FL: Please stop selling witchcraft books written by witches
Faithlife, please don’t sell books like this. The author is a practicing witch, the book is about
how to practice witchcraft, and the “moon books” imprint webpage says its books are about “paganism and shamanism.”
Comments
It’s there, if you need it buy it, if not, then don’t buy it. It’s a business and unless you believe in witchcraft and that it actually works, then worry about it, but if you don’t believe then there’s nothing to worry about 😂
DAL
Ps. It should comfort you to know it’s white magic 🪄, the good kind, not the dark kind 🧙
... and unless you believe in witchcraft and that it actually works, then worry about it, but if you don’t believe then there’s nothing to worry about
You sound hauntingly like a writer in the NT. Let me see, who could it be? Oh gee .. Paul!
I guess better buy it, before FL gets spooked! Oops, a prepub. Spook time. Actually, here in New-Age-Land, it's good to understand the thinking, before discussing Jesus. Most Christians haven't a clue. Once, in Bible class, a visitor asked about channeling Jesus. Reaction: frowns.
EDIT: Actually, Jeremiah made a similar argument as Paul. Paul's was a little more sophisticated.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
... and unless you believe in witchcraft and that it actually works, then worry about it, but if you don’t believe then there’s nothing to worry about
You sound hauntingly like a writer in the NT. Let me see, who could it be? Oh gee .. Paul!
I guess better buy it, before FL gets spooked! Oops, a prepub. Spook time. Actually, here in New-Age-Land, it's good to understand the thinking, before discussing Jesus. Most Christians haven't a clue. Once, in Bible class, a visitor asked about channeling Jesus. Reaction: frowns.
EDIT: Actually, Jeremiah made a similar argument as Paul. Paul's was a little more sophisticated.
Well, you see, people like us reason through things and make arguments because we are mature and want to understand to have actual answers when others who are willing to learn ask questions. But some people they just whine about it without really understanding things and just claiming something is wrong with zero arguments to back it up.
Coming from a family who had some practice magic I can tell you about the real books that you should read to learn something but can assure you that you don’t really want to read those books and learn what’s in them. But this book is harmless and gives you some insight into different perspectives people have about “witchcraft.”
Anyway, hopefully this cute book will make its way back some day 😂😂😂
👻👻👻
DAL
Coming from a family who had some practice magic I can tell you about the real books that you should read to learn something
I am often tempted to suggest Medieval grimoires to the suggested resources list but I refrain because I know it is just my warped sense of humor ... but there is a great book on gnostic silk-route amulets that would be a legitimate, useful addition to Logos.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
... Actually, here in New-Age-Land, it's good to understand the thinking, before discussing Jesus. Most Christians haven't a clue. Once, in Bible class, a visitor asked about channeling Jesus. Reaction: frowns...
Well, you see, people like us reason through things and make arguments because we are mature and want to understand to have actual answers when others who are willing to learn ask questions. But some people they just whine about it without really understanding things and just claiming something is wrong with zero arguments to back it up....
We've somehow ended up in ad hominem land.
There are many books in Logos that address Paganism, Wicca, and ritual magic. I would prefer that people could use their own discernment about such a book instead of just taking it out because someone doesn't like it. One might think Logos is exclusively Christian, but in practice, the site sells more than just Christian literature. Either take away many more questionable books, or let anyone buy what interests them. Otherwise, it's selective censorship.
This is a discussion among Logos customers about what products we would like to see them offer, and which we would prefer they not offer. No more, no less. My preference would be for Logos to remain a specialty retailer. You might prefer that they become another Amazon, but with better software. That's fine, and catering to your preferences may be a better business strategy for them. But this discussion is not about censorship. No one is talking about forcing books off the market. Amazon is still going to be offering this book, and many others on paganism, regardless of what FaithLife chooses to do.
I don't want to see my specialty hardwood store start stocking construction grade pine two by fours. I'd rather they focus their efforts on ensuring a quality supply of quartersawn oak, figured maple and sustainably grown tropical hardwoods. That's not "censorship" of two by fours - Home Depot has them by the pallet-load.
One final note, then I'm done. We've ended up in a place in this discussion where we're joking about paganism. I just finished teaching an 8-week series on Ezekiel. God has an opinion on paganism, and it's not a positive one. That's not to say Christians shouldn't study it or be knowledgeable about it. I have several "Wicca for Dummies" style books on my shelf for just that purpose. But I do think there's a limit to how flippant we should be about it.
