Betrayal of Jesus disciples

The disciples are characters important to the storyline of John’s gospel. Christ forewarns of betrayal and denial among some of his disciples as he approaches his crucifixion. Judas is the first to fall into the trap, and then Peter.If Peter's turnabout was taken into consideration, might their offense be considered equally serious? I've researched this in books. It appears there is two types of repents and denials.

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MJ. Smith

denials/betrayals:

Judas Iscariot
Peter
all disciples except John
Thomas

How can any person judge the seriousness of another's betrayal ? Have we suddenly learned to read others minds? the choices available to them as limited by their previous experiences?

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1280890#Comment_1280890

Then, there's some [disciples/specificallly-11] that didn't believe ... watching Jesus power up to Heaven. I'd think that's pretty 'denial'-ish.

Dave Hooton

If Peter's turnabout was taken into consideration, might their offense be considered equally serious? I've researched this in books. It appears there is two types of repents and denials.

Acts 5:1-11, Hebrews 6:1-8 give us food for thought One author has commented that Peter can be compared with Judas, but you are probably correct about two types of denials (Mt 10:33 & Mark 16:7). Does one 'judge' Lot differently to 2Pe 2:7-9 (or Gen 18:23, 19:16)? Only God knows.

Christ forewarns of betrayal and denial among some of his disciples as he approaches his crucifixion

Betrayal seems to be the worst (Mt 26:24)

Christian Alexander

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1280952#Comment_1280952

These are all great starting points. I have another question in response. Would betrayal be the same as blasphemy? Blasphemy frequently arises when individuals refuse to adore and thank the Lord Jesus Christ. It is repeatedly said that Judas "betrayed" Jesus, yet many people conflate the words "betray" with "deny." Betraying Jesus and rejecting who Jesus is are two very distinct things with quite different consequences. In 1 John 5:16, John instructs us to pray for individuals who commit sins that do not result in death. Is this death meant to be spiritual or physical? I think it is referring to physical.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1281065#Comment_1281065

There may be some overlap in meaning for betrayal and blasphemy but they certainly are not synonyms.

James Johnson

Luke 22:31–32 (LSB)
31“Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded to sift all of you like wheat.
32“But I have prayed earnestly for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, once you have returned, strengthen your brothers.”

Luke 22:31–32 (ESV)
31“Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat,
32but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.”

Luke 22:31–32 (NASB95)
31“Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat;
32but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.”

Luke 22:31–32 (KJV 1900)
31And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
32But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

We can see a few things happening int he text here, I would first like to point out that Jesus prayed for Peters faith, where as he did not for Judas. Jesus also predicted that Peter would turn back, and told him to strengthen the brethren when he did so. Jesus predicted the fall of both Judas and Peter however, Peter was predestined for righteousness, where as Judas was predestined for wrath.

In the 4 translations above we can see that there is a problem in translation LSB, and the NLT both make the text say that Satan wanted to stiff all of them like wheat so the next question I would ask is who are the "all" are they the Apostles or everyone in attendance when Jesus is speaking? I would assume the text is trying to say the apostles, however the Greek actually does not have these words as shown below.

I used the LSB for an example.

I think that the offence is clearly different. Judas was determined to sellout Jesus for money, planed it and went through with it where as Peter was determined to die for Jesus, fell short denied Christ, realized what he did, repented and ultimately died for his faith in Christ and even went so far as to being crucified upside down because he did not find himself worthy to die the same way as his Savor.

I don't think we need any commentary to see this however, I can only talk for myself.

I hope this contrast helps you in your study and remember I am no scholar, just a layperson diligently studying scripture to come closer to my God.

Blessings.

Olli-Pekka Ylisuutari

might their offense be considered equally serious?

Martin Luther: "We must make a distinction between Peter and Judas with reference to the heinousness of their crimes. For, while both transgress the will of God and subject themselves to everlasting condemnation, Judas’ sin is greater than that of Peter."

In: Martin Luther, “Fifth Passion-Sermon: Peter Thrice Denies the Lord Jesus in the House of Caiaphas,” in Sermons on the Passion of Christ, trans. Isensee J. T. (Rock Island, IL: Lutheran Augustana Book Concern, 1871), 91.

