Official: You Can Now Get Early Access to the Next Version of Logos

Why can't Logos just add the AI stuffs into the current Logos Connect? Logos Connect hasn't recieved anything good in these few years. I'm sure people would be happier with the news and more people would recieve more for their money.

$9.99 for AI is just wayy too high. $2.99-4.99 would make more sense. It's just a single feature. It wont make our sermon and it wont do our homework. $10/mo just waay too expensive for what it offers.

For $10/mo .. I expect Mobile Ed videos to be included or something. But for a single AI feature... It's a hard no for a lot of people.

Mike,

If I am understanding correctly, you are maintaining the latest features for $10 a month. AI is simply the latest feature added. 

Instead of paying $240 to upgrade to 11, 12, 13, every two years, you are getting the latest version for $10 a month (with quarterly updates). I agree that AI on its own, with the current iteration, is not worth the monthly expense. However, to always be on the latest version and get the updates as they are released will improve the experience.

I'm not a huge fan of subscriptions, but evidently not going the subscription route is unsustainable (for any software company). Inconsistent revenue, too much sharing, pirating, etc. I generally keep my software updated and find subscriptions don't usually increase my cost. Ironically, it reduces the likelihood that I am subsidizing the cheaters.

So, in effect, we will be charged $10 per month to beta test new features for Logos?

Ok, Here’s a question from the subscription page and its answer:

I own L10 Full Feature set, but this answer seems to suggest that you’re only 100% committed to ensuring we can always access all of our books, but nothing is said of the features.  At least, it’s not clearly stated when it should be because we’ve paid big bucks to own those features.  How is that going to work out for future releases?

DAL

Like I said before somewhere.... I think it works this way. I own L10. It is mine forever. I do not on L11.  But I now have Logos Pro with the new features.  No matter what, I can always stop Logos Pro and I will still have L10 to fall back on. That seems simple to me. 

And... I am thinking (careful here)... that if L11 comes out... the cost of updating will be more than Logos Pro. Let's say Logos updates every year... and the updates do cost more than Logos Pro... then I (thinking again...) will be ahead with Logos Pro just because of the costs to update...

Will there come a time when I don't need Logos? Probably.... but during the time I need it (or want it) if I do the "rental" then my cost of Logos will be cheaper with Logos Pro because (in my thinking... careful again)... cost of updating is more. 

And remember.... I never claimed to be the smartest kid on the block.... [8-|]

It's taken me a while to get through this thread, but hopefully I won't overly duplicate what's already been said.

First off, I want to thank Mark and Phil for all the time they have already spent trying to answer the many queries. And for their patience!

Secondly, you asked for feedback about whether there should still be some sort of option to purchase a base package/feature set, and my answer would definitely be 'Yes'. Even as a business model I would think this would be beneficial to Logos. As has been made clear from this thread, there will be some who won't join the subscription model but may still be tempted to occasionally purchase a feature set.

My final comments are related to Logos Now/Faithlife Connect (FLC) users. I have been one from the beginning and still am, so I am concerned about this. (I'll preface my next lines by saying that I love Logos, have over 20,000 books, and appreciate all that is done by the staff at Logos to make this a great program. I'm just really concerned about this aspect.)

Personally, I feel like the manner in which Logos has treated its FLC users lacks integrity. I don't question the the intentions of Logos - I myself have had good intentions at times but later realised that my behaviour hasn't been up to scratch.

As a Logos Now subscriber, I was promised the following would be guaranteed:

• Early access to new features
• An additional 5% discount on all base packages
• Access to FL TV
• An additional 25% discount each month available on Lexham products
• 3 free FL Classic Ebooks each month
• 2% back annually on all my purchases

Logos then decided that it wouldn't (couldn't?) be continuing the early access to new features and moved us Logos Now users to FLC. In FLC, however, we were at least still promised that we would have access to all features of each new release when it came out. And when LN users expressed concern about the arrangement being changed again or dropped in the future, I distinctly remember Logos promising that this would not be the case!

And yet the following announcement indicates that FLC is being absorbed into Logos Pro (LP) at a significant loss of benefits but at greater cost to FLC users:

Where does this leave subscriptions like Faithlife Connect and Preaching Suite?

The subscription that will launch later in the year will replace Faithlife Connect and Preaching Suite. The tier we're launching today, Logos Pro, includes exclusive new features, but there are a few tools and datasets in Connect and Preaching Suite that aren’t in Logos Pro but will be in another tier of the subscription. Most of the books in Logos Pro are different from those included in the existing subscriptions. 

