Removing titles from the Logos platform
Some of you have noticed recently an influx of titles on the Logos platform that aren’t related to Bible study. One of our company priorities is bringing you new books faster so Logos can be your one-stop shop for ebooks of all kinds. We’ve gotten feedback in the past that users want to consolidate all their ebooks in Logos, but we have a ways to go before we can serve users in this way.
However, as many of you have noted, a difficulty in broadening the content available on logos.com is that we rely on publishers to provide relevant, helpful content that doesn’t violate our standards of containing erotic/graphic language or inciting violence. (You can read our entire distribution philosophy here.) Many Bible-focused, respected publishers add books to the Logos platform using an automated feed. Some of these publishers have imprints that publish books which sometimes violate our standards—and these imprints also send books to the Logos platform using the automated feed. We’ve always used BISAC codes to filter out as many of these books as we can and we take down individual titles as we find them.
However, we’re currently working to tighten these controls so the Logos platform is always a safe place for going deeper in the Bible. A few things that means going forward:
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We have turned off the automatic feed for publishers and publishing imprints with multiple titles that violate our distribution philosophy. This means that titles from these publishers will be reviewed to ensure nothing erotic/graphic or violent makes it to our website.
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Our team will review titles flagged by users like you within one business day. If a title violates our standards against erotic, graphic, or violent language, we will remove it ASAP. You can send questionable titles to titlereview@logos.com to be reviewed by someone at Logos.
We apologize for the few resources that have bypassed our filtering system in the past. Thank you to those who have brought them to our attention so we could immediately remove them, and thank you for continuing to trust Logos to help you go deeper in your study of Scripture.
VP, Content Products
Logos
Comments
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We have turned off the automatic feed for publishers and publishing imprints with multiple titles that violate our distribution philosophy. This means that titles from these publishers will be reviewed to ensure nothing erotic/graphic or violent makes it to our website.
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Our team will review titles flagged by users like you within one business day. If a title violates our standards against erotic, graphic, or violent language, we will remove it ASAP. You can send questionable titles to titlereview@logos.com to be reviewed by someone at Logos.
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You can send questionable titles to titlereview@logos.com to be reviewed by someone at Logos.
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First, we are actively removing inappropriate titles from our platform. We are treating this issue as a major priority, and our team is being thorough to review titles manually and electronically. Thank you to everyone who has sent products to titlereview@logos.com. We’ve responded to each email within one business day, and we’ll continue to respond to every title sent our way.
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Second, we know our existing workflow failed at keeping illicit titles off the Logos platform, so we’re rebuilding our process to better vet and filter content.
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Third, we have removed and will continue removing illicit titles from the Print Library Catalog. This was a disconnect in our systems that required coordinated effort with our developers, and we will soon be able to remove titles from the Print Library at the same time we remove them from the platform. We’ve made significant progress here.
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We have turned off the automatic feed for publishers and publishing imprints with multiple titles that violate our distribution philosophy. This means that titles from these publishers will be reviewed to ensure nothing erotic/graphic or violent makes it to our website.
Some of you have noticed recently an influx of titles on the Logos platform that aren’t related to Bible study. One of our company priorities is bringing you new books faster so Logos can be your one-stop shop for ebooks of all kinds. We’ve gotten feedback in the past that users want to consolidate all their ebooks in Logos, but we have a ways to go before we can serve users in this way.
However, as many of you have noted, a difficulty in broadening the content available on logos.com is that we rely on publishers to provide relevant, helpful content that doesn’t violate our standards of containing erotic/graphic language or inciting violence. (You can read our entire distribution philosophy here.) Many Bible-focused, respected publishers add books to the Logos platform using an automated feed. Some of these publishers have imprints that publish books which sometimes violate our standards—and these imprints also send books to the Logos platform using the automated feed. We’ve always used BISAC codes to filter out as many of these books as we can and we take down individual titles as we find them.
However, we’re currently working to tighten these controls so the Logos platform is always a safe place for going deeper in the Bible. A few things that means going forward:
We apologize for the few resources that have bypassed our filtering system in the past. Thank you to those who have brought them to our attention so we could immediately remove them, and thank you for continuing to trust Logos to help you go deeper in your study of Scripture.
