I wish pre-pubs "in production" could be made available as ebooks

As the post says I wish pre-pubs "in production" could be made available as ebooks. As an example I ordered a John Lennox book nearly 2 1/2 years ago when the book was published. It's been out so long now that I was able to buy today as a Kindle ebook for £0.99. I've have therefore canceled my pre-pub order and will only now buy the Logos edition if it goes on sale in the future. I'm sure there must be a way for Logos to release books in ebook format while they're developing the fully functional research editions. This way Logos would also get money upfront to fund the development.

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DMB

Definitely something is off at Bellingham High. My prepubs are down to their 'definitely want' ... I've deleted everything else. 'In development' just means another list sitting on someone's desk.

Your idea is good but I wonder if the contracts would need renegociating. More 'in development'.

Yasmin Stephen

I'm sure there must be a way for Logos to release books in ebook format while they're developing the fully functional research editions. This way Logos would also get money upfront to fund the development.

What are your suggestions for that way? Release as ebook and ask for 'Logos edition price' upfront? Or customers pay ebook price now, and pay the difference later to get upgraded to a Logos edition? Who will go for either? People are so used to getting a free copy if their ebook gets upgraded to a Logos edition (I'm assuming this is still happening), they will pull out and wave their entitlement card very forcefully if Logos tries to go the latter route. As for the former, who wants to pay, let's say, $29.99 for an ebook that is just an ebook, even with a promise it will be upgraded later? Especially when our 'later' is oftentimes very different from Logos's 'later'.

Paul Caneparo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1293039#Comment_1293039

My prepubs are down to their 'definitely want' ... I've deleted everything else. '

I've been deleting many of my pre-pubs and essentially only leaving commentaries which are yet to be published, but which are part of existing series that Logos carry.

Paul Caneparo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1293044#Comment_1293044

I'm sure there must be a way for Logos to release books in ebook format while they're developing the fully functional research editions. This way Logos would also get money upfront to fund the development.

What are your suggestions for that way? Release as ebook and ask for 'Logos edition price' upfront? Or customers pay ebook price now, and pay the difference later to get upgraded to a Logos edition? Who will go for either? People are so used to getting a free copy if their ebook gets upgraded to a Logos edition (I'm assuming this is still happening), they will pull out and wave their entitlement card very forcefully if Logos tries to go the latter route. As for the former, who wants to pay, let's say, $29.99 for an ebook that is just an ebook, even with a promise it will be upgraded later? Especially when our 'later' is oftentimes very different from Logos's 'later'.

Assuming Logos have a digital copy from the publisher, my idea would be when you order the pre-pub, you essentially pay the pre-pub Logos research edition price, but get the ebook immediately, which then gets upgraded once the research edition has been developed.

Beloved Amodeo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1293039#Comment_1293039

Your idea is good but I wonder if the contracts would need renegociating.

I agree that at face value the idea is interesting and merits consideration. I have some prepubs that are Lexham and in this case, have no impediment via contract, however many have yet to be written, so there's that.

I too have cleared my prepubs along the same lines as you and Paul, also, frustrated with the long wait. I chose not to buy LRC because there were too few books that were available rendering the discount moot.

Yasmin Stephen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1293056#Comment_1293056

Assuming Logos have a digital copy from the publisher, my idea would be when you order the pre-pub, you essentially pay the pre-pub Logos research edition price, but get the ebook immediately, which then gets upgraded once the research edition has been developed.

But how many people would go for that idea? I wouldn't. I don't doubt I'll get the Logos edition eventually, but eventually could be a very long way away. Learning vicariously (re: the LRCs, LGCs, and the other abbreviations with C at the end), I tend to stay away from paying upfront for future stuff.

Paul Caneparo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1293075#Comment_1293075

Assuming Logos have a digital copy from the publisher, my idea would be when you order the pre-pub, you essentially pay the pre-pub Logos research edition price, but get the ebook immediately, which then gets upgraded once the research edition has been developed.

But how many people would go for that idea? I wouldn't. I don't doubt I'll get the Logos edition eventually, but eventually could be a very long way away. Learning vicariously (re: the LRCs, LGCs, and the other abbreviations with C at the end), I tend to stay away from paying upfront for future stuff.

Perhaps I'm impatient, but I'd rather have access to a book as soon as possible and wait for it to eventually become a research edition. At present, while I wait I don't have access to the book. Perhaps by paying when you get a simple ebook version, it will give Logos greater ability to develop the research edition, as they have certainty of funding.

