What does deleting the mobile app actually do?

To test something I just deleted the Logos app on my iPhone- choosing the option to delete the data.
When I download the app again and start it, it correctly recognises that I am not logged in

but when I tap the books option it shows my complete library - and I can open them if I wish.

Shouldn’t deleting the app remove knowledge of my books until I log back in again?

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Comments

Myke Harbuck

Did you restart your device before reinstalling? I've found that this is required sometimes to clear all of the stored data for programs.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282629#Comment_1282629

Did you restart your device before reinstalling?

Thanks Myke - good idea.

I hadn't - but I now have and it didn't change anything.

I can still see all the books in my library without signing in

Myke Harbuck

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282638#Comment_1282638

Did you re-delete the app before the restart? If not, the restart would not have been effective.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282641#Comment_1282641

Did you re-delete the app before the restart? If not, the restart would not have been effective.

I forget what steps I took so I've just deleted the app, restarted the iPhone, reinstalled the app and I can still see all my books in the library without signing in.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282644#Comment_1282644

When I was more regularly beta testing the mobile app I discovered a bloating effect… that is to say that some things did not fully delete after “deleting” the app. I don’t have any sort of real numbers to provide (perhaps I did in some long forgotten forum), but if the app were 500 mb, deleting the app only freed up a fraction of that space. Continual reinstalls led to diminishing free space in my device and I had to wipe the device and start over. I never found out if that was an iOS or logos bug. I wonder if your experience is related.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282657#Comment_1282657

This is also one of the reasons I am so persistent in encouraging judicious use of downloading resources

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282657#Comment_1282657

I wonder if your experience is related.

Potentially - but even though it might not be clearing space properly I am very surprised I can still access resources without logging in.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282658#Comment_1282658

This is also one of the reasons I am so persistent in encouraging judicious use of downloading resources

Yes - but this isn't related to downloading resources. I can see resources in my library whether they are downloaded or not.

Don Awalt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282671#Comment_1282671

Graham is this an Apple device or Android?

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282685#Comment_1282685

Graham is this an Apple device or Android?

It's an iPhone

Don Awalt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282723#Comment_1282723

Interesting. I just tried it on my iPhone. Mine is a little different, I am running Verbum in the beta program (although I don't think a beta version is out yet for v.31, see version info below), so I install it from TestFlight. But here is what I saw:

1. Like you, I uninstalled the Verbum app and data;

2. I restarted the iPhone;

3. From TestFlight I installed the Verbum app;

4. I ran it - it showed a panel saying to pick a Bible - I was able to tap out of that, then I tapped library at the bottom;

5. Two Bibles showed when I tapped library - it said "Loading data" at the top, and the progress bar was visible - but the progress bar never advanced, and no new books populated the library. It stayed that way for 30 minutes. The iPhone was on fast WiFi and power.

6. So then I logged into my account. It went back to the library panel and started populating immediately - took about 5 minutes to load everything (not download!), and index the library, then it appeared ready to go.

I am on iOS 17.2.1, Verbum/Mac 31.0.0.

So something is causing things not to clear on your iPhone...?

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282742#Comment_1282742

5. Two Bibles showed when I tapped library - it said "Loading data" at the top, and the progress bar was visible - but the progress bar never advanced, and no new books populated the library. It stayed that way for 30 minutes. The iPhone was on fast WiFi and power.

That's very interesting - and thanks for checking

So something is causing things not to clear on your iPhone...?

Yes - and the only differences I can see in our setup is that you installed from TestFlight while I installed from the Apple Appstore.

And I was running iOS 17.1.2 - updating now

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282753#Comment_1282753

And I was running iOS 17.1.2 - updating now

I updated to 17.1.2 - deleted the app, restarted the iPhone, reinstalled the app.

It still shows as not logged in but with access to all my library.

Don Awalt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282758#Comment_1282758

Hmm. How about checking the Offload Unused Apps setting.... but before you do, go to Go to Settings > General -> iPhone Storage, and scroll down the list of apps AFTER you uninstall Logos app. Does it show up there as using storage If so, I bet it's this -- go to Settings > General -> iPhone Storage (same page you were on in Settings) -> Offload Unused Apps. Is it Enabled? If Yes your apps aren't really deleted. Just Un-enable this feature and see what happens.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282760#Comment_1282760

Thanks for sticking with this Don!

Go to Settings > General -> iPhone Storage, and scroll down the list of apps AFTER you uninstall Logos app. Does it show up there as using storage

No it doesn't

bet it's this -- go to Settings > General -> iPhone Storage (same page you were on in Settings) -> Offload Unused Apps. Is it Enabled?

It was enabled - but I found it in Settings -> App Store (not Settings -> iPhone Storage). Has it moved?

I disabled it, delated the app and restarted the iPhone. When I reinstalled the app, I could still see all the books in my library!

Yasmin Stephen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282767#Comment_1282767

I tested with my iPhone and it works like it's supposed to:

Deleted and reinstalled the app:

Library before signing in:

Library after signing in:

(iPhone 13 Pro, iOS 17.2.1, Logos 30.0.4)

Don Awalt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282767#Comment_1282767

bet it's this -- go to Settings > General -> iPhone Storage (same page you were on in Settings) -> Offload Unused Apps. Is it Enabled?

It was enabled - but I found it in Settings -> App Store (not Settings -> iPhone Storage). Has it moved?

Ah - my place was a 'Recommendation' that it inserts from time to time, it took me to the setting you saw. I am flummoxed - let me keep thinking...

