Official: You Can Now Get Early Access to the Next Version of Logos
Comments
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I just subscribed. I figured with the $15/month I'm currently paying for Connect Essentials (which renews tomorrow), I may as well just do the Galaxie Journal Subscription with the New Logos subscription. I will be cancelling Essentials now. I'm praying that I don't regret the decision as I've grown to love being able to choose from the Mobile Ed courses and the Mobile Ed subscription is a bit out of my price range.
If you're looking to get a pulse on what may benefit users with use cases similar to mine (laymen Bible Nerd) I could offer a few suggestions as to what people may be looking for. It's worth noting that I'm subscription averse. I have cancelled just about every subscription I've found myself in over the past year so the fact that I've remained on Essentials for so long speaks to how much I believe Logos is and what I believe it will keep becoming. My suggestions are as follows:
1) The 2% cash back was the main reason I subscribed to Essentials. This year I got a $30 coupon code, and I spent $180 on my subscription, but I still feel like I got a good value for my subscription.
2) Mobile Ed courses. I don't do a lot of courses, so the 2 per year have been great for me. If the courses were cheaper, I would probably buy them more often, but until the kids are off to college, or I hit the lotto, I just don't have the funds to purchase the courses I'd like to take.
3) Faithlife Ebooks Classics: honestly, I have exhausted the higher value ones at this point, but I still have a lot of fun on the first of each month choosing a few classics to download alongside the free books of the month Logos already offers
4) Feature set: since I already subscribed to Essentials, I didn't have the need to spend the extra $60 dynamic pricing on the full feature set this last go around. In the future, if the features I need the most don't end up in the new subscription model, and my other favorite perks don't show up, then I'll probably opt to purchase the features instead.
5)Lexham discount: I haven't taken advantage of this as much as I have wanted to, but the option to have the Lexham discount has been a huge determining factor in my subscription.
I would love to see many of these things remain in the new subscription model. If these few things remain in the new subscription model I'll happily remain subscribed for years to come.0 -
It's possible that some of you might be offered a trial and others not because the marketing folks are running some tests right now.
What shouldn't happen is that the /early-access page says one thing, and then the billing page says something else, as Frank was experiencing. We fixed a bug that we thought would help with this earlier today, but we'll look again.
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assign a value to each user’s library and features they currently have then give them that much in credit for subscriptions so that they get to burn through all their credits before having to pay anything for subscription. That way u don’t have to offer discounts just a one time credit for what people own.
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assign a value to each user’s library and features they currently have then give them that much in credit for subscriptions so that they get to burn through all their credits before having to pay anything for subscription. That way u don’t have to offer discounts just a one time credit for what people own.
This is a good idea if Logos wants to force all people to go to the subscription route. Logos knows how much people have paid for Features over the course of time. So this is easy to do for them.
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God
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I subscribed yesterday as well and it charged me outright. And I totally missed that 30-days free message if it was there yesterday.
My credit card was charged. I did not see a 30 day trial opportunity
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Just to throw in my 2 cents worth. I am one of those who prefer ownership, rather than subscription. I too have been with Logos from the early days (Libronix and CD Word). I will not be doing a subscription.
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We’re still thinking through what that means for purchasable feature sets, and we’d value your feedback on whether the option to purchase would be important to you, knowing that you’d miss out on all the AI and cloud-backed features along with regular updates.
Mark, thank you for this post and what is happening at Faithlife and with Logos Bible Software. I do have subscriptions for different software and I know that is where the industry is heading. I might try the Logos Pro subscription to test out the AI features you described. I know that the books and everything that I have gotten since I first purchased Logos back almost 19 years ago stays with me. I am wondering what features would leave my program if I was to subscribe to the Logos Pro and then cancel the subscription. I know that everything for the Full Feature Set for Logos 10 would remain, but would anything else from the Logos Pro remain or would it all be removed? I am just wondering what Full Feature items (upcoming) might come over that will be permanent with my account and license and what ones (other than the AI) would be removed? If all the Full Feature items from the "Logos 11" or whatever it will be called in October disappear with a subscription, then I personally would still like to get a base package with the limited full features (non-AI), to make sure I can retain them if/when I cancel a pro subscription.