This is the book I cancelled. I noticed it was only a reader edition, which makes it frustrating that 2 1/2 years after a Kindle version was available that there's still no Logos Reader Edition - especially given it was "in production" from the day it was listed as a pre-pub. (However, I cite this purely as an example.)

https://www.logos.com/product/217433/seven-days-that-divide-the-world-the-beginning-according-to-genesis-and-science-10th-anniversary-edition

Yasmin Stephen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1293077#Comment_1293077

Perhaps I'm impatient, but I'd rather have access to a book as soon as possible and wait for it to eventually become a research edition. At present, while I wait I don't have access to the book. Perhaps by paying when you get a simple ebook version, it will give Logos greater ability to develop the research edition, as they have certainty of funding.

Very few of my book purchases are on the level of 'need to get right away' so I can afford to be patient. And I also have no qualms about buying books elsewhere if I can't get them at Logos when I want them, or if the price is right. I only remove pre-pub orders when I'm no longer interested in a book, or I find that I bought them elsewhere without remembering I had it on pre-pub. They're not in my way, anyway, so I rarely bother with them.

This is the book I cancelled. I noticed it was only a reader edition, which makes it frustrating that 2 1/2 years after a Kindle version was available that there's still no Logos Reader Edition - especially given it was "in production" from the day it was listed as a pre-pub. (However, I cite this purely as an example.)

https://www.logos.com/product/217433/seven-days-that-divide-the-world-the-beginning-according-to-genesis-and-science-10th-anniversary-edition

I agree, 2 1/2 years for a Reader edition is excessive. Thanks for sharing the title, it looks very interesting and it's $1.99 at Amazon so ... 🤐

Paul Caneparo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1293083#Comment_1293083

I agree, 2 1/2 years for a Reader edition is excessive. Thanks for sharing the title, it looks very interesting and it's $1.99 at Amazon so ... 🤐

Interestingly had Logos been able to offer me a basic ebook version early on, the publisher, author and Logos would have shared $11.99. Because the process has taken so long, the publisher, author and Amazon are now sharing only £0.99 - or $1.99 for US buyers. Logos have lost out totally, but the publisher and author have missed much larger royalties/margins.

Justin Gatlin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1293085#Comment_1293085

In the past, when I have had ebooks converted to Logos editions, there have been two versions in my library, one of each. It is my understand that was because they could not transfer notes from one to the other for some technical reason which I never knew or have forgotten. That might complicate things.

Br Damien-Joseph OSB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1293085#Comment_1293085

I agree, 2 1/2 years for a Reader edition is excessive. Thanks for sharing the title, it looks very interesting and it's $1.99 at Amazon so ... 🤐

Interestingly had Logos been able to offer me a basic ebook version early on, the publisher, author and Logos would have shared $11.99. Because the process has taken so long, the publisher, author and Amazon are now sharing only £0.99 - or $1.99 for US buyers. Logos have lost out totally, but the publisher and author have missed much larger royalties/margins.

This has been my gripe for years. Logos has no idea how many sales they've missed out on by customers (students/seminarians especially) who need a book now (i.e. for a class this semester or a paper I'm writing this week), and cannot wait for some indeterminate future. I don't buy books twice, so when I go to Amazon to buy something, I will not purchase it from Logos, even if I had requested it or voted on it. Logos could look at their sales data for "organic"/spontaneous purchases of books and compare against the amount of pre-orders made during a similar unit of time. For example, they could choose a 2.5 year period of time, and look at the organic sales of a book similar to the one you've mentioned; then look at the book you've mentioned, and compare the data side-by-side how many pre-orders have been made vs. how many individual sales have been made.

I think a tremendous amount of books (including collections!) could have been fully-funded if they were available for purchase from the get-go. We're at the point where some collections have been on pre-order (formerly community-pricing) for 10-12 years... how many sales were lost by customers who found the book on Logos and weren't willing to pre-order? (not to mention how many pre-orders are dropped/cancelled the longer the item sits unfunded, which I wager is far more than refunds of a book purchased outright)

"Pre-Pub"/"Pre-order" is an entirely artificial sales device, since in almost all cases, these are books that have been published and available by other vendors for many years... so there is nothing "Pre" about it at all. If anything, Logos is late to the game... late from a publication standpoint, and late in delivering product to customers who need texts for classes, sermons, and research right now...

Simon’s Brother

But what happens to their when Logos revised project costs, and it moves from In Production back to Gathering Interest? This has happened.

And what happens when something else goes wrong and the project gets cancelled. There are lots of reasons a book remains in production for an extended period of time outside of creating the resouce itself that would cause complications if Logos prematurely took your money and gave you a pre-pub version in the interim. The resouce might even been ready to go but because