This is a discussion among Logos customers about what products we would like to see them offer, and which we would prefer they not offer. No more, no less. My preference would be for Logos to remain a specialty retailer. You might prefer that they become another Amazon, but with better software. That's fine, and catering to your preferences may be a better business strategy for them. But this discussion is not about censorship. No one is talking about forcing books off the market. Amazon is still going to be offering this book, and many others on paganism, regardless of what FaithLife chooses to do.
Logos is first and foremost a research platform, and if one is researching witchcraft, he or she might like to use this work as a source. I would rather Logos include works and leave it to he discretion of the users than to not offer works.
For instance, I taught a class on world religions, and I covered Satanism, so I wanted Anton Lavey's Satanic Bible as a source, but Logos doesn't offer it, so I had to get it through another avenue.
I don't want to see my specialty hardwood store start stocking construction grade pine two by fours. I'd rather they focus their efforts on ensuring a quality supply of quartersawn oak, figured maple and sustainably grown tropical hardwoods. That's not "censorship" of two by fours - Home Depot has them by the pallet-load.
This is a false analogy. Logos is a research library which sells many resources related to Religion. You don't want them to sell books on witchcraft, but what about Islam, or Mormonism, or even Gnosticism and Gnostic Gospels? I would hope you wouldn't want those works taken out. Out of all of those I just mentioned, Witchcraft is the only one mentioned in the Bible, though one could argue that early forms of Gnostic thinking are there as well.
My point is that you are looking at Logos as a Christian bookstore, but it is a Research Library, and research can take many avenues related to the Bible and Christianity, and some of those avenues necessarily delve into paganism.
Disclaimer: I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication. If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.
but it is a Research Library, and research can take many avenues related to the Bible and Christianity,
Well said ... and research libraries do have quality standards. Unless you are specifically doing research on late 1960's hippie views of reincarnation, a research library doesn't need Lobsang Rampa's book narrated by his cat. Living With the Lama: Rampa, T. Lobsang, Greywhiskers, Fifi: 9781545372203: Amazon.com: Books [see there is no end to my store of pointless knowledge - the advantage of many years to collect it]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Ah yes.
When I was at university I had all of Lobsang Rampa's books. I tried to do astral projection but thankfully failed, although I remained convinced about reincarnation for many years.
SO thankful the Lord rescued me - I made a bonfire and burned all his and some other books. I would never read that rubbish now nor some of the other junk that Faithlife sells.
I do understand the need of researchers to read some original materials, but for the average Christian, including pastors/ministers/elders/priests the focus must be on Jesus and remembering that whatever we do it should bring glory to God. Reading rubbish does not do so in my humble opinion.
the average Christian, including pastors/ministers/elders/priests the focus must be on Jesus and remembering that whatever we do it should bring glory to God. Reading rubbish does not do so in my humble opinion.
I agree with you. However, I suspect much of the Logos market is not the "average" Christians ... as for pastors/ministers/elders/priests is really depends upon their charisms and ministry.
Logos rubbish books don't make decent bonfires. [:'(]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Logos sends a personal vision statement by selling such books or by not selling such books. That personal vision may or may not be customer driven.
That is not a forum issue one way or the other.
May I respectfully suggest that this may be a 'corporate non-statement'? - rather than the personal vision statement you suggest.
Perhaps a list of put-in-L books came up, + the person so tasked just did it.
Maybe they knew this book was iffy, but the worker smiled +put it for sale.
Logos' lack of attention to their book catalogue stands out to me as a shoulder shrug. Mgt is weak here.
I see a git-'er-done + move on vibe. Some books don't have: listed authors, bios of authors, # pages listed, sample installed. Some titles are future enough that certain data cannot be provided, but I see corporate indifference re lack of improvement. Indifference = corporate non-statement.
Logos' lack of attention to their book catalogue stands out to me as a shoulder shrug. Mgt is weak here.
And that's my core issue here, more than any one particular title.
I've mentioned my favorite woodworking store a couple of times. They have a small book section with books on woodworking, furniture design and construction, tools and techniques, project plans, wood finishing and so on. But you're never going to find a book on witchcraft there. (And, by the way, that's not censorship - they're a specialty retailer, and everything they offer is related to their particular specialty.)
But while I don't expect it, I honestly wouldn't be completely shocked if one day I saw Logos offering Bob Flexner's "Understanding Wood Finishing" or Fine Woodworking's "In the Craftsman Style" - and that's just sad.
and that's just sad.
Not getting excited, but Libby used to offer model railroading ... among other great spiritual tomes (notice how I used 'other', confusing the flow). I don't remember FL saying they were going to tighten up their model railroading offering: https://www.logos.com/search?query=title%3Arailroad&sortBy=Relevance&limit=60&page=1&ownership=all&geographicAvailability=all (I'm surprised, so many in Florida).
