Comments
My position is similar to MJ's, although for different reasons.
Personally, I did not find the features very useful at all. I am pretty proficient at search and can get what I want from the regular search better than the precise search. I used the illustration tool a few times and didn't get anything that fit my style (although one prompted another idea for me). The summarize feature just isn't the way I work. I'm a very fast reader and can skim the relevant section and get a better idea for it it will be helpful for me to read than I can from an AI summary.
On the other hand, I think it will be a great resource for many people. If you have a small library, the summary feature can help identify books to buy. If the current search is mystifying to you, AI gives you a Google-like experience. If you produce discussion questions for sermons or use the kind of illustration the software is designed to produce, it will save a bunch of time.
I'll subscribe when they figure out what they are doing with Connect subscribers, for the sake of my seminary students and helping on the forums. I don't see much reason for paying two subscriptions while I figure out if I will need to buy a full feature set.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
If you have a small library, the summary feature can help identify books to buy.I believe you are saying the summary feature would identify a lacuna I could fill with purchases. Maybe I don't have this right.
So, I buy a book, go thru it with Summary + decide within 30 days to keep or not.
Yes. The all search has already let you search books you don't own but it is hard to get much from the snippet. Summarizing the section is a much better way to see if I will benefit from the book.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
If you have a small library, the summary feature can help identify books to buy.I believe you are saying the summary feature would identify a lacuna I could fill with purchases. Maybe I don't have this right.
So, I buy a book, go thru it with Summary + decide within 30 days to keep or not.
Yes. The all search has already let you search books you don't own but it is hard to get much from the snippet. Summarizing the section is a much better way to see if I will benefit from the book.
And thank you, Justin.
Summarizing the section is a much better way to see if I will benefit from the book.
based upon my personal preference of sermon preparation and delivery, this is the ONLY thing about PRO that intrigues me. [I don't own full-feature set, but, like Justin, have full access through a current Connect Essentials (no resources) subscription.]
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
Exactly. I spent endless hours and money on MPseminars to learn how to use parameters within logos searching tool, and now they come out with this garbage that don't even search half as good as I can as a human.My position is similar to MJ's, although for different reasons.
Personally, I did not find the features very useful at all. I am pretty proficient at search and can get what I want from the regular search better than the precise search.
As it sits now, I don't like it much. The searching sucks and cant ever pull anything I need, or own however, I am able to search books I own. As for the sermon stuff, I don't write sermons so I have no use for that at all. The fact it has a limited "credit" usage but does not tell me how many credits I have per month, and the cost of each thing I use in credits until I reach 80% sucks. Seams like it is more geared towards Pastors and not members of the church in general. If they introduce a feature that allows me to search a commentary for the information i need pertaining to a verse or set of verses instead of having to comb through endless amounts of material to find the quick answer I am looking for then I will be sold on that alone, until then, I am not a fan at all.Is it worth it ? What are your thoughts so far ?
If they introduce a feature that allows me to search a commentary for the information i need pertaining to a verse or set of verses instead of having to comb through endless amounts of material to find the quick answer I am looking
I assume you are using the WITHIN milestone syntax?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
For an example, when asking it to tell me the verse where Jesus was talking to the woman at the well, it just refers me to books I don't own and cant actually tell me where to go. 
A fuzzy search of the same thing, in "bible" does a better job then AI... Mind you I am only using this as an example... I have tried many different examples of using the AI feature to search, and I have come up with nothing great.
Hi James,
If you do a Book search rather than an all search you only get resources you own in the results.
Smart search is not currently not optimizing bibles in an all or book search, which is why it is returning books. However you can do a book search, then use the dropdown to search a bible or collection of bibles.
I have found that less wording is better. Just type "woman at the well" with the quotes in a book search and it will get you resources specific to John 4 or type woman at the well without quotes and limit the book search to a bible or collection of bibles.