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Why don't you guys just offer free 3 month trial for everyone if testing the waters is your purpose?
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To be honest, and Logos may hate me for this, but I am perfectly content if you all would just please spend the extra little money to allow the last engine to run perpetually, and please do not make your mobile app subscription based. Logos already does so much, I really do not see how people can even imagine to complain or think of new features? But, everybody was begging for AI without thinking of the cost to maintain that model, and as such, now Logos has to switch to subscription. t may just be me, but I would be content if Logos never adds another Feature. I use it now for mostly purchasing books and study, and to read books on the tablet.
I think one thing you should do, is offer an engine, like say your last v10, call it Logos X (I think there has already been one,) and a purchasable feature set that stops at what 10 offers. Allow these to be the last Engine, and last Full-Feature purchase available, but keep them updated so they can always be downloaded in the future for those who are content to consider it "Logos Complete."
I say this, because honestly guys and gals; Logos 10 Full-Feature is already so powerful, even without the AI stuff, that a majority of people still have not learned to use all its functions properly; and that same amount probably only know a fraction of what it can do. Let this last version be your perpetual "Stand Alone." Always offer the engine, always offer the last full-feature to be able to be purchased, and always make it able to run on the major OS's new releases in the future. People will still purchase that as much, if not more than the subscription model; as long as there is no temptation to downplay its functions to persuade to subscription.
AI is cool, but it isnt ground breaking. Logos has been over-kill for quite sometime, but in a cool way. And frankly, many people do not trust AI for their theological research anyway. Again, it seems pertinent to not try and force your customer base into a subscription model, but give them the choice; but make it known that while Logos10 (or whatever it may become to be known as) can still be purchased, and owned, and updated to work on current OS's; that it will forever remain in the state it is in. But please understand that there are many, many people who would be perfectly content with that Engine, and those Features, with the ability to purchase books like we always have. There should be no reason, since the former already exists, that it and the subscription cannot both be options.
I think most people just want the security of knowing there will be an option to download it, and have it on the computer, and run on future OS's without having another subscription to attend to. Even if you never add another feature to it again. Even 500 years from now, if the Lord tarries, I couldnt see Logos 10 not being more than useful for a Pastor or Scholar, or Layperson to study the Word. At the same time, I know there are those that keep pressing yall for more, more, more. Let them pay for the subscriptions.
Just all in all find that nuanced balance of promoting both the Desktop, and Subscription Model. Its a Win/Win.0 -
I am excited about the possibilities that these changes could bring. As someone who owns a very large library and has invested a large amount of money into this software and its features, I understand the concerns that many have (I share them as well). Logos is doing the right thing in taking things slowly, casting a vision and gaining feedback. I hope that things are throughly thought thru prior to the full launch and that the best decisions are arrived at which both serve us, the loyal customers, and allows Logos to innovate and flourish into the future.
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Several years ago when Faithlife presented Logos Now they were targeting base package owners. So we have already bought and paid for base package and full feature set and still subscribed to Logos Now. It should be no different here. We should still be able to purchase a base package and full feature set and subscribe to Logos Pro if we want the new features now.
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Thanks for the beta experience. It was very helpful, and I could use the summarization feature to go through a lot of material for a research paper very efficiently.
Having permanent access to the features is definitely interesting to me. However, I'm unlikely to subscribe permanently under the current model (or a similar one.)
First, I don't need to write research papers all the time. Probably two more to go, and if I subscribe to Logos Pro for a month for each of them, and then cancel again, that's gonna be sufficient.
If I put the money for, let's say, two years of Logos Pro into some base package(s), I'd receive a lot of bang for the buck, and could, for example, considerably expand on church fathers (4 or 5 denominational silver libraries.) In order to find passages of interest in the church fathers, I can still use Copilot for free, and then jump back into Logos, and continue research in there.