If you subscribe to those products, we’ll contact you later in the year to explain how you can painlessly switch to the new subscription. Until then, we recommend keeping your existing subscription to ensure you don’t lose any perks, features, or books. In the meantime, you could add Logos Pro to your existing subscription if you’re eligible.

So, based on what I have read so far of what FLC users can expect, here is my current understanding (with additional comment):

• Access to all full package features (No longer)
• New features will be released when available, but in LP (even though we will be paying more) we won't even have all of the features we currently have access to - unless we agree to pay even more for a higher subscription tier in the autumn!!
• An additional 5% discount on all base packages (No longer)
• This actually got stopped before now (don't know when), but, again, another example of Logos reneging on its promises to FLC users.
• Access to FL TV (No longer)
• An additional 25% discount available on Lexham products (No longer)
• I don't use this every month, but I do use it sometimes and would certainly miss it.
• 3 free FL Classic Ebooks each month (No longer)
• My library is so big now that I already have most of the FL Classics that I want. However, I still find this very useful as I purchase base packages very strategically and use the 3 free books as a way to increase my discounts on packages. So I would definitely miss this.
• 2% back annually on all my purchases (No longer)
• This last benefit is a really big one.

To summarise (from what I understand so far), as a FLC user the bottom line is that I am going to be forced to pay more per year to keep some of the features I already have access to, and at the same time lose all the other benefits I had in FLC!! (I.e., LP: $9.99 per month = $119.88 per year, vs FLC: $99.99 per year.)

Now, Mark or Phil, am I misunderstanding what this is going to look like? I certainly hope I have gotten this wrong. Otherwise, I am very disappointed. I understand that subscription is probably inevitable to maintain services, but I just want previous contracts to be treated fairly.

I'll add my thoughts because not enough people have spoken up and this thread isn't long enough yet. [:P] I'm in two minds - as others have also confessed to, I've got subscription fatigue. A logos subscription feels like another hole in an already leaky bucket. Yet at the same time I get it from a business perspective, it means more cash on hand for ongoing development and maintenance costs, plus paying for the AI.

I'll sign up, already have in fact. I want Logos to succeed in providing quality tools to Christians so that they can read and handle God's word well, and teach it to others. If this is the way you think you can do that best, I'll back you. Couple thoughts though.

1. I'm not an old timer whose been here since genesis - my primary concern is not protecting a library I've built up over 20 years but on-boarding new people (especially theological students/new ministers) to bible software. I like that the subscription model means lower upfront costs for new users, that's great. However, I think a subscription model is still less attractive to people whose primary reason for using bible software is to access a Greek NT, maybe one or two grammars, and BDAG. Seriously - this is what the dozens of theological students and new ministers I know who use bible software have it for. Given the option between paying a one time fee to Accordance for the software and books, or an ongoing subscription fee plus books with Logos, almost all will pick the first.

2. And I think the main reason they will choose to do that is not primarily because of cost, but because of simplicity. It's just plain simpler to pay once and be done. I suspect this is Logo's biggest problem. I go on the website and I'm confronted with a multitude of packages and libraries, I open my software to hundreds of resources I don't know or trust, and dozens of tools I don't know what to do with. This subscription adds complexity, both real and perceived. It adds even more tools, more resources that feel like/are bloatware, and the ongoing payment makes me 'feel' incomplete. Whatever Logos ends up doing I can't stress enough that you need to aim for simplicity.

3. I'm keen to see what the resources in the different tiers look like, but at the moment I don't think the current books available with Logos Pro are strong enough incentives for a student/new pastor. I'm on board with the idea - you need to provide a large library so that the tools function. Agreed. But if the library doesn't match current ministry/academic standards, then the output from the tools is going to be unappealing and or perceived as not worth it.

4. I think the idea of a perpetual fallback license mentioned earlier in the thread has merit that is worth exploring. https://sales.jetbrains.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207240845-What-is-a-perpetual-fallback-license Sure, keep the AI tools as part of the subscription only, but having a core application that sees ongoing development which people can fall back on should they end their subscription (say after 12 months?) is important. People need the assurance that the resources the purchase will still be usable, and I think the perpetual fallback license does this.

5. It's been mentioned already but I want to add my support - offline access and functionality needs to be maintained. I and others I know legitimately spend time outside mobile reception, I need Logos to keep working in that context. Same goes for everyone using the tools in developing nations etc.