Sounds very positive. I'm one of those who loves to have all my Christian books in one place, although I'm less worried by having "secular" ebooks in Logos. In addition to your comments, it would be great if publishers didn't apparently overlook Logos when it comes to ebook sales of resources in the Faithlife ebooks store. If you follow the Faithlife ebooks forum, you'll see many overlooked sales.
Thank you for taking these steps. One thing I look to Logos for is a curated catalogue of works that can advance my study of God's word. For me, personally, Logos would be less useful and appealing to me if it turned into another Amazon.
I agree with this statement by EastTN.
I for one have no desire to read one of my cookbooks (for example) within the Logos platform, when this is easily done on other platforms. I prefer when Logos does what I believe it does better than any other platform — help me in my study of God's word. While we all may desire for these resources in Logos to grow faster and be made cheaper, I am willing to wait and spend more money (if need be) for the quality within Logos that I have come to expect throughout the years.
Above all these things, walk in love, which is the bond of perfection. - Colossians 3:14
Thank you for taking these steps. One thing I look to Logos for is a curated catalogue of works that can advance my study of God's word. For me, personally, Logos would be less useful and appealing to me if it turned into another Amazon.
I agree with this statement by EastTN.
I for one have no desire to read one of my cookbooks (for example) within the Logos platform ...
First, cookbooks (example) are much better in an cooking app.
But what exactly is the issue here (not questioning violence, erotica/graphic).
- If you don't buy cookbooks they won't be in your library. No 'Jane's Hunky Cowboy' either. Seems to me, the issue is Logos.com (specifically) including a lot of junk (cookbooks, novels, etc). There's no easy way to have user-managed filters (the carot menu is a pain). Shopping is currently painful, and I avoid it.
- If you DO buy cookbooks, novels etc, it's a pain managing them, relative to religious use. Everytime a search, you have to do this or that. Versus separate libraries. If you have kids, you can't give them their area for ease of use ... all one big pot.
My guess (no offense) is marketing-wise, FL needs the purchases, no matter. Why else, mindlessly dump in books?
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
But what exactly is the issue here (not questioning violence, erotica/graphic).
It's a discussion we've had several times on the forums, and it's likely that people will continue to disagree. I personally find a great deal of value in specialty retailers who maintain a curated stock of high-quality items related to a particular interest of mine. That's what I personally look for from Logos. If Logos doesn't actively curate their catalog, then they're just another Amazon with better software. I personally don't have any interest in that.
"Cleis Press is the largest independent sexuality publishing company in the United States. With a focus on LGBTQ, BDSM, romance, and erotic writing for all ..." If this sounds like a "respected publisher" that "adds books to the Logos platform using an automated feed," then I would be interested in knowing how they got the feed in the first place. I would also like to know why, as of a few minutes ago, their disgusting trash is still on the platform. I'm still waiting to be told why previous complaints about this situation were not addressed.
I am willing to be charitable, but before I start handing out compliments, I'm going to need some answers, and I would like them to be honest answers.
I would also like to know why, as of a few minutes ago, their disgusting trash is still on the platform.
I assume you've read a representative sampling of their publications before making this statement. Except for their erotic volumes, many of their volumes are current research on various topics of importance to a pastor for counseling and for political issues.
Cleis Press is an American independent publisher of books in the areas of sexuality, erotica, feminism, gay and lesbian studies, gender studies, fiction, and human rights. The press was founded in 1980 in Minneapolis, Minnesota. It later moved to San Francisco and was based out of Berkeley until its purchase by Start Media in 2014. It was founded by Frédérique Delacoste, Felice Newman and Mary Winfrey Trautmann who collectively financed wrote and published the press's first book Fight Back: Feminist Resistance to Male Violence in 1981. In 1987, they published Sex Work: Writings by Women in the Sex Industry by Delacoste with Priscilla Alexander.. . . In 2000, Cleis Press founded Midnight Editions, a human rights imprint that aims to present fiction, nonfiction, and photojournalism from regions where repression and censorship are endangering creative expression. Midnight Editions published The Little School: Tales of Disappearance and Survival in Argentina, a 1986 memoir by former political prisoner and Amnesty International board member Alicia Partnoy, as well as The Diary of a Political Idiot: Normal Life in Belgrade by Jasmina Tešanović.
. . . The press has been the recipient of many awards, including several Lambda Literary Awards in 2010.