Don Awalt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282781#Comment_1282781

I forgot from before, mostly because it can't be dealt with - an app under iOS stores a persistent identifier in the iOS keychain, even after uninstalling and reinstalling an app. But no one can get to it or modify/delete it. Are you using Logos or Verbum? One possibility that only the Logos tech guys (Bradley?) could answer, is whether it's possible that the Logos iOS app stores persistent credentials data in the iOS keychain, and Verbum does not.

How about this - can you install Verbum app on your iPhone, log in to see all your stuff, then uninstall the app, restart, reinstall Verbum, and see if the same problem occurs?

Second thing - what if you logged out of the app before you uninstalled it, then restarted, etc. etc.? To me that might indicate credentials being kept in the iOS keychain too (although someone like Bradley would have to verify all this)

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282772#Comment_1282772

I tested with my iPhone and it works like it's supposed to:

Thanks for checking Yasmin.

It's good to get confirmation that its not a general problem - maybe something specific to my phone!

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282784#Comment_1282784

How about this - can you install Verbum app on your iPhone, log in to see all your stuff, then uninstall the app, restart, reinstall Verbum, and see if the same problem occurs?

Very interesting - I've just tried that and the Verbum app is behaving correctly, just showing a very few numbers of books. So your idea that the Logos app might be holding things whereas the Verbum one isn't is looking good!

Yasmin - were you testing using Logos or Verbum?

Second thing - what if you logged out of the app before you uninstalled it, then restarted, etc. etc.?

There isn't a logout option in the app - and that's something that has been discussed on a number of occasions but the developers never saw it as necessary. Maybe this is a niche case where it would be!

Yasmin Stephen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282789#Comment_1282789

Yasmin - were you testing using Logos or Verbum?

I'm using the Logos app. And, if matters at all, I use LastPass to manage my passwords, not Keychain.

Don Awalt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282790#Comment_1282790

Yeah, it might be time to see if Bradley could jump in and give us some insight as to what might be happening. We have narrowed it down some, but knowledge of the backend/software would be helpful!

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282790#Comment_1282790

I'm using the Logos app.

So ir's not a Logos / Verbum difference specifically. Even though the Logos / Verbum behaviours on my iPhone are different!

And, if matters at all, I use LastPass to manage my passwords, not Keychain.

I use LastPass as well but I believe, though know very little about it, that Keychain is present on all Apple devices and provides the base password management capabilities (among other things)

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282793#Comment_1282793

Yeah, it might be time to see if Bradley could jump in and give us some insight as to what might be happening. We have narrowed it down some, but knowledge of the backend/software would be helpful!

Agreed - that sounds like it could be really useful!

Don Awalt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282795#Comment_1282795

One more thing I thought of this morning Graham, I wonder if your Logos is using iCloud to store data - then it could be persisted across app installs. Settings, tap your picture at the top, iCloud...you'll see "Apps using iCloud". Tap the "Show All". Does Logos show up there, and if so is it on? It doesn't show up for me but I thought it;s worth it to check.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282823#Comment_1282823

Settings, tap your picture at the top, iCloud...you'll see "Apps using iCloud". Tap the "Show All". Does Logos show up there, and if so is it on?

Thanks for the thought Don - but, as on yours, it doesn't show there.

Todd Diehl (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282827#Comment_1282827

Hello Graham, your problem is a bit vexing! Would you be able to "Report a Problem" on your iPhone, and send those logs in so I can take a look?

I suspect the problem is isolated to this one device (i.e. if you have an iPad, it likely won't also happen there).

Ironically, I've recently had this happen to me on a test device in the office. I believe I can explain why that might be for my test device, but unfortunately that wouldn't likely explain what is happening to you. Regardless, I'll see if we can come up with a fix for you.

Todd Diehl (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282943#Comment_1282943

Another thing to try, Graham, would be to delete _all_ Logos apps on your device (Logos, Verbum, Faithlife Study Bible, etc), restart the device, then try to re-install the Logos app.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282943#Comment_1282943

Hi Todd

Thanks for chiming in.

Would you be able to "Report a Problem" on your iPhone, and send those logs in so I can take a look?

I have just sent them through - in the body of the message I mentioned they were for your attention

I suspect the problem is isolated to this one device (i.e. if you have an iPad, it likely won't also happen there).

I expect you are right - but would rather not delete it on the iPad, there are quite a few downloaded resources.

Ironically, I've recently had this happen to me on a test device in the office. I believe I can explain why that might be for my test device, but unfortunately that wouldn't likely explain what is happening to you. Regardless, I'll see if we can come up with a fix for you.

That's interesting - and thank you.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282949#Comment_1282949

Another thing to try, Graham, would be to delete _all_ Logos apps on your device (Logos, Verbum, Faithlife Study Bible, etc), restart the device, then try to re-install the Logos app.

I just tried this - even including Proclam - and, after reinstalling the app, I still see all the books in my Library without having to log in!

Todd Diehl (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282958#Comment_1282958

Graham, in the past, did you use one of our old app extensions? Perhaps the Verse of the Day "Today" widget, or the iMessage extension? If so, could you just ensure that those also appear to be deleted?

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1282972#Comment_1282972

Hi Todd

Graham, in the past, did you use one of our old app extensions? Perhaps the Verse of the Day "Today" widget, or the iMessage extension?

I seem to remember using the Verse of the Day widget but think it was on a previous phone

There are no indications of any Logos-related widget on the phone now.

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