If AI access was available for a one-time fee, I'd certainly be more interested, but I can clearly see that that'd be a bad business decision for you.
So how to get someone like me (who is by default sceptical about anything with monthly fees) to subscribe...? Microsoft managed to do it, but they drew me in kicking and screaming, as they left me no choice (dropped support for old versions, new versions only allowed on one computer for one user.) And I'm still cringing at the thought of the annual cost of Office 365 Pro Plus... So don't do it like Microsoft.
How about including a 2 year subscription in base packages Gold and above? That would force faithful customers into a subscription, but without taking anything away from them. If they upgrade every two years, they'd retain access. If they don't want to upgrade, they can choose between switching to Logos Pro, or losing access to the AI features. On the other hand, it would remove pressure from you to develop heaps of new features every two years, since a good amount of the price for a new Logos package would flow into AI features (server capacity and ongoing development) rather than adding plenty of new features for permanent and offline use.
Now this model would require excellent communication and marketing!!!
Also keep in mind that things are gonna change rapidly, and such model is unlikely to be sustainable long term. In less than 10 years, cost of server capacity for running AI services is negligible. In less than 20 years, client computers are gonna be powerful enough to run their own offline AI enigine. In fact, high end clients can run engines like stable diffusion already.
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I finally was able to get the page to load to see what I'd get with Logos Pro.
I'm still not convinced.
Right now, the only two features I'd potentially use would be Smart Search and Summaries. I don't think I'd use them enough to justify $9.99/month for them since I don't heavily use AI anyway.
The Sermon Assistant features I wouldn't use.
I looked over the 430+ book list.
I own over 95% of the books. The rest I'd probably never use.
Even the overall book list I'm not super-impressed with. Logos Libraries are a better value.
So far still not a fan of this at all.
No offense Nathan, but how do you intend to implement AI with the other software company you work for? There are ongoing costs that need to be addressed that really only work with a subscription. Don't get me wrong, you have every right to post as a Logos customer, but on the other software forums you are discussing AI implementation including natural language searching and summarization. If that software company is serious about implementing AI I would think they would have worked out the economics of it and without a subscription, as I understand the cost model, it doesn't work.
No one has to subscribe and nothing is set in stone about some of the conclusions you are arriving at regarding future development of Logos. I get that subscriptions are not for everyone, and hope Logos accommodates those customers, but AI at this time will require a subscription or prepayment due to ongoing costs.
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Now this model would require excellent communication and marketing!!!
Jan, you're making people nervous. And FL is a bit too reluctant to talk about September. Smiling.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Even the overall book list I'm not super-impressed with. Logos Libraries are a better value.
So far still not a fan of this at all.
Thank you, Nathan. I have most of Full Features and don't want the rest. So, I won't be testing the app for possible use. Instead, thinking best immediate strategy.
Reading the other comments as well, I'm thinking to button up my Logos before September. I've been watching my Logos purchasing, and I'm now buying mostly Amazon (Logos has thousands, but dated pretty much; ditto Accordance).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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To be honest, and Logos may hate me for this, but I am perfectly content if you all would just please spend the extra little money to allow the last engine to run perpetually, and please do not make your mobile app subscription based. Logos already does so much, I really do not see how people can even imagine to complain or think of new features? But, everybody was begging for AI without thinking of the cost to maintain that model, and as such, now Logos has to switch to subscription. t may just be me, but I would be content if Logos never adds another Feature. I use it now for mostly purchasing books and study, and to read books on the tablet.
I think one thing you should do, is offer an engine, like say your last v10, call it Logos X (I think there has already been one,) and a purchasable feature set that stops at what 10 offers. Allow these to be the last Engine, and last Full-Feature purchase available, but keep them updated so they can always be downloaded in the future for those who are content to consider it "Logos Complete."
I say this, because honestly guys and gals; Logos 10 Full-Feature is already so powerful, even without the AI stuff, that a majority of people still have not learned to use all its functions properly; and that same amount probably only know a fraction of what it can do. Let this last version be your perpetual "Stand Alone." Always offer the engine, always offer the last full-feature to be able to be purchased, and always make it able to run on the major OS's new releases in the future. People will still purchase that as much, if not more than the subscription model; as long as there is no temptation to downplay its functions to persuade to subscription.