I, for one, will be far more cautious in recommending Logos if they block the serious discussion and documentation of sexual issues - my congregation has genders and lives in a world that has genders. The erotica published by this publisher is inappropriate on Logos based on the policy statment.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Hi M.J. Yes I did take the time read a sampling of various offerings from an assortment of of the thousands of erotic/pornographic books that were the catalyst for this event. I did not read any from Cleis, as the titles were disgusting enough. I was unaware that they published some of the titles you mentioned, and I am grateful for your correction. In any event, the point of all of this is that offerings such as "Hard Rhythm," Wild Licks," and "Crimson Craft:Sexual Magic for the Solo Witch," and so many others, would seem to be inappropriate for the platform, and fortunately Logos appears to agree. I am thankful for their decision to remove material that is contrary to their stated policies and offensive (again, the erotic/pornographic tomes) to most (and hopefully all) professing Christians. In no way to I desire to interfere with anyone's philosophies of ministry outreach or child rearing. Sincere thanks for sharing the Cleis information, and for listening.
fortunately Logos appears to agree. I am thankful for their decision to remove material that is contrary to their stated policies and offensive (again, the erotic/pornographic tomes)
I fully support the removal of erotica and violence from Logos and do appreciate those who brought it to the attention of Logos. My concern, ever since the first Dracula incident, is with the removal of items that are offensive to a few but also useful to a few.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Gosh, I better act quickly to get such titles as "A Witches' Bible: The Complete Witches' Handbook", which gives detailed instructions for witchcraft such as setting up rooms for rituals.
I don't know anyone in our church who would even consider buying such occultic material.
Logos, please speed up the process and get rid of rubbish like this!
- Our church doesn't like it: Yep
I would argue that "Please don't offer books that promote the occult" has more in common with "Please don't offer books that glorify violence" than "Please don't offer books that our church doesn't like." Occult titles may not bother you personally, but it's not unreasonable to suggest that they're "off-brand" for a retailer catering to a Christian market.
First, cookbooks (example) are much better in an cooking app.
Excuse me; you guys are sounding like Christians with a very shallow cultural presence. I have a number of cookbooks, art projects, traditional practices and prayers that are tied into the Christian calendar. Surely, you've heard of hot-cross buns or King's cakes. For those whose ministry including catechism/faith formation for family, these books totally belong in Logos/Verbum.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
"We apologize for the few resources that have bypassed our filtering system in the past."
1. Unfortunately, from what I've read, the offending resources can hardly be classified as "few," at least in number if not percentage.
2. Your "policy" regarding content is meaningless unless it is effective.
3. Your (LOGOS) failure to respond to a subscriber's concern regarding this matter for close to one month has caused this matter to snowball into something that has resulted in a very visible stain on the reputation of Logos/Faithlife.
4. Trust has to earned, and this matter has damaged the trust. You need to do much better before that trust can be returned.
5. Thank you for finally responding in a positive way to this. I would still expect an effort to examine why this was not discovered sooner, and why Logos did not respond in a more timely way when this matter was first reported.
IBID
I just added a tag "hide:author bigoted" to 42 books by an author currently in the news for a very offensive statement. That is more titles than I have seen in 20+ years of sexual/violence materials in Logos.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
I’m glad something is being done. I had voiced my concerns last month and now It’s on the Protista website, X, and YouTube. Not a good look but I have faith that the Gospel truth prevail. Because I have been with logos since logos 2.
The Protestia article was very damaging, where complaints was disregarded. I asked myself what I should do hereafter. I am not fully sure yet.
I had never heard of Protestia before so I checked it out. To me, part #2 was a damaging article because I was able to click on a link and see that Logos has refused to stop selling some of these books. It might still be a work in progress for them but with their previous record on this subject, I doubt it.
I know that I am probably in the minority, but I changed my spending habits at Logos several months ago when I first became aware of this. These articles just reaffirm to me that I made the right decision.
Wellll..... If I was running the Logos Company .... we all know it would be perfect in every way.... right? LOL LOL LOL....
I fully realize that statement is wrong... just because I'm human and not perfect. Knowing this causes me to consider to give a little leniency to others and understand they will also make mistakes. If those mistakes become the trend of what they do, that's one thing. But if they try to and do correct their mistakes, welll.... that's another thing.