And indeed thru the Bob-ian years, they seemed quite comfortable with a very wide assortment. Remember the 'Shades of Grey' question, and the ambulances required for all the heart attacks?
Now, for clarity, Libby's interest in tiny trains, doesn't speak to your preferences; not trying to confuse that issue. Only to say, the company has long had a wide vision of content.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
I can tell you about the real books that you should read to learn something but can assure you that you don’t really want to read those books and learn what’s in them.
I have read somewhere (can't remember where) that certain books, like religious objects, jewelry etc can attract demons into your house. If this is true, I guess the big question then would be whether or not demons attached to a book can operate through the conversion to digital format?
I did have an experience many years ago with such a book. I had been studying the topic of fasting and its spiritual implications. What you will discover if you search for books on fasting is that there are not a lot written by Christians that go very deep into the experience. There are tons of secular books on the topic now discussing the physical and health benefits, and there has been a virtual explosion in the interest in intermittent fasting. I have read or looked at most of them over the years.
But the number of really good Christian books discussing the experience of long term fasting is very small. Most of them are introductory level and only wade ankle deep into the experience. The most informative book I found on the experience was written by a man named Buhner, who is described as a herbalist and "sacred plant medicine" author.
The man gained his experience in part by leading people out into the desert on "vision quests" in the native American tradition, which included meeting your spirit guide etc. I was confident that I could take his religious connections with a grain of salt, and still gain some knowledge on the topic.
Turns out I was wrong,and I did have some real experiences after reading this book, and subsequently repented for having read it, and threw my copy of it in the trash. I also had the same book on my kindle, and it has the distinction of being the only book I have ever deleted from my kindle library.
I guess better buy it, before FL gets spooked! Oops, a prepub. Spook time. Actually, here in New-Age-Land, it's good to understand the thinking, before discussing Jesus. Most Christians haven't a clue. Once, in Bible class, a visitor asked about channeling Jesus. Reaction: frowns.
Either take away many more questionable books, or let anyone buy what interests them. Otherwise, it's selective censorship.
FL has definitely demonstrated selective censorship before. Reminds me of this thread: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/209579.aspx
That book got pulled so fast I didn't get a chance to buy it first. We were given no explanation as to why they decided to pull it.
It's very likely this was unintentional. In case you're unfamiliar with the paradigm: resources in ebook format are fed into an automated process for formatting and publishing. (My understanding is that it's a lot like sausage.) The trade-off for the low price (with low margins for Logos) is that it might not justify much editorial oversight and fastidious formatting. I appreciate your post and they'll probably pull this, but don't be surprised if you get a tongue-cluck or two from other users.
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
I have a bit more trust in Christians' ability to choose their books wisely. I find it insulting that others think I'm so ignorant and weak that they need to protect me -- or that pagan or shaman are more dangerous than heretics.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
I find it insulting that others think I'm so ignorant and weak that they need to protect me -- or that pagan or shaman are more dangerous than heretics.
Arguing that a particular book isn't a good choice for an digital Christian bookstore is not the same thing as saying that anyone is "so ignorant and weak" that they need to be protected. I also don't think anyone is arguing "that pagan or shaman are more dangerous than heretics."
Ultimately, FaithLife has to decide on the business strategy that they believe best fits with their mission and target customer base. I suspect I'm looking for a more curated set of offerings than you are. That doesn't mean you're wrong. But there's also nothing wrong with my expressing my own preferences as a customer.
But there's also nothing wrong with my expressing my own preferences as a customer.
Expressing to remove a title that another Logos user might need? Or simply liking/not. I think you're the latter. The OP is the former.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
But there's also nothing wrong with my expressing my own preferences as a customer.Expressing to remove a title that another Logos user might need? Or simply liking/not. I think you're the latter. The OP is the former.
Perhaps. But let's be fair. If my favorite specialty woodworking store started stocking cheap import tools, I'd almost certainly suggest they stop carrying them. There's nothing nefarious about that. If someone wants a cheap "use once and discard" tool, they can go to Harbor Freight (I've bought a few "disposable" tools there). But that's not what I look for from a specialty retailer.
Of course, you and MJ may think of Logos more as a "big box" store that carries everything - which is fine. That may ultimately be the model FaithLife adopts. But again, I don't think arguing that they should be more selective is a personal insult against anyone.