For example I mean this:If they introduce a feature that allows me to search a commentary for the information i need pertaining to a verse or set of verses instead of having to comb through endless amounts of material to find the quick answer I am lookingI assume you are using the WITHIN milestone syntax?
Reading john 1:1 and it says the Word was with God.
I now want to look in a commentary about how the Word was with God.
I open the commentary and use the AI feature to tell me "Find me information on how the word was with God within this commentary"
Viola - The AI shows me exactly where to look instead of me having to read through a bunch of information to find it.
The fact it has a limited "credit" usage but does not tell me how many credits I have per month, and the cost of each thing I use in credits until I reach 80% sucks
Is this still true? Is it not possible to know how many credits are used?
Is it worth it ? What are your thoughts so far ?
I'm only interested in Smart Search, Results Summaries and Article Summaries.
Smart Search needs to get smarter, but one learns to rephrase a query when you realise it does not understand syntax e.g. when did Judaism arise is essentially equivalent to when AND did AND Judaism AND arise. Judaism and the phrase "second temple Judaism" are better understood.
The Summaries are fair to good.
Dave
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Windows 11 & Android 13
Hi Dave
e.g. when did Judaism arise is essentially equivalent to when AND did AND Judaism AND arise
I was intrigued by this comment so ran the searches (the smart search on the left)
The precise search - correctly - contains articles containing all of the words specified while the smart search seems to be more trying to "answer the question"
Am I missing something in what you are saying?
I am finding that using quotation marks on key phrases improves the search results greatly, especially as you go down the list of results. I also leave out all the verbiage that would make it a question. For example studying Rom 13 and civil disobedience, rather than asking how does the christian reconcile what Paul wrote in Romans 13 and civil disobedience, I simply type Romans 13 and "civil disobedience" getting much more accurate results especially as I go down the results list. Using precise search such as bible:rom 13 NEAR "civil disobedience" produces results less on target.
I am finding smart search valuable, but I am having to realize how to get the best results. Sometimes I just select text from the bible and run a books search getting really good results such as:
"taxes to whom taxes are owed" Being a CPA in tax season I found this one helpful!
I can post screenshots, but suspect most will run the searches themselves.
I agree. I am leaving out more and more verbiage. I have to force myself to think google search rather than ChatGPT.
e.g. when did Judaism arise is essentially equivalent to when AND did AND Judaism AND ariseI was intrigued by this comment so ran the searches (the smart search on the left)
The precise search - correctly - contains articles containing all of the words specified while the smart search seems to be more trying to "answer the question"
Sorry for the late reply, Graham.
John's comment following yours states my case more adequately than "is essentially equivalent to". Query syntax is ignored and is more likely to become part of the results.
Dave
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Windows 11 & Android 13
Overall, I found Logos Pro to be okay, but not great. While some of the new features were nice, such as the summarization tool, I preferred the old precise search over the new smart search for certain tasks. Many of the other features, like sermon illustrations and application, I wouldn't use as I prefer to use Scrivener and Google Docs instead of Logos Sermon Builder.
I appreciate the work put into Logos and love the software, having spent over $70,000 on books within the platform. However, I feel that Logos Pro didn't fundamentally improve the quality of my Logos experience. To achieve that, I would like to see better AI-powered text-to-speech voices and the use of AI to segment Greek and Hebrew audio, allowing users to listen verse by verse with interlinears or learn and read original languages using a synchronized verse/chapter approach.
In general, I prefer to do my own AI-related tasks. For example, when preaching, I take all my commentaries on a specific passage from Logos and create my own chat bot using a third-party platform, which offers a level of power and usability that I have yet to see in Logos.
With the move to a subscription model, I have less incentive to purchase book packages, as I find the deals offered outside of Logos upgrades are usually not as appealing. I typically spend $1,000-$2,000 on new base packages with each iteration of Logos, primarily due to the excellent deals on books, especially packaged works of biblical, historical, and systematic theology.