I see Logos making mistakes, no doubt, mainly because Logos is run by a group of humans, and if those humans are like me... welll... they make mistakes.
But... I am thankful that Logos is actually trying to correct their mistakes. That's why I gave them a big "ATTA BOY"! And .... I would hope we all would encourage them in keeping on doing this.
That's my opinion, and mine alone! [8-|]
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
Since we continue to get questions, we’d like to provide a quick update.
We are thankful to the customers who brought this issue to our attention. It revealed oversights in our filtering system we are now able to fix.
Our team is actively in the midst of a large-scale cleanup, and while many of these items were immediately removed from the public view, as noted, they were still searchable through our print library feature and website. We are tightening the system to prevent these situations moving forward.
Due to the scope and size of our catalog, it may take some time to address every instance, but we are actively auditing our resources and doing our best to clean this up ASAP. If you see anything that needs immediate attention, please report it to titlereview@logos.com.
Thank you for your patience and charity in this matter. We know many of you trust Logos to be a safe space, and we are working hard and quickly to keep it that way.
VP, Content Products
Logos
We want to thank the user who initially flagged this for us. We missed replying to his request for follow up and wish we hadn't. When we were contacted we took quick action to remove the titles we were alerted to. We desire to provide all of our users with high quality care and view this as an important learning moment for us.
Kristen Tetteh
Director of Customer Experience
Logos
I received the above response via email from customer service a day or so back that some titles were "inadvertently" added to your catalog because you were trying to expand your offerings and didn't have enough controls in place to vet what publishers were automatically uploading. I'm thankful you are working to clean that up.
Who made the decision that Cleis Press is a publisher with whom you want to partner?
Well, most churches I know have members with ministries for or members affected by or a community affected by sex workers, people denied their human rights, unjustified wars, ... the idea that because some of their books are erotica which is inappropriate for Logos justified depriving other users of the resources they need for the ministry for those who have been trafficked, sexual abused, denied basic human rights implies an insular church I want nothing to do. I take the Christian responsibility to be God's hands on earth very seriously. I do, however, strongly support your right to not purchase such works.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
A simple search for "Lover", "Harlequin", "witch", "magic", "Cannabis" etc... shows MANY objectionable titles remain. "Harlequin" returns dozens of titles. Such content is not "resources" and there are not so "few" that you need people to report them.
A week has gone by since I mentioned that a simple search for various words such as "Harlequin" shows you still have many titles that are not resources and I believe have no business being on the Logos platform.
There are still dozens upon dozens of such titles easily found. For a small sample, see the pictures I've included in this post.
So I have a question that I want a direct and simple yes or no answer to.
Will harlequin romance titles be remaining on the Logos platform as acceptable?
I've seen a lot of comments in the forum but no answers from Logos directly beyond the form letter boilerplate I received when I contacted customer service about wanting to expand their offering and not having vetted things properly. Why are these books still available and when will this be dealt with? What's preventing you from scrubbing these titles and putting in place a system that makes sure they don't get loaded again in future?
Why are these books still available and when will this be dealt with? What's preventing you from scrubbing these titles and putting in place a system that makes sure they don't get loaded again in future?
Hopefully, people like myself who believe they can screen titles themself more appropriately than strangers (or those known only through the forums). And those, who like myself, believe titles must be available/visible to learn/teach how to screen them.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Will harlequin romance titles be remaining on the Logos platform as acceptable?I've never read a Harlequin romance although I almost did when a friend mentioned one that included riding a train through Lhasa. But do Harlequin novels violate Logos policy?
If a title violates our standards against erotic, graphic, or violent language, we will remove it ASAP. You can send questionable titles to titlereview@logos.com to be reviewed by someone at Logos.
I suspect they fail on all three criteria for exclusion.
So I have a question that I want a direct and simple yes or no answer to.
The forums are primarily peer-to-peer advice. While Logos employees interact frequently through the forums, it is not an effective way to ask questions only Logos can answer.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
MJ, I don't mean this disrespectfully, but your opinion is irrelevant to my concerns.
I want a direct answer from Logos, because at this point, I'm recommending people go with other programs and I myself will be making a change as soon as funds allow. I will not be purchasing any other titles from Logos. And I'd ask them for a refund, but it's a little past their 30 days return policy.