There are many books in Logos that address Paganism, Wicca, and ritual magic. I would prefer that people could use their own discernment about such a book instead of just taking it out because someone doesn't like it. One might think Logos is exclusively Christian, but in practice, the site sells more than just Christian literature. Either take away many more questionable books, or let anyone buy what interests them. Otherwise, it's selective censorship.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/jimerwin/ - a postmodern pastor in a digital world
There are many books in Logos that address Paganism, Wicca, and ritual magic. I would prefer that people could use their own discernment about such a book instead of just taking it out because someone doesn't like it. One might think Logos is exclusively Christian, but in practice, the site sells more than just Christian literature. Either take away many more questionable books, or let anyone buy what interests them. Otherwise, it's selective censorship.
Well said! 👍
Otherwise, it's selective censorship.
And to add insult to injury, usually done without actually reading the book.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Otherwise, it's selective censorship.And to add insult to injury, usually done without actually reading the book.
I think we should stop and consider the arguments for a spell.
tootle pip
Mike
Now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs. Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
I think we should stop and consider the arguments for a spell.
mea culpa (aren't many spells in Latin?) [:)]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
https://www.logos.com/distribution-philosophy
If Faithlife had made its “distribution philosophy” webpage easier to find, I would have read it earlier and wouldn’t have posted objections to a book Faithlife is selling. There’s not much in their “distribution philosophy” that would prevent Faithlife from selling most of the inventory of any random occult bookstore, Muslim bookstore, Hindu bookstore, cult bookstore, etc, as well as the book in question.
Since Faithlife calls itself a Christian bookstore, I do ask that they consider more carefully what it means to honor God, and so made a distinction between 1) academic and historical books on witchcraft, paganism, amulets, other religions, and 2) contemporary “how to” books that glorify other religions and the occult and encourage the reader to follow them. (I was objecting to books in the 2nd category). But it’s their company, so I will not post any objections anymore. But I have to say, I’ve read a lot by the author in question, and tons of other stuff on the occult and other religions written by those who practice them, so many of the comments about me in this thread are untrue.
I agree. If this is a Christian bookstore, then it is understood to explicitly promote Jesus. Where that line is for the purpose of supporting anti Christian, pagan authors, agendas and teachings is a bit cloudy. But it's a fair expectation the OP is making inquiry into.
https://www.logos.com/distribution-philosophy
If Faithlife had made its “distribution philosophy” webpage easier to find, I would have read it earlier and wouldn’t have posted objections to a book Faithlife is selling. There’s not much in their “distribution philosophy” that would prevent Faithlife from selling most of the inventory of any random occult bookstore, Muslim bookstore, Hindu bookstore, cult bookstore, etc, as well as the book in question.
Since Faithlife calls itself a Christian bookstore, I do ask that they consider more carefully what it means to honor God, and so made a distinction between 1) academic and historical books on witchcraft, paganism, amulets, other religions, and 2) contemporary “how to” books that glorify other religions and the occult and encourage the reader to follow them. (I was objecting to books in the 2nd category). But it’s their company, so I will not post any objections anymore. But I have to say, I’ve read a lot by the author in question, and tons of other stuff on the occult and other religions written by those who practice them, so many of the comments about me in this thread are untrue.
I wish I hadn’t written the last sentence in my earlier post since it distracts from what I trying to say about honoring God, but I can’t edit it. So I thought I’d clarify that I didn’t buy the author’s stuff, I just found a few ways to read some of what she’s written because I had been mad that Logos/Faithlife was selling the book in question and I wasn’t sure if I wanted to start this thread or not.
In my earlier years I read a lot on the occult and other religions by those who practice them, and know more about different types of witchcraft and rituals than anyone should know. But as I was reading through her stuff on multiple subjects, I just became more angry that a “Christian bookstore” would sell a “how to” book on paganism by a practicing witch, regardless of whether some people on this forum consider her magic to be “white” rather than “black/dark” (By the way, many witches don’t like the terms “black/dark” and “white” magic, but I’m not going to get into how different witches define themselves).
After reading Logos’ “distribution philosophy” a few more times, I realize I might have been wrong to say in my post that “Faithlife calls itself a Christian bookstore,” because I'm not sure from that webpage if they actually do. But they do say that “Logos is a member of the Evangelical Christian Publishers Association through our ownership of Lexham Press, and we subscribe to the Statement of Faith of the Association.” So I repeat what I said in the rest of my post.
Faithlife, please don’t sell books like this. The author is a practicing witch, the book is about
how to practice witchcraft, and the “moon books” imprint webpage says its books are about “paganism and shamanism.”
Its valuable to have primary source books from any false religion and cult.
Thanks for making me aware. I pre-ordered it.
L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
Yeah, that's one I'm not likely to buy. I believe there's a need for Christians to understand modern paganism, but this isn't the kind of book I'm personally looking for FaithLife to provide.