AI is cool, but it isnt ground breaking. Logos has been over-kill for quite sometime, but in a cool way. And frankly, many people do not trust AI for their theological research anyway. Again, it seems pertinent to not try and force your customer base into a subscription model, but give them the choice; but make it known that while Logos10 (or whatever it may become to be known as) can still be purchased, and owned, and updated to work on current OS's; that it will forever remain in the state it is in. But please understand that there are many, many people who would be perfectly content with that Engine, and those Features, with the ability to purchase books like we always have. There should be no reason, since the former already exists, that it and the subscription cannot both be options.
I think most people just want the security of knowing there will be an option to download it, and have it on the computer, and run on future OS's without having another subscription to attend to. Even if you never add another feature to it again. Even 500 years from now, if the Lord tarries, I couldnt see Logos 10 not being more than useful for a Pastor or Scholar, or Layperson to study the Word. At the same time, I know there are those that keep pressing yall for more, more, more. Let them pay for the subscriptions.
Just all in all find that nuanced balance of promoting both the Desktop, and Subscription Model. Its a Win/Win.Very wise words, Dave. I buy books + study them, highlighting the essence. I write a few notes, newly using Look Up sometimes.
I do this 7 days a week for multiple hours a day, since L3.
I am as serious as those that use a higher percentage of the app. So, L10 forever would be great. Monthly fees give me no features I need.
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So I'm on Faithlife Connect, grandfathered in at the old $99/yr before the switch to Faithlife Connect. I get all the features. Clearly I can't try this because I'd lose features. But then I also lose out on early pricing even though ive been a customer for over 10yrs. Am I correct?
Next, you haven't released all the tiers and their pricing yet. Ok fine. But I'm betting my yearly price is going up to maintain my current feature set.
I get the subscription model. I use Lightroom and the quarterly updates and photoshop are worth the price I pay. So I get it.But man I keep saying this, search and retrieval is and has been your focus. Fantastic. But you gotta focus on retention too. You're making us able to instantly retrieve data without helping us to KNOW that data and its related connections. I wish you all would develop better and tactile note-taking and highlighting systems so that our minds retain data instead of just merely retrieving data. We're gonna know less and less Scripture in our own minds because Logos will just do the work for us. We need retrieval and more tools to "soak" it up the Bible and theology into our souls.
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I'm trying to think of a solution that will
1. bring loads of profits to Logos
2. allow ALL customers to take advantage of AI without making a fixed $ commitment (which so many customers are opposed to)
The starting point is this...Someone said that EVERY AI query is going to cost Logos $. (This thread is too long for me to go over and give credit to the person who mentioned this.) In accounting jargon, this suggests that AI search is a variable cost. So why can't Logos pass this variable cost on to the customer?
Here is a potential solution...No need for subscription, No need for fixed $ amount to be paid by any Logos customers. Customers will be billed $X every time they run some AI feature. Logos can fix $X taking into account the following:
X = Cost paid by Logos to outside vendor to run AI search + Cost to Logos of providing this service by building AI tools + Profits to Logos
Logos can let customers know what $X is upfront.
The more the customer uses, the more they will be billed. Since there is no subscription amount to be paid each month, ALL people will want to dabble in AI. The ones who use it a little bit will only bear a low cost. People who want to extract the maximum with AI will do so too, and they bear a correspondingly higher cost.
For Logos to maximize profits, all it has to do is focus on building great AI tools so ALL people will use it extensively. The more extensively the AI tool is used, the more profits for Logos.
Human nature is to want benefits but not bear the costs. The above model ensures that the customers who reap the benefits of AI features will also bear the costs, while ensuring Logos earns boat loads of profit.
Those who are triggered by the phrase "financial economist" can go ahead and take a crack at the solution offered by this financial economist!
