ChatGPT vs Logos on what I thought would be a simple search

Adam Crafton · October 2023

So. . I'll admit I am not the best "searcher" but I find myself more and more going to ChatGPT to find verses, etc. that I can't quite get to in Logos. Can someone tell me how I would create a search to answer this question:

"which biblical verses indicate that God is responsible for bad things such as sickness, death, and natural disasters"

When I type this into ChatGPT I start getting verses that are generally what I am looking for and are very much an answer to that question. Here is a sample of the results:

Isaiah 45:7 (ESV): "I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things." This verse is sometimes used to argue that God is the ultimate source of both good and bad events in the world.
Amos 3:6 (ESV): "Is a trumpet blown in a city, and the people are not afraid? Does disaster come to a city, unless the LORD has done it?" This verse suggests that disasters do not occur without God's involvement.
Exodus 4:11 (ESV): "Then the LORD said to him, 'Who has made man's mouth? Who makes him mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the LORD?'" This verse is often cited to support the idea that God is responsible for physical ailments.
Job 1:21 (ESV): "And he said, 'Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked shall I return. The LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.'" In the book of Job, it is suggested that both blessings and tragedies come from the hand of God.
Deuteronomy 28:15 (ESV): "But if you will not obey the voice of the LORD your God or be careful to do all his commandments and his statutes that I command you today, then all these curses shall come upon you and overtake you." This verse outlines a connection between disobedience and God allowing curses or calamities.

When I think about a Logos search. . do I search for evil or "bad" or sickness or what?

So, any ideas on how to create a Logos search that will pull up all the verses that state or imply that God causes evil/bad/destruction/etc. . .

David Paul · October 2023

I have no idea if Logos has a one-stop-shop for this kind of search, and frankly, I doubt I would use it if it did. I suggest starting with a BWS search on either an English word or Hebrew word, and then find the synonyms and search them in turn. Maybe it's just me, but I find the learning is more sticky if I swing the pickax myself.

MJ. Smith · October 2023

Adam Crafton said:
"which biblical verses indicate that God is responsible for bad things such as sickness, death, and natural disasters"

Given the theological bias built into the question, I am glad Logos does not answer it - it would need to add an "according to" in front of the answer before I'd accept it. I am disturbed that ChatGPT provided an answer without such a disclaimer as it shows a major gap of knowledge in the engine. The question is the choice of the word "is responsible" where many would say "allow" or "permit".

David Paul · October 2023

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1274858#Comment_1274858

Yeah, it is theological...but He's pretty committed to His pride of Ownership shtick. Everything He allows and permits is 100% "plan", and if it's blueprint (and it's ALL blueprint), it's all on Him, and I'm quite sure He wouldn't have it any other way. The Scriptural things that make humans squeamishly uncomfortable...He doesn't flinch.

GaoLu · October 2023

Adam Crafton said:

So. . I'll admit I am not the best "searcher" but I find myself more and more going to ChatGPT to find verses, etc. that I can't quite get to in Logos. Can someone tell me how I would create a search to answer this question:

"which biblical verses indicate that God is responsible for bad things such as sickness, death, and natural disasters"

...

When I think about a Logos search. . do I search for evil or "bad" or sickness or what?

So, any ideas on how to create a Logos search that will pull up all the verses that state or imply that God causes evil/bad/destruction/etc. . .

ChatGPT did a pretty good job of providing some verses relevant to your area of interest. I wish Logos could do that based on both my resources and AI databases. I would like responses linked to my library where possible.

Currently, I can't think of a way to ask a ChatGPT type question and get a Logos type answer. You would have to ferret out verses from resources with a pickaxe. And you might be better for it.

Rosie Perera · October 2023

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1274927#Comment_1274927

I wondered if the new AI-enabled beta semantic search engine (https://beta.app.logos.com/search?kind=semantic ) would be able to find something helpful on this. It didn't package the results as nicely as ChatGPT did, as a list of Bible references. It would take a lot of work to poke through the answers looking for a list of relevant passages.

Lynden O. Williams · October 2023

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1274932#Comment_1274932

I would perform a factbook or topic search on evil, good. Not the same but it is a starting point.

diederick pütter · October 2023

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1274940#Comment_1274940

I still use google for most of my basic bible searches; logos still does not have the capability to interpret the way google does it searches. ChatGPT is the way to go. However, the only strength of logos is its language capabilities.

