embrace AI and make use of it and those that don't. The first will draw the throngs of people because of the ease of use.... It (AI) is already drawing crowds and has not matured yet!! People are actually making use of it! The other program may not survive. AI is not going away. It is here to stay and will only get better. It's the greatest change in program thinking since programming began!!
Which says there are two kinds of people... those that embrace change and those that don't.
Mark Barnes seems to have his head on straight about it all. Let's work to help him. I believe he is working to make Logos better for all.
uuh.... I think I am in the camp of embracing change... lol [8-|]
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
0 -
xnman said:
Which says there are two kinds of people... those that embrace change and those that don't.
… and those who think critically about it.
One thing we have to recognise is that the technology we use changes us and how we live. When I first started work in the 1970s I carried the phone numbers of all of our 60+ shops in my head and dialled them out number by number on a rotary dial. Now, because my phone remembers all the numbers I need I’ve lost the capacity to remember more than a few phone numbers. A headlong lunge into using AI is something I’d be very cautious about without thinking about how it will affect the way I approach Scripture, and what capabilities I will lose or compromise by using it.
Before Bible software, I used to get out concordances, Bible Dictionaries, lexicons and an interlinear and the whole process took time, including reflection, looking things up, thinking, prayer, and meditation. I am really glad that the “looking up” is hugely streamlined by Logos, but I do have a concern that the use of AI will impact on the devotional aspects of reading Scripture. I’ve stopped using dated Reading Plans because they were affecting my approach to reading, and I am currently re-evaluating my exegetical workflow to consider how the software impacts my approach to the text. We are in danger of losing the art of carefully and reflectively reading and searching the text for the sake of quick answers, and I would hope that any developments bear that in mind.0 -
xnman said:
Which says there are two kinds of people..
Yep, Barny. Those with the bullet in their pocket, and everyone else. Says Andy.
You need to visit a monastery.
And personally I'd think a liturgical oriented Logos option makes more sense than an AI slice and dicer ("It slices ... it dices!!"). I've been in AI for years and liturgical is looking good.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
GregW said:
We are in danger of losing the art of carefully and reflectively reading and searching the text for the sake of quick answers, and I would hope that any developments bear that in mind.
Agree. That's one of my discomforts with Logos' progression ... slicing and dicing to such a degree the author's message is lost.
But alternatively, maybe the market isn't that author-oriented ... stack and rack. (I like metaphors).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
xnman said:
I foresee two kinds of programs in the future.... those that embrace AI and make use of it and those that don't.
You are thinking very small indeed. Your forgot the third kind, those written by AI itself.
AI could write software as massive and complex as Logos in a matter of minutes [H]
Lets just hope it doesn't turn out like skynet in the Terminator. It always needs to have an OFF switch.
0 -
GregW said:
One thing we have to recognise is that the technology we use changes us and how we live. When I first started work in the 1970s I carried the phone numbers of all of our 60+ shops in my head and dialled them out number by number on a rotary dial. Now, because my phone remembers all the numbers I need I’ve lost the capacity to remember more than a few phone numbers. A headlong lunge into using AI is something I’d be very cautious about without thinking about how it will affect the way I approach Scripture, and what capabilities I will lose or compromise by using it.
Before Bible software, I used to get out concordances, Bible Dictionaries, lexicons and an interlinear and the whole process took time, including reflection, looking things up, thinking, prayer, and meditation. I am really glad that the “looking up” is hugely streamlined by Logos, but I do have a concern that the use of AI will impact on the devotional aspects of reading Scripture. I’ve stopped using dated Reading Plans because they were affecting my approach to reading, and I am currently re-evaluating my exegetical workflow to consider how the software impacts my approach to the text. We are in danger of losing the art of carefully and reflectively reading and searching the text for the sake of quick answers, and I would hope that any developments bear that in mind.Good point and well said!
One thing to keep in mind is.... bible study is what one makes it. For years I did as you, had a library of books on a shelf and used them daily. I kept Excel database of where the info I found was so I could go back and review if needed. Bible software has helped in that regard and I see more help with all that coming.
But ..... I still spend time memorizing scripture, reading my bible, reading other books and such associated with the bible. We best not let any software "become our knowledge".... as that can be taken away. What's in our brain, no one can take away!! God should be in our hearts and software should help to put Him there.
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
0 -
I have an alternative use. Most Gen AI are filled with Bias. I would like to train my AI like I would myself. I.e. get it to read my entire logos library every day. With this "turning" of my AI it may have a more useful answer to my other Gen AI questions. Logos has this data. The other companies will favor their own bias.
0 -
I for one wouldn't use voice commands.MJ. Smith said:Br Damien-Joseph OSB said:First we need to get the apps to respond to simple voice commands ("Hey Logos, play my last audio book where I left off"; "Hey Logos, read me the Factbook entry for Augustine"). Baby steps, people. (Sometimes baby steps are hard enough.)
Unfortunately, I don't think the response to Faithlife Assistant encouraged Logos/Verbum to push in that direction.
I could see them being useful for someone without fingers. but I type way faster than I can speak.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
0 -
Peter Shaw said:
Most Gen AI are filled with Bias
Are you speaking of the AI engine or the materials used to train it?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0
