Lucan Intertextuality in John's Gospel
This is a tangent of differential research of my paper on John's use of the Gospel of Luke. I have read many commentaries on the Gospel of John and do not see any Lucan intertextual and interpolated statements. Should I be searching commentaries on Luke and would this kind of information be found in a commentary? The common consensus, as far as my research has gone is that John was consciously and keenly aware of the Synoptic Gospel tradition but did not substantially rely on the other Gospel traditions while writing his Gospel. One of my scholar friends told me to go find a copy of The Gospel and the Gospels: Christian Proclamation and Early Jesus Books by Simon Gathercole. I have got it on InterLibrary Loan from a library in my county. I did a search on all resources for "Luke NEAR intertextual" and "John NEAR intertextual" with match case set on both searches. How can I find information on this using Logos Bible Software?
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The common consensus, as far as my research has gone is that John was consciously and keenly aware of the Synoptic Gospel tradition
Consensus as in guessing. 'Consciously'? 'Keenly'?
I know you don't like this answer, but studying the text yourself would work wonders. That sounds trite (doctrinal!). But actually I'm referring to just sit down with a pad of paper, and write out the basic sequence in Mark (scholarly guessing places him as a likely base). Then, go thru Luke (ignoring so-called 'Q'), and notice what Luke CHANGES (adjust details, or adds). Then go thru John watching Luke vs Mark.
Logosians would pipe up with harmonies, etc, but I'm a big believer in word-by-word ... the hard way. Remember, authors write word-by-word, quite slowly and carefully. Granted you're out of time for your paper.
This morning my reading centered on the post-death sequence in Mark>Matt>Luke>John and how the details shifted (the primary shift being at Luke). Now, that doesn't imply John used Luke. It could also mean the traditions shifted ... maybe more disciple information, who knows.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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The Gospel and the Gospels: Christian Proclamation and Early Jesus Books by Simon Gathercole.
The book you reference, the Kindle version is priced reasonably.Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.1 1TB SSD
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This is a tangent of differential research of my paper on John's use of the Gospel of Luke.
I want to second DMB view from a slightly different perspective. If I am to believe that you want to do real research on a topic, I need to see your questions focusing on a single topic for a week or more and for a mixture of general and detail questions within that topic. Flitting from topic to topic and expecting to find resources with all your answers rather than doing your own time-consuming research doesn't help you actually learn anything. It makes me feel like time spent finding resources for you is a waste of my time. Even if you accept others' scholarship, if you don't repeat at least part of the research, you are unlikely to actually understand their conclusion. Please show the concentration on a topic and the refinement of your questions to make me feel that answering your question is a useful activity.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I have read many commentaries on the Gospel of John and do not see any Lucan intertextual and interpolated statements
Good! Why is that not your conclusion? I can't find "John WITHIN 100 WORDS Luke". But I can find 178 cross-references to Luke in John's Gospel i.e. crossReference:bible:Luke in ESV. Try to make something intertextual from that.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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But I can find 178 cross-references to Luke in John's Gospel i.e. crossReference:bible:Luke in ESV. Try to make something intertextual from that.
By comparison, the book of Revelation has 96 Intertext passages which contain 486 OT cross-references. Only 86 cross-references are outside Intertext passages (Echo included).
Query: crossReference:bible:Gen-Mal IN intertext:Source:Bible:Gen-Mal
"Intertextuality is not a term John was familiar with, but it is a term that expresses something he did. If John’s traditions, and Jesus’ teachings are to have any meaning, John repeated and rethought what they meant. I approach Revelation as an important tradition that also needs to be considered well, and rethought". Mark Bredin, Jesus, Revolutionary of Peace: A Nonviolent Christology in the Book of Revelation p 24.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Hi DMB and MJ. I did what you said on comparing John and Luke and then Mark. This was a fruitful analysis. Since my paper is going to analyze John 19-21. I started in John 18 to get a good background.
Close readers of the Gospels will notice that John's timing of the Last Supper differs from that of the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke). The disciples cooked the Passover dinner "on the first day of Unleavened Bread," or Thursday night, according to the Synoptics (Mark 14:12; see also Matt. 26:17; Luke 22:7). Judas was on his way to betray Him. Jesus was arrested in the middle of the night. On Friday, he was crucified. He was buried until Sunday morning, when He was risen from the dead. When the Jews went to Pilate after the Last Supper, John states, "They themselves did not enter the governor's headquarters, so that they would not be defiled, but could eat the Passover" (John 18:28). He then later says, after Jesus was crucified, that “it was the day of Preparation of the Passover” (John 19:14). This means that Jesus’ arrest and trial would have happened before Passover, unlike in the Synoptics, where Jesus’ arrest and trial happened after Passover. So this is a good starting point to base my discussion. How and why John used the Synoptics is important to me.
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I can find 178 cross-references to Luke in John's Gospel i.e. crossReference:bible:Luke in ESV. Try to make something intertextual from that.
I could never make the cross reference search work. It always said invalid format. I used "crossReference:Gospel of Luke". That was my mistake. Next, is there a way to limit this to only John chapters 18-21? I tried doing this and cannot make it work. Also would there be more or less cross references in other Bible translations? That is another thing I am trying to pin down in my discussion.
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So this is a good starting point to base my discussion. How and why John used the Synoptics is important to me.
Keep going, Christian. The more you review, the more you learn ... it's very satisfying.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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That was my mistake. Next, is there a way to limit this to only John chapters 18-21?
You can use crossReference:bible:Luke IN milestone:bible:"Jn 18-21"
Also would there be more or less cross references in other Bible translations?
Yes - it would vary depending on the cross references introduced by the translators.
NIV and ESV, for example, give different results. If you try the same thing in the NLT you get no results at all
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I could never make the cross reference search work. It always said invalid format. I used "crossReference:Gospel of Luke". That was my mistake.
Always start a Bible reference with bible: and then type the passage e.g. bible:luke
Next, is there a way to limit this to only John chapters 18-21?
Also would there be more or less cross references in other Bible translations? That is another thing I am trying to pin down in my discussion.
Yes, it does depend on the translation. You can see that if you run the cross reference search on a collection of bibles. It illustrates the subjectivity of cross references and ultimately, intertextuality within the NT corpus e.g. who did Luke use?
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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