MJ. Smith · October 2023

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1275051#Comment_1275051

diederick pütter said:
I still use google for most of my basic bible searches;

I understand using Google, ChatGPT, Bard etc. I think it is appropriate. However, you need to remember Google is NOT searching the Bible text or searching detailed tagging of the Bible text. They are searching an undefined group of human interpretations of the Bible text ... there is nothing providing boundaries for accuracy or completeness.

David Paul · October 2023

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1275092#Comment_1275092

MJ. Smith said:
They are searching an undefined group of human interpretations of the Bible text ... there is nothing providing boundaries for accuracy or completeness.

And this is different than Logos and Verbum...how?

MJ. Smith · October 2023

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1275937#Comment_1275937

The use of SME's (subject matter experts)

GaoLu · October 2023

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1275939#Comment_1275939

There is heightened risk in letting "SME's do my choosing for me. No doubt there is some benefit of quality, and yet, I prefer to think and choose for myself. I don't want SME's telling me what I ought to think any more than GhatGPT.

When I sort of trust some unknown expert, I may be less likely to doublecheck accuracy than if I am certain that some answers may be off plumb.

Each method has its pros and cons, which is why I want both.

Ron Baughman · December 2023

This thread makes me wonder how Logos will incorporate the power of AI or ChatGTP in future editions. You know it has to come....

xnman · December 2023

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1279637#Comment_1279637

One of the issues of Logos Search, imho, is that it seems to be built around SQL type of "searching" and GPT is not. I think Logos Search was improved with L10... but I don't think adding more top level "hierarchal" branches is the answer. Try as I may, I seem to get in the wrong "top branch" and then spend my time trying to figure out what branch I should have been in and where do I need a period or "intersect" or .... And by the time I figure out how to write the "search question" I forget what I was searching for.

I've come to the conclusion that everyone else that uses Logos is smarter than me and maybe this is what Logos Search has taught me. But I still try.... and every once in a while... Search actually works for me..... and that gives me hope! It's like playing golf, when you get that one fantastic drive or great putt and think.... "I can master this game!" even if my score is 99. [8-|]

DMB · December 2023

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1279755#Comment_1279755

xnman said:
I've come to the conclusion that everyone else that uses Logos is smarter than me

Excellent conclusion ... but wrong. In FL's defense, their market needed (and needs) exactness. Protestantism is a word-based religion. Words count. Grammar. Syntax. Exactness. So, sources need to be exact. Queries need to be exact.

On the other hand ... is the rest of the market. They want in-the-ballpark, and then review where the ball fell. The problem with the 'AI' chat'ers and summerize-ers, is they don't present the ballpark for choosing ... they present a re-constructed ballpark and you take a look. Might be good! Or not.

My criticism of Logos UI designs, is not recognizing the 2 groups early on :

- Logos doesn't allow for sub-searches (versus demanding the user re-do the search string ... and know how)

- Doesn't group the results relative to the users' source tagging. And barely sorts, intelligently.

- Tries to be too cute. Places key information (eg Book title) in low-contract, small-font, secondary locations

Which suggests ... their market is the academic users. No, not even the students.

Olli-Pekka Ylisuutari · December 2023

Adam Crafton said:

Can someone tell me how I would create a search to answer this question:

"which biblical verses indicate that God is responsible for bad things such as sickness, death, and natural disasters"

How about a search string like this:

“God" WITHIN 20 WORDS "responsible" WITHIN 20 WORDS "good” WITHIN 20 WORDS "bad"

The above search brings out some interesting results, at least in my library:

“For Amos, YHWH is the God of all peoples and responsible for everything that happens, good and bad.”

The search even finds many of the passages that ChatGTP found out for you:

“The prophets had argued consistently that the one God YHWH was responsible for everything that happened, good and bad. “Does disaster befall a city,” asked Amos, “unless the Lord has done it?” (Amos 3:6). In the words of Second Isaiah: “I am the Lord, and there is no other. I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe; I the Lord do all these things” (Isa 45:6–7). Job draws the logical conclusion. YHWH must also be responsible for the injustice that is rampant on earth.”

or:

"As Creator, responsible for all that happens in his world, he is able to make everything (good and bad) work together into good."

or:

"If God makes peace and creates evil as much as good, and if God is responsible for all that happens, including these things, then God does the bad as much as the good things that happen to us. And that raises, for Judaism, the problem of evil, for evil in the world requires an explanation: how can God, who is good and also all-powerful, permit it?"

The search aboce even finds new Bible passages, such as Lamentations 3: 38:

"send both calamity and good. In Israel’s worldview, God was ultimately responsible for the bad (raʿah [7451B, 8288], “evil,” “disaster”) and good (tob [2896B, 3205])."