Bottom line, Harlequin "romance" serves absolutely no purpose in Logos, and they seem to be playing the "if we ignore them, they'll go away game."
A week has gone by since I mentioned that a simple search for various words such as "Harlequin" shows you still have many titles that are not resources and I believe have no business being on the Logos platform.
There are still dozens upon dozens of such titles easily found. For a small sample, see the pictures I've included in this post.
So I have a question that I want a direct and simple yes or no answer to.
Will harlequin romance titles be remaining on the Logos platform as acceptable?
Have you emailed Logos directly? Matt Bennett said in his original post in this thread that:
"You can send questionable titles to titlereview@logos.com to be reviewed by someone at Logos."
Perhaps that would be more effective, and more appropriate, than posting pictures of erotic titles in the forums showing not just Logos staff but all forum users exactly how to find them. If you have already emailed them then my apologies. But maybe posting the pictures in here isn't the best way to handle this.
I have never once accidentally come across a single erotic title (I've been a user since 2015). I would not have known any of these titles were in the store or seen the cover art if you had not posted them here. Please be mindful of other users as you are reporting titles, preferably using the email above. And maybe stop actively searching for porn/erotica in the store. Logos has already said that they don't intend to carry porn and erotica and titles that promote violence, and that they are working to refine their filters to address this issue. They said that in this very thread. Just report the titles to the email and don't tell the rest of us about them.
This issue is being sensationalized in a way that is counterproductive because you're actually helping promote erotica. I know that's not your intent but that could be the effect for some for whom this may be a stumbling block. Please just report the titles to the email without telling the rest of us exactly how to find them or displaying the cover art. I say that lovingly, not trying to be mean.
Yes, I've emailed them. So have many others about the same problem titles. I first saw harlequin romance titles years ago, and just assumed it was a fluke. Now that others have noticed even more problems, it's obvious Logos has a much bigger problem than they seem willing to admit. Others have emailed over the past month, and yet many of the same titles remain. So obviously, sending the emails are not working."You can send questionable titles to titlereview@logos.com to be reviewed by someone at Logos."
Perhaps that would be more effective, and more appropriate, than posting pictures of erotic titles in the forums showing not just Logos staff but all forum users exactly how to find them. If you have already emailed them then my apologies. But maybe posting the pictures in here isn't the best way to handle this.
I have never once accidentally come across a single erotic title (I've been a user since 2015). I would not have known any of these titles were in the store or seen the cover art if you had not posted them here. Please be mindful of other users as you are reporting titles, preferably using the email above. And maybe stop actively searching for porn/erotica in the store. Logos has already said that they don't intend to carry porn and erotica and titles that promote violence, and that they are working to refine their filters to address this issue. They said that in this very thread. Just report the titles to the email and don't tell the rest of us about them.
The problem is that the powers that be seem to be ignoring the whole mess, other than their original "we're working on it" in the original post of this thread. The only reason I "actively search" for such material at this point is to confirm to myself that Logos isn't listening. I posted here about it, because they're not listening to other avenues.
If it were one or two titles, well okay. But it is THOUSANDS of titles that are EASILY found. So how many employees do they actually have working on removing them? One employee working 40 hours a week for the past month should have put a serious dent in it. But it really looks like very few have been removed.
Yeah, but that won't appear on the Forums, so that if Portnoy's Complaint falls off the turnip truck onto a product page, no one can jump into a thread and declare: "... this material is vital for understanding the odd proclivities of 60s-era sex fiends."
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
However, we’re currently working to tighten these controls so the Logos platform is always a safe place for going deeper in the Bible.
The process has been been automated and they are working on improving it. However, mistakes are bound to be made and some titles will accidentally slip through. When that happens, users have the option to report this to Logos.
I would also suspect that Logos will be able to learn from these mistakes and fine tune their selection process.
However, we’re currently working to tighten these controls so the Logos platform is always a safe place for going deeper in the Bible.The process has been been automated and they are working on improving it. However, mistakes are bound to be made and some titles will accidentally slip through. When that happens, users have the option to report this to Logos.
I would also suspect that Logos will be able to learn from these mistakes and fine tune their selection process.
Exactly.
The process has been been automated and they are working on improving it. However, mistakes are bound to be made and some titles will accidentally slip through. When that happens, users have the option to report this to Logos.