Or, in Logos:

Sermons on the Passion of Christ | Logos Bible Software

But the biggest difference between Judas and Peter, according to Luther, lies not in the difference in the degree or the severity of their respective sins, but rather in how they handled their despair after their sins and whether they clinged to the gospel or the promise of God:

"On this point Judas and Peter differ. Judas looks only at the enormity of his sins, falls into despair, thinks that all eternity can afford him neither counsel nor aid, and then the poor fellow goes and hangs himself. And why? Simply because he had despised God’s Word and had not been bettered by it. When he now stood in need of consolation, but did not have the Word and desired not to turn to the Lord Jesus in faith, he was beyond all reach of help. Peter also wept bitterly, and feared and trembled on account of his sins, but he had more diligently heard and better remembered the Word of the Lord Jesus. Therefore, when he now finds himself in distress, he makes use of the Word, thinks of that which Christ has told him, clings to this, consoles himself with it, and hopes that God will be merciful to him. In such misery this is the true relief, which poor Judas lacked. But that this was really the course Peter took, and that he did abide by God’s Word and grace, the Lord testifies in the 22. chapter of Luke, saying: “I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not.” While he was denying Christ, we do not see that there was a spark of faith in his heart; but afterwards, when his conscience was aroused and he was tortured by it, his faith returned, preserving to him this Word of Christ, and preventing him from falling into despair."

(Same resource)

Yasmin Stephen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1281105#Comment_1281105

In the 4 translations above we can see that there is a problem in translation LSB, and the NLT both make the text say that Satan wanted to stiff all of them like wheat so the next question I would ask is who are the "all" are they the Apostles or everyone in attendance when Jesus is speaking? I would assume the text is trying to say the apostles, however the Greek actually does not have these words as shown below.

I don't know Greek but the morphology for the "you" here seems to indicate that the word is plural? Above my paygrade; someone else will have to chime in. If that's the case, however, I would think the LSB and NLT are correct, and are only making the verse clearer by the extra words they added. (And I now better appreciate the advice to read across multiple translations; I always thought the 'you' in question was only Peter. Also, Factbook tagging identifies the 'you' as the apostles ... maybe I should pay more attention to Factbook tagging [:P])

Olli-Pekka Ylisuutari

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1281105#Comment_1281105

who are the "all" are they the Apostles or everyone in attendance when Jesus is speaking? I would assume the text is trying to say the apostles, however the Greek actually does not have these words as shown below.

A kind correction as to what you said: The Greek does have "all of you." The word ὑμᾶς is the plural of "you", not singular as in "you yourself". That´s why the italicized words "all of you."

Olli-Pekka Ylisuutari

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1281122#Comment_1281122

the "you" here seems to indicate that the word is plural?

Hah, Yasmin beat me to it! [:D]

James Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1281122#Comment_1281122

In the 4 translations above we can see that there is a problem in translation LSB, and the NLT both make the text say that Satan wanted to stiff all of them like wheat so the next question I would ask is who are the "all" are they the Apostles or everyone in attendance when Jesus is speaking? I would assume the text is trying to say the apostles, however the Greek actually does not have these words as shown below.

I don't know Greek but the morphology for the "you" here seems to indicate that the word is plural? Above my paygrade; someone else will have to chime in. If that's the case, however, I would think the LSB and NLT are correct, and are only making the verse clearer by the extra words they added. (And I now better appreciate the advice to read across multiple translations; I always thought the 'you' in question was only Peter. Also, Factbook tagging identifies the 'you' as the apostles ... maybe I should pay more attention to Factbook tagging )

Ahh see I didn't even look at the morphology! Ahh I feel like I should have looked better at the verse. Sorry about that and thank you for that correction. I just noticed that there were no words for the Greek, however the plural for you makes perfect sense. Guess I'm going to do a lot more morphology in sky studies now.

James Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1281123#Comment_1281123

who are the "all" are they the Apostles or everyone in attendance when Jesus is speaking? I would assume the text is trying to say the apostles, however the Greek actually does not have these words as shown below.

A kind correction as to what you said: The Greek does have "all of you." The word ὑμᾶς is the plural of "you", not singular as in "you yourself". That´s why the italicized words "all of you."

Thank you for that! As above I'll look into the morphology more often.