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God
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I finally was able to get the page to load to see what I'd get with Logos Pro.
I'm still not convinced.
Right now, the only two features I'd potentially use would be Smart Search and Summaries. I don't think I'd use them enough to justify $9.99/month for them since I don't heavily use AI anyway.
The Sermon Assistant features I wouldn't use.
I looked over the 430+ book list.
I own over 95% of the books. The rest I'd probably never use.
Even the overall book list I'm not super-impressed with. Logos Libraries are a better value.
So far still not a fan of this at all.
No offense Nathan, but how do you intend to implement AI with the other software company you work for? There are ongoing costs that need to be addressed that really only work with a subscription. Don't get me wrong, you have every right to post as a Logos customer, but on the other software forums you are discussing AI implementation including natural language searching and summarization. If that software company is serious about implementing AI I would think they would have worked out the economics of it and without a subscription, as I understand the cost model, it doesn't work.
No one has to subscribe and nothing is set in stone about some of the conclusions you are arriving at regarding future development of Logos. I get that subscriptions are not for everyone, and hope Logos accommodates those customers, but AI at this time will require a subscription or prepayment due to ongoing costs.
I like Nate, but he just became a different person once he started working for Accordance; and unfortunately, has rubbed people off the wrong way with all the cancel culture he implemented in his Accordance forums. Hopefully Accordance survives, but at this point, Logos is doing way better than them. I’ll probably try the subscription to see what it adds once everything is more defined and settled.
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So in short all that has been spent to this point has been wasted. Our books were never really ours. Now you change your platform and we all know that the day will come the without an ongoing subscription things will simply not work or be accessible. You have pulled the mother of all bait and switches in the name of improvements. This sure looks like a full on deception!
Tell me what I have wrong here?
You were developing and about to launch this at the same time I had sales people calling to get me to spend a lot of money to “upgrade” knowing that the features would likely disappear or be useless?
Unless you all can produce some kind of ironclad guarantee regarding existing books/features and sustained support for existing platform non subscribers you have lost me as a customer, you will lose my church as a Faithlife Connect user, at least 5 other users in my church and I will be happy to warn everyone I know of your actions.
I welcome your reply0 -
Here is a potential solution...No need for subscription, No need for fixed $ amount to be paid by any Logos customers. Customers will be billed $X every time they run some AI feature. Logos can fix $X taking into account the following:
X = Cost paid by Logos to outside vendor to run AI search + Cost to Logos of providing this service by building AI tools + Profits to Logos
Logos can let customers know what $X is upfront.
Simple and perfect. No socialism, no unfairness. Everyone pays exactly for what they get.
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So in short all that has been spent to this point has been wasted. Our books were never really ours. Now you change your platform and we all know that the day will come the without an ongoing subscription things will simply not work or be accessible. You have pulled the mother of all bait and switches in the name of improvements. This sure looks like a full on deception! Tell me what I have wrong here? You were developing and about to launch this at the same time I had sales people calling to get me to spend a lot of money to “upgrade” knowing that the features would likely disappear or be useless? Unless you all can produce some kind of ironclad guarantee regarding existing books/features and sustained support for existing platform non subscribers you have lost me as a customer, you will lose my church as a Faithlife Connect user, at least 5 other users in my church and I will be happy to warn everyone I know of your actions. I welcome your reply
By all means judge us by what we've done, and even judge us for what we say we will do. But please don't judge us for what you only imagine we will do, especially when we've gone out of our way to say that we will not do it.
Subscriptions aren’t required to maintain access to your existing content. They’re for those who want access to new and improved features. With Logos, your content investment is always safe, and you’ll always be able to access it for free. The subscription benefits listed above for features don’t apply to books in the same way, so we don’t foresee a time when we’ll stop selling perpetual licenses to books.
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So I'm on Faithlife Connect, grandfathered in at the old $99/yr before the switch to Faithlife Connect. I get all the features. Clearly I can't try this because I'd lose features. But then I also lose out on early pricing even though ive been a customer for over 10yrs. Am I correct?