I would also suspect that Logos will be able to learn from these mistakes and fine tune their selection process.
Ronald, that is a good summary. Let's show them some grace as they work to improve things.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
Again, why are we being asked to do their jobs for them?
You don't have to if you don't want to. They're just telling how to handle it if you do find a title objectionable enough to want it removed.
You don't have to spend your time searching the store for titles to report or posting repeatedly in the forums. You certainly don't have to spend time capturing and posting screenshots of cover art.
Again, why are we being asked to do their jobs for them?
You don't have to if you don't want to. They're just telling how to handle it if you do find a title objectionable enough to want it removed.
You don't have to spend your time searching the store for titles to report or posting repeatedly in the forums. You certainly don't have to spend time capturing and posting screenshots of cover art.
Thanks, Kiyah.
Have joy in the Lord!
I agree it's kind of silly that we're being asked to report titles to them. Perhaps they truely don't (or didn't) understand how big of a mess they had on their hands. I took the one category of Harlequin romances as a suggestion for them to take care of. My initial search of the Logos library showed 1,148 titles/matches for the search term "Harlequin". Most of them were clearly not useful in anyway whatsoever for "research" that a Christian would/should be doing. Last night, I finally recieved a reply to my email in which I suggested they search for "Harlequin". This morning, a search for "Harlequin" returns 16 matches. Several are of the "Christian romance" category, and some are non fiction.Again, why are we being asked to do their jobs for them?
In the email, it was explained:
[quote]
I appreciate how this is a poor reflection on what we are aiming to do here at Logos and want to reiterate that we are taking the matter seriously. I have gone through and pulled these resources from the platform. So, to answer your questions directly, the answer to both is no. These resources were never intended to be put on the platform as they are not acceptable and no, they will not be remaining on the site.
I will state it is a very manual process to reverse these and while I’ve aimed to get them all there may be some that are missed. I will keep searching for anything with the same search term and keep addressing until they are all removed.
I'm grateful that things titles like this are not accpetable and will not be left on the platform.
I think their response has been slow - perhaps because they did not realize the massive numbers of offensive titles that had been uploaded by the previously ungated automated process. However, I appreciate that perhaps they're starting to understand the mess on their hands. And that it it requires manually removeing each title (one at a time?)
I can't help but think that these are not merely oversights by the publishers and imprints, but rather the actions of a nefarious person(s) wanting to sow chaos for a Christian company that did not have their digital doorway sufficiently secured.
In the email, it was explained:
[quote]I appreciate how this is a poor reflection on what we are aiming to do here at Logos and want to reiterate that we are taking the matter seriously. I have gone through and pulled these resources from the platform. So, to answer your questions directly, the answer to both is no. These resources were never intended to be put on the platform as they are not acceptable and no, they will not be remaining on the site.
I will state it is a very manual process to reverse these and while I’ve aimed to get them all there may be some that are missed. I will keep searching for anything with the same search term and keep addressing until they are all removed.
I'm grateful that things titles like this are not accpetable and will not be left on the platform.
Perhaps now that you've gotten [another] direct response in addition to the three responses from Logos employees on this thread that they don't find these titles acceptable and that they are working to address the issue, perhaps both you and others will, as many of us on this thread have suggested, extend them some grace as they seek to address the issue, and refrain from throwing a fit in the forums whenever you find an objectionable title. Can you take their word that they take the matter seriously, can you stop assuming negative intent or apathy on their part? Can you take their word that it's a manual process to remove titles and some may slip through or get missed? Can you give them the benefit of the doubt that you would want to be given?
I agree it's kind of silly that we're being asked to report titles to them.
Consider it similar to the "Report Typo" feature in Logos, or the ability to report Bugs in the forums. No, it is not my job to identify bugs or spot typos, and I certainly don't want to spend significant amounts of time doing that. But doing so does help them make the software better, and I don't report bugs or typos when I don't feel like it or don't have the time to do so, because it's not my job. They're not requiring me to report those things, but they have given an avenue to do so if I so desire. If you see a title you don't think should be on the platform according to their stated policy (hopefully not just according to your own personal preferences) report it if you want to, don't report it if you don't want to. Nobody's forcing you.