Regarding subscriptions, I tend to be fickle, frequently starting and stopping services like Netflix, Audible, and VidAngel based on my monthly usage and needs. I will likely do the same with Logos Pro, subscribing only during months when I heavily use a particular feature, then reverting to my Logos 10 setup. This is not because I dislike Logos, but because I need to be a good steward of my finances. If I'm not purchasing something I can own outright, I will only subscribe when I'm heavily using that specific product or feature.
I hope Logos will continue to offer massive book packages similar to previous base package offers, with better price points than other collections. If so, I might continue to purchase these packages.
Not try to hijack this thread. However as someone that went from Scrivener to Sermon Builder i am curious as to what is more appealing about scrivener to you? Also I would be curious as to your set up as someone who has been using notebooklm to do the very thing that you discussed hear. I have found it somewhat useful but still not quite where I would want it with its limitations. Perhaps you have a different set up or are using something different for ”chatbot”. Of course I am no longer pastoring but I find I still often rely on what I used when I did pastor and still approach my studies in the same way.
Scrivener is really powerful when you know how to use it well. It's a lifesaver when you have tons of notes and source material, like when you're working on academic writing or a big research project. What I love about it is that you can break your writing down into separate sections, and each section has its own note window right next to it. This makes it super easy to keep track of your thoughts and references for each part of your work, whether it's a sermon or a term paper.
Scrivener's note-keeping features are amazing and really user-friendly, which is why I think it's better than a lot of other writing apps out there. It's a fantastic platform for all sorts of writing projects, but it really shines when you're dealing with something complex and need to stay organized.
That being said, when it comes to the final editing phase, Scrivener might not be the way to go. Its editing tools aren't quite as robust as what you'd find in Microsoft Word, and they're not as intuitive as Google Docs. But even so, Scrivener can get you pretty far – I'd say about 80% of the way there. And when it comes to keeping everything organized, Scrivener is tough to beat.
Scrivener's note-keeping features are amazing and really user-friendly, which is why I think it's better than a lot of other writing apps out there. It's a fantastic platform for all sorts of writing projects, but it really shines when you're dealing with something complex and need to stay organized.
The note-keeping features is one of my absolute favorites in Scrivener. I love that everything is right there as I'm writing and I don't have to search all over the place or have multiple windows open. Also, I love the ability to move around and write in different sections at will. If I what I want to write for Section A is not flowing, I can easily go over to Section B, and then get back to Section A when I'm ready. I don't have to deal with the confusion of moving text around or dealing with formatting issues etc when all I want to do at the moment is write.
That being said, when it comes to the final editing phase, Scrivener might not be the way to go. Its editing tools aren't quite as robust as what you'd find in Microsoft Word, and they're not as intuitive as Google Docs.
I agree re: Scrivener's editing capabilities. The spell-check is terrible (worse than Logos's spell-check for the Notes editor), and I'm on my own when it comes to sentence structure, punctuation etc. However, I much prefer longform writing in Scrivener to MS Word; in Word, I find myself editing as I write because I'm constantly stopping to see what the blue underlining is about! In Scrivener, though, I only pause occasionally to fix misspelled words (or ignore them, as is very often the case). I can actually write in peace without the constant distraction of editing on the fly.
Scrivener is really powerful when you know how to use it well. It's a lifesaver when you have tons of notes and source material, like when you're working on academic writing or a big research project. What I love about it is that you can break your writing down into separate sections, and each section has its own note window right next to it. This makes it super easy to keep track of your thoughts and references for each part of your work, whether it's a sermon or a term paper.
Scrivener's note-keeping features are amazing and really user-friendly, which is why I think it's better than a lot of other writing apps out there. It's a fantastic platform for all sorts of writing projects, but it really shines when you're dealing with something complex and need to stay organized.
That being said, when it comes to the final editing phase, Scrivener might not be the way to go. Its editing tools aren't quite as robust as what you'd find in Microsoft Word, and they're not as intuitive as Google Docs. But even so, Scrivener can get you pretty far – I'd say about 80% of the way there. And when it comes to keeping everything organized, Scrivener is tough to beat.