No, that's not correct. Although we're suggesting Connect subscribers wait, we won't ask you to wait so long that you'll end up with a worse deal than those who joined early.
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So, basically, more money for logos, less value for users.
I want to own what I pay for. No way will I subscribe so you can beta the feature through me and fund the upgrades via a subscription.
No thanks.
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So I'm on Faithlife Connect, grandfathered in at the old $99/yr before the switch to Faithlife Connect. I get all the features. Clearly I can't try this because I'd lose features. But then I also lose out on early pricing even though ive been a customer for over 10yrs. Am I correct?
No, that's not correct. Although we're suggesting Connect subscribers wait, we won't ask you to wait so long that you'll end up with a worse deal than those who joined early.
Appreciate the clarification
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I have had a chance to play with the AI features over the past couple of weeks, and they are impressive. I look forward to using them more. I particularly found beneficial the smart search that showed me books I did not own, but now do because they contained information I needed.
Mark, is there a way to unlock those features (or a subset of them) for Faithlife Connect users as a final hurrah to Logos Now/Connect? That way the 'missing out' whilst we wait does not feel so bad?
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Upgrades have always been a paid feature?
NO SIR! That changed when Logos changed their business model. As you are doing yet again.
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Apparently, many don't understand the concept of 'planned obsolescence.'
No one will be forced to subscribe to Logos to retain access to their existing content. You will always be able to access all the books you’ve purchased without further payment.
That's not possible, Mark, and you know it. Once the OS changes so that the old software won't run, a subscription will be necessary to get Logos working again. The company has no plans (and said so, implicitly- 'bug fixes come with the subscription') to offer the necessary upgrades to the old engine to keep it running on new OS without a subscription. Existing content will be limited to the period of time that Windows or iOS doesn't relegate L10 to the dustbin. That's not an oversight, it is planned obsolescence. Just say so, and drop the implicit 'never' claims.
I fought like hail against the LN subscription as I knew where it would lead. Well, here we are.
The subscription model won't be a problem for the younger generation...that's what they know. It's us older folks (we used to be called 'loyal customers' in another era) that will have a problem with this, especially as we end up on fixed incomes. Near the end of the movie '1917,' after Schofield (Mackay) delivers the critical message to Col Mackenzie (Cumberbatch), Mackenzie dismisses the Lance Corporal rudely (in a way so rude I can't quote it here). It feels like Logos is dismissing us Boomers the same way with this scheme.
I don't have a lot of regrets in my life. There's a few things I'd like to do over, but not too many. Unless something changes this business model for the better, buying into Logos bible software may end up being one of the biggest regrets I have. (First-world problem, I know.)
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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What happens if we have L10 Full Feature, subscribe to Logos Pro, then decide to cancel our subscription. Do we revert back to L10 Full Feature? What is Logos' commitment to supporting L10 going forward?
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Apparently, many don't understand the concept of 'planned obsolescence.'
No one will be forced to subscribe to Logos to retain access to their existing content. You will always be able to access all the books you’ve purchased without further payment.
That's not possible, Mark, and you know it. Once the OS changes so that the old software won't run, a subscription will be necessary to get Logos working again. The company has no plans (and said so, implicitly- 'bug fixes come with the subscription') to offer the necessary upgrades to the old engine to keep it running on new OS without a subscription. Existing content will be limited to the period of time that Windows or iOS doesn't relegate L10 to the dustbin. That's not an oversight, it is planned obsolescence. Just say so, and drop the implicit 'never' claims.
I'd ask you to trust us based on our 32-year track record. We make the majority of our money selling digital books, and it would be foolish for us to put that at risk. Ensuring that you (a) can access your existing content library and (b) feel confident to continue to build it on our platform (and encourage others to do the same!) is absolutely essential to our continued success as a business. We are fully committed to ensuring that that never changes. Logos desktop, web, and mobile will be continually updated with bug fixes and maintenance support to ensure they work on the latest operating systems and browsers, and you won't need a subscription to continue to access your content libraries or existing licenses.
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