Portnoy's Complaint
I definitely want a clean Logos experience. Some books will be obvious by their title: SB gone.
Some will slip thru. I have no idea of 'Portnoy's' ' content. I remember it being in bookstores decades ago, + know who the author is by having seen its cover those many years past, but that's it.
I believe we will have to report some volumes to Logos.
On behalf of the Logos team, I apologize for allowing illicit titles on our platform and for the time it is taking for us to get everything down. We want logos.com (and our apps) to be a safe place to study Scripture, and we’re committed to removing titles that don’t meet our standards, as outlined in our Distribution Philosophy.
Today I want to update you on a few things:
As a side note, we’ve updated the FAQs in our Distribution Philosophy to answer how publisher content gets to our platform.
Again, thank you for your patience as we work to get this right. We don’t take for granted your trust in us, and we hope to regain your trust as we improve our processes in order to bring you a broad selection of relevant, high quality content. We’ll continue to share updates in the forum thread here.
VP, Content Products
Logos
On behalf of the Logos team
Thank you, Matt, and the Logos team for cleaning this situation up.
Yes, thanks Matt. I've read this and now the statement on the Logos website. I'm glad you're working this diligently and appreciate your efforts.
Can you please explain why Cleis Press was one of the publishers Logos chose to partner with? They are described as:
"...an American independent publisher of books in the areas of sexuality, erotica, feminism, gay and lesbian studies, gender studies, fiction, and human rights."
This is not a general publisher with some problematic titles but a publisher dedicated to erotica and LGBTQ titles.
This is not a general publisher with some problematic titles but a publisher dedicated to erotica and LGBTQ titles.
LGBTQ titles are clearly of interest to Christians as it is a highly contested religious issue. I have known both liberal and conservative pastors who have gone to great lengths to educate themselves on the issues.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
This is not a general publisher with some problematic titles but a publisher dedicated to erotica and LGBTQ titles.LGBTQ titles are clearly of interest to Christians as it is a highly contested religious issue. I have known both liberal and conservative pastors who have gone to great lengths to educate themselves on the issues.
Agreed. Non-erotica LGBTQ titles are relevant to me and other Christians, even those who don't take an affirming position. I do not believe Logos should remove a title simply on the basis that it has LGBTQ-related subject matter. Erotica, straight or LGBTQ, should be removed, but simply having an LGBTQ label should not be sufficient grounds to have a title removed.
I hope Matt considers this feedback going forward as he endeavors to bring broad and relevant content and does not succumb to pressure from a loud few who think God ordained them to control what everyone else can buy from Logos. Whether we're affirming or non-affirming we may want to engage the issue from an informed/educated stance, and I would like all of us to have the freedom to chose to do so, and to do it with Logos. Logos makes studying these issues so much more powerful and efficient and I don't want to always have to go to a different, less feature-rich reader.
As promised in my post on March 20, here’s an update on our progress in removing inappropriate titles from the Logos platform.
We have checked, tested, and verified our filters as well as our manual processes are working properly from now on to prevent illicit titles from being added to our platform. We have also completed automated and manual reviews of questionable content that’s currently available on the platform, removing all the inappropriate books we’ve found. From here on, we are confident that our processes will correctly identify and remove content that doesn’t adhere to our Distribution Philosophy.
Thank you for your patience as we have worked to fix our content filtering and review processes. While we can’t guarantee another illicit title won’t end up on the Logos platform, we feel certain it will be rare. Our team remains committed to regularly checking our filters and to reviewing and responding to each email that comes through titlereview@logos.com. Please keep sending us anything you come across.
We don’t take for granted your trust in us, and we hope to regain your trust as we improve our processes in order to bring you a broad selection of relevant, high quality content.
VP, Content Products
Logos
Last update was mid April and it is currently May 12th, 2024. I haven't seen any other news on updates for the removal of the pornographic, or graphic material.
What publishers or distributors have now been removed from Faithlife/Logos because of this; and what proper measures is Faithlife/Logos done and continually doing to prevent this from happening again without having to depend upon those of us whom you provide this Christians Bible Application to.?
I do appreciate all of your help that Faithlife/Logos have done for my studies with the Bible. I'm praying for the highest level of Christ like integrity.
Lev 11:44; Lev 19:2; Lev 20:7; 1 Peter 1:16 because it is written, “YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY.”
I trust the LORD. Man, as well as in myself, I have less than trust in. And that is where accountability comes in.
Last update was mid April and it is currently May 12th, 2024. I haven't seen any other news on updates for the removal of the pornographic, or graphic material.
What publishers or distributors have now been removed from Faithlife/Logos because of this; and what proper measures is Faithlife/Logos done and continually doing to prevent this from happening again without having to depend upon those of us whom you provide this Christians Bible Application to.?
I do appreciate all of your help that Faithlife/Logos have done for my studies with the Bible. I'm praying for the highest level of Christ like integrity.
Lev 11:44; Lev 19:2; Lev 20:7; 1 Peter 1:16 because it is written, “YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY.”
I trust the LORD. Man, as well as in myself, I have less than trust in. And that is where accountability comes in.
I think the update from mid April says it all, so I'm not we should expect a further update.
Here's your update: They're back to selling pornographic books https://protestia.com/2024/05/11/logos/
@Matt Bennett, would you please address what Protestia released on 5/11/2024? Thanks!
Are you able to give a comment and give further clarity?
Protestia, I don't think the forums are an appropriate place for a "reporter" to try to get information. Please go through the regular company channels not the peer-to-peer help channel.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We're actively removing the items that violate our distribution policy and looking into how we can continue improving our publishing process.
Thank you! In my view, the automated process of adding books should only apply to publishers that have earned a really solid reputation. There is too much junk out there to assume that filters will catch all books that violate your distribution policy. Even if it catches 99%, 1 out of 100 is too much for the Logos marketplace.
We are both sorry and frustrated that additional illicit content has gotten through our filters. We’re taking this seriously, and our team is working on getting it right. Further, we’re investing in strengthening our filters so the Logos platform is always a safe place for going deeper in the Bible.
Our previous efforts to tighten our filters are still working as intended, but we’ve found additional ways that content has been sneaking through, and we are closing those gaps.
You can see a longer summary of the issue and the action we’re taking on our newsroom, but here’s a briefer description of the issue:
As we’ve mentioned before, we use BISAC categories provided by publishers to automatically weed out books that fall into categories that don’t adhere to our distribution philosophy. However, some of the inappropriate titles we removed today are coded to seemingly innocuous BISAC categories like biography, health and fitness, and performing arts.
While adjusting our BISAC category exclusions has helped, it has proven to be insufficient. We’re now working on adding a regular manual review to our process. We’re also developing a new content vetting tool to scan titles and descriptions of all ebook titles before they go live and send any titles flagged to our team for manual review.
Thank you for your patience and support. We will continue working to improve our content filtering process, and we’ll post updates here and in the newsroom.
VP, Content Products
Logos
While adjusting our BISAC category exclusions has helped, it has proven to be insufficient. We’re now working on adding a regular manual review to our process. We’re also developing a new content vetting tool to scan titles and descriptions of all ebook titles before they go live and send any titles flagged to our team for manual review.
This sounds fantastic. Thank you for listening, understanding, and responding seriously to this concern. While in my view these steps should have long been in place, I strongly adhere to the philosophy of "better late than never." So, thanks again! [:D]
As we’ve mentioned before, we use BISAC categories provided by publishers to automatically weed out books that fall into categories that don’t adhere to our distribution philosophy. However, some of the inappropriate titles we removed today are coded to seemingly innocuous BISAC categories like biography, health and fitness, and performing arts.
While adjusting our BISAC category exclusions has helped, it has proven to be insufficient. We’re now working on adding a regular manual review to our process. We’re also developing a new content vetting tool to scan titles and descriptions of all ebook titles before they go live and send any titles flagged to our team for manual review.
Thanks for elaborating on your filter process; I always assumed it worked like the vetting tool you are now developing, leaving me confounded why such titles were still getting through. Like Aaron, I think this tool should have been in place long before, but reactive is certainly better than indifferent.
(There's some irony here; books almost nobody wants are consistently sneaking in, while books many of us want are going away ... 😞)
Any way to get the titles of some of these erotic/graphic or violent titles?
Thank you for reiterating/clarifying the criteria for excluding titles from the automatic feed. They are quite reasonable. But please, don't cave in to pressure that sometimes builds over the wording of a title for a book with content quite appropriate for Logos.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."