Not try to hijack this thread. However as someone that went from Scrivener to Sermon Builder i am curious as to what is more appealing about scrivener to you? Also I would be curious as to your set up as someone who has been using notebooklm to do the very thing that you discussed hear. I have found it somewhat useful but still not quite where I would want it with its limitations. Perhaps you have a different set up or are using something different for ”chatbot”. Of course I am no longer pastoring but I find I still often rely on what I used when I did pastor and still approach my studies in the same way.
Not try to hijack this thread. However as someone that went from Scrivener to Sermon Builder i am curious as to what is more appealing about scrivener to you? Also I would be curious as to your set up as someone who has been using notebooklm to do the very thing that you discussed hear. I have found it somewhat useful but still not quite where I would want it with its limitations. Perhaps you have a different set up or are using something different for ”chatbot”. Of course I am no longer pastoring but I find I still often rely on what I used when I did pastor and still approach my studies in the same way.
Overall, I found Logos Pro to be okay, but not great. While some of the new features were nice, such as the summarization tool, I preferred the old precise search over the new smart search for certain tasks. Many of the other features, like sermon illustrations and application, I wouldn't use as I prefer to use Scrivener and Google Docs instead of Logos Sermon Builder.
I appreciate the work put into Logos and love the software, having spent over $70,000 on books within the platform. However, I feel that Logos Pro didn't fundamentally improve the quality of my Logos experience. To achieve that, I would like to see better AI-powered text-to-speech voices and the use of AI to segment Greek and Hebrew audio, allowing users to listen verse by verse with interlinears or learn and read original languages using a synchronized verse/chapter approach.
In general, I prefer to do my own AI-related tasks. For example, when preaching, I take all my commentaries on a specific passage from Logos and create my own chat bot using a third-party platform, which offers a level of power and usability that I have yet to see in Logos.
With the move to a subscription model, I have less incentive to purchase book packages, as I find the deals offered outside of Logos upgrades are usually not as appealing. I typically spend $1,000-$2,000 on new base packages with each iteration of Logos, primarily due to the excellent deals on books, especially packaged works of biblical, historical, and systematic theology.
Regarding subscriptions, I tend to be fickle, frequently starting and stopping services like Netflix, Audible, and VidAngel based on my monthly usage and needs. I will likely do the same with Logos Pro, subscribing only during months when I heavily use a particular feature, then reverting to my Logos 10 setup. This is not because I dislike Logos, but because I need to be a good steward of my finances. If I'm not purchasing something I can own outright, I will only subscribe when I'm heavily using that specific product or feature.
I hope Logos will continue to offer massive book packages similar to previous base package offers, with better price points than other collections. If so, I might continue to purchase these packages.
I take all my commentaries on a specific passage from Logos and create my own chat bot using a third-party platform, which offers a level of power and usability that I have yet to see in Logos.
I would be interested to hear more about this.
When it comes to creating customized chatbots using your own materials, here's what I've been doing lately. First, I gather all the commentaries I've read on a specific passage or subject, which is usually around 15-20 texts. Then, I copy and paste them into a Google Doc or Word document, which can end up being up to 200 pages long. Once that's done, I save the document as a PDF.
Next, I use a platform called Poe, which allows you to create customized chatbots using your own data set (in this case, the PDF) and a variety of LLM engines. The cool thing about Poe is that you can create multiple bots using the same data and experiment with them to see which one works best for your needs.
I recently used this approach when I was preparing to preach on Hebrews 13:7-18, and I was really impressed with the results. For example, I asked one of the bots to write a biblical theology of leadership based on that passage while keeping the entire book of Hebrews in mind. The bot came back with some excellent material that synthesized the information from the commentaries I had provided.
