Lemma searches don't return proper results when textual variants are present in the text
I've been noticing that lemma searches don't return all the results. Whenever there is a textual variant marker between two lemmas being searched, Logos won't return that text as a valid search result. For example, in the following three searches of The New Testament in the Original Greek: Byzantine Textform 2005, with Morphology. Logos Bible Software, 2006, Matthew 16:20 & Acts 9:34 should show up every time.
When searching for this phrase, no results are displayed: lemma.g:Ἰησοῦς BEFORE 4 CHARS lemma.g:ὁ BEFORE 4 CHARS lemma.g:Χριστός
When searching for the following phrase instead of a lemma, both passages show up in the results: "Ἰησοῦς ὁ χριστός"
When searching for the following lemma phrase, Acts 9:34 doesn't show up: lemma.g:ὁ BEFORE 4 CHARS lemma.g:Χριστός
In both of the lemma searches above, a textual variant seems to be preventing proper search results.
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Couldn't see your examples; did you use the paperclip, in the post-editor?
But just curious, what happens when you turn off the apparatus display (visual filter)? (Not a solution)
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Couldn't see your examples; did you use the paperclip, in the post-editor?
But just curious, what happens when you turn off the apparatus display (visual filter)? (Not a solution)
Here are the screenshots. I'll try to remember to use the paperclip next time. Thanks.
Hiding non-Bible text using the visual filter had no effect.
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In both of the lemma searches above, a textual variant seems to be preventing proper search results.
I agree that this does seem to be causing a problem.
It does return results if you substitute 4 CHARS with 1 WORDS
Does that help at all?
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It does return results if you substitute 4 CHARS with 1 WORDS
Interesting. That returned some unwanted results. I was able to get the results I wanted by changing the 4 to a 5 in the position with the variant marker. But that only worked because I knew the marker was there. When I changed both numbers to 5, I got the same unwanted results that showed up with 1 WORDS.
I'll have to figure out how to use those proximity operators. There must be a better way to search.
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It does return results if you substitute 4 CHARS with 1 WORDS
Does that help at all?
Actually, this solution does work. The "unwanted result" I saw was just something that I was missing because of the default search options. Is there a way I can change the default search to use THEN instead of 4 CHARS? The CHARS operator seems like a strange default.
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the default search options
I'm not sure what you mean by default search options.
How are you generating the search - if not entering the terms manually?
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When searching for this phrase, no results are displayed: lemma.g:Ἰησοῦς BEFORE 4 CHARS lemma.g:ὁ BEFORE 4 CHARS lemma.g:Χριστός
5 CHARS is needed, but it would allow a short word in between e.g. ὁ δὲ χριστὸς. But why insist on an exact CHAR spacing?
lemma.g:Ἰησοῦς THEN lemma.g:ὁ THEN lemma.g:Χριστός provides the results without the technicalities of spacing.
When searching for the following phrase instead of a lemma, both passages show up in the results: "Ἰησοῦς ὁ χριστός"
I think it is equivalent to Ἰησοῦς THEN ὁ THEN χριστός i.e. word spacing instead of exact CHAR spacing
When searching for the following lemma phrase, Acts 9:34 doesn't show up: lemma.g:ὁ BEFORE 4 CHARS lemma.g:Χριστός
That omits a lot more verses. Use lemma.g:ὁ THEN lemma.g:Χριστός
In both of the lemma searches above, a textual variant seems to be preventing proper search results.
Textual variant characters affect CHAR spacing in unexpected ways e.g. try it with the double ones (and comma) in Acts 9:33. But word spacing always works e.g. κραββάτῳ THEN ὃς (or κραββάτῳ BEFORE 1 WORD ὃς).
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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But why insist on an exact CHAR spacing?
That is the default search parameter, and I did not know how to change it. Is there a way to change the default from BEFORE 4 CHARS to THEN?
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How are you generating the search - if not entering the terms manually?
I'm just selecting the Bible text and then clicking SEARCH in the box that pops up.
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How are you generating the search - if not entering the terms manually?
I'm just selecting the Bible text and then clicking SEARCH in the box that pops up.
And you get a phrase search with quotes, or a CHAR search depending what you click.
Just avoid the CHAR search, or replace with THEN in the Search box.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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I'm just selecting the Bible text and then clicking SEARCH in the box that pops up.
Thanks - that clarifies things.
This is using the Selection Menu which provides a range of options including Search.
And that does use 4 CHARS to separate multiple terms.
We don't have any control over that - though I think it would be good if Logos could look at it and change to using THEN.
In the meantime, I think the only option is to enter the search terms manually.
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Thanks - that clarifies things.
This is using the Selection Menu which provides a range of options including Search.
And that does use 4 CHARS to separate multiple terms.
We don't have any control over that - though I think it would be good if Logos could look at it and change to using THEN.
In the meantime, I think the only option is to enter the search terms manually.
Thanks. It sure would be nice if 4 CHARS wasn't the default. It's really nice to be able to search this way without having to type a bunch of text. I use this function all the time to find identical phrases in other parts of the Bible. Now I'll have to change the operators each time. The quickest option may be for me to change each 4 to a 6. That might eliminate the problem I've been having.
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It sure would be nice if 4 CHARS wasn't the default
It's the default because Hebrew often combines the lemmas into single words, which would prevent THEN from finding the desired results. Unfortunately, there's not a good general solution for this.
Andrew Batishko | Logos software developer
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It's the default because Hebrew often combines the lemmas into single words, which would prevent THEN from finding the desired results. Unfortunately, there's not a good general solution for this.
That makes sense. Would 5 CHARS create a problem for Hebrew? If so, is there not a way Logos could only search for Bible text? My problem is with non-Bible text interfering with searches.
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Would 5 CHARS create a problem for Hebrew?
As Dave indicated, 5 CHARS opens the possibility of an intervening short word.
If so, is there not a way Logos could only search for Bible text?
While Bible searches only search Bible text (you can also accomplish this with search fields), the character offsets are relative to the entire resource, and are not adjusted depending on any field limitations you specify.
Andrew Batishko | Logos software developer
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