6. Instant Light and Dark mode only via subscription? Really?? That feature is seen by people to be a simple quality of life option, putting it behind a subscription paywall makes Logos come across as...not great. Please just roll it out as part of the next update for everyone to enjoy from the base/free level and up. [:)]

You asked for feedback (thankyou for the opportunity) so here's mine:

I have spent a lot of hard-earned money on Logos (agonising many times over possible purchases, and over what would give me the best value for the savings I was looking at handing over to Logos). I have actually been actively saving up for an anticipated new release late this year.

However, I don't expect to sign up for a subscription service; if a subscription is the only option, I'll just keep the money in my pocket and use Logos (features and resources) as I've currently paid for it. I would also be much less likely to invest any further in resources.

I REALLY don't like subscription services, and pay for as few as I possibly can (because they all add up!), and if I HAVE have them, then I would MUCH rather they be yearly (that's kind of like a yearly 'new version' purchase decision for me; except I don't get to keep the features if I ever can't afford to keep subscribing 🙁).

I much, MUCH rather 'own' the software I use, and am happy to save up the big bucks to purchase it up front. Please let me continue to 'buy' major program releases (or app releases, in my case; I am a heavy Logos Mobile user).

Also, AI features simply don't interest me much -- certainly not for the cost. Maybe make those a seperate subscription feature?

I am much more interested in seeing mobile features fill out to better parity with the desktop software. Mobile is where many people these days (such as myself), and many future users, will primarily spend their serious Bible study time.

I wonder who the third party is. Google? If so, then no thanks. I block third party cookies.

I hope this question doesn't seem too far off-topic, but this announcement has affected my thinking on what tools in Logos I use, and how my question gets answered will eventually affect my response to this subscription.

I've been a part of LN/FC since the beginning just so I wouldn't have to worry about needing features. However, it's been so long that I honestly have no idea what plain vanilla Logos would be like. Probably 95% of what I do is simply read stuff, and another 4% is right-clicking original language words I don't know. Is there an easy way to experience plain vanilla Logos while enjoying all the books that I own?

Good morning everyone.  I am a 25+ year Logos user.  I have been buying the upgrade the day it comes out since Logos 4.  I have a large collection of books and use the program between 20 and 30 hours a week for Bible Study and Sermon prep.  I love the program.  Every preacher that comes through our church I tend to "evangelize" and make sure they know the way of Logos    But this news if filling me with sadness and dread.  One of the things I have been doing is buying lots of resources when I can so that I have the best library possible to pass on to my grandkids.  If I am understanding this new model, all the legacy aspects of Logos goes away because it is now going to turn from being owned to a subscription that vanishes the minute you quit paying.  I do get that you keep your books... but with no functioning software to run your library, what good are the books?

I want to echo the sentiment that I want an option to buy resources, but I am open to a subscription for some of the latest bells and whistles in software features.  I want some clarity as to the ACTUAL plan soon.  Right now I feel like I should stop buying resources until I see what is really going to happen with the required $ just to keep my investment working.

Reading over the massive thread, it seems like there is a lot of pushback against a subscription only system.  Can we get an official walk back of this impending subscription doom in light of all the negative response?  Again, I do not mind a subscription option... but a complete subscription takeover fills me with dread and sadness.

If it were to close today I still have my L10 software functional and not tethered to a business. I have all of my resources on my computer and backed up to transfer to another if my computer were to fail and no Faithlife server to retrieve my Logos.

Just for clarity, your backup is only relative to current operating systems. That's why Mark specifically mentioned update support for future system changes, no matter. Which is a good thing.

I can understand that this is difficult. But I have spent a lot of money on resources and feature sets and am a longterm Logos Now Subscriber. I noticed a few times that the more I invest, the lower the benefit of the subscription. For instance, I have already all of the 3 free monthly eBooks (in English) that I get with my Logos Now subscription. And with Logos Pro, I only get 5 additional books. Please try to consider previous Logos investments.

You hit the crux of the problem (mixed metaphor):

- Per Phil, the earlier subscription strategies haven't met expected targets (customers less than enthused, etc)

- FL really does need a consistent revenue stream, especially for its new owners

- But the more a Logosian spends once, the less value the future subscription is to the company

- So. Lots of un-promised reassurances.

Technology evolves. Business evolves. Don't be like Blockbuster. Adapt or die.

I am fine with a subscription model if helps make Logos sustainable.  For me personally, the FC has been of great value.  I have access to the latest features for a lower price than I can purchase a full feature upgrade.  This has allowed me to invest more in Logos books.  If Logos Pro is of reasonable price and provides needed features then it will work for me.  An option to purchase the features might be value to those who do not like the subscription model.  It does seem the subscription model is the direction of most software these days.  Like it or not this seems to be the future.