When it comes to creating customized chatbots using your own materials, here's what I've been doing lately. First, I gather all the commentaries I've read on a specific passage or subject, which is usually around 15-20 texts. Then, I copy and paste them into a Google Doc or Word document, which can end up being up to 200 pages long. Once that's done, I save the document as a PDF.
Next, I use a platform called Poe, which allows you to create customized chatbots using your own data set (in this case, the PDF) and a variety of LLM engines. The cool thing about Poe is that you can create multiple bots using the same data and experiment with them to see which one works best for your needs.
I recently used this approach when I was preparing to preach on Hebrews 13:7-18, and I was really impressed with the results. For example, I asked one of the bots to write a biblical theology of leadership based on that passage while keeping the entire book of Hebrews in mind. The bot came back with some excellent material that synthesized the information from the commentaries I had provided.
When it comes to creating customized chatbots using your own materials, here's what I've been doing lately. First, I gather all the commentaries I've read on a specific passage or subject, which is usually around 15-20 texts. Then, I copy and paste them into a Google Doc or Word document, which can end up being up to 200 pages long. Once that's done, I save the document as a PDF.
Next, I use a platform called Poe, which allows you to create customized chatbots using your own data set (in this case, the PDF) and a variety of LLM engines. The cool thing about Poe is that you can create multiple bots using the same data and experiment with them to see which one works best for your needs.
I recently used this approach when I was preparing to preach on Hebrews 13:7-18, and I was really impressed with the results. For example, I asked one of the bots to write a biblical theology of leadership based on that passage while keeping the entire book of Hebrews in mind. The bot came back with some excellent material that synthesized the information from the commentaries I had provided.
I just recently started using the free trial so my opinion may change over time. I'm not a pastor or teacher. I use Logos for my personal Bible study and research. With that being said, I don't find the sermon assistant features useful. I'm not a big fan of the smart search feature when using the "All" setting. I don't need to see results for all the books that aren't in my library. I don’t find the added books to be much of a plus since I have a rather large library. I do like the summarization features very much. Is it worth $9.99 a month just for the summarization feature? I’m not sure yet. Logos will probably add features in the coming months that will add value to the price. It basically comes down to the value you place on the options that you will use. The best way to find out is to subscribe and try it out. You can always cancel if you don’t find it useful.
Be a doer...James 1:22
Hi Robert - and welcome to the forums
I'm not a big fan of the smart search feature when using the "All" setting. I don't need to see results for all the books that aren't in my library.
I just wanted to check you were aware that using Smart Search in a Books Search only returns results in books you own
Graham
Yes I'm aware. Still leaning though.
Be a doer...James 1:22
It totally depends upon how you use Logos. For some people the AI assisted search is very valuable as they have trouble getting results from the standard search. For others who are used to building very precise searches, it is of little value. For some people, the summarization for results is very valuable for identifying the resources worth pursuing. For others, with small search collections that they know well, there's not so much value. The same holds for the sermon assistance and the resource summarization. Some user will use the features extensively, others will respond "meh".
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Ok but what are your thoughts personallly?
My personal opinion is exactly what I wrote. I don't find the sermon assistant features particularly useful as I have a very different view of appropriate illustrations - I would draw on traditional teaching stories from the major religions of the world; I would draw discussion questions from the scripture and occasionally liturgy rather than the sermon ... although I would pay attention to the aspects emphasized in the sermon. My study habits have only occasionally made use of summarization - mainly when I was so bored that I neither read the textbook (just the chapter summary) nor attended class. (True story ... I actually complained to the professor after the grades came out ... he eventually led me to a minor in the subject and helped me understand my primary interest as model theory in a time when the field did not exist). But I find the all search greatly improved to the point I am actually using it again ... it is back to be a useful way to scan the available materials on topics I know next to nothing about. However, the fact I'll use only a bit of it is irrelevant because in teaching users to do research in Logos, I would teach them to rely on the features I don't use myself but would use if I had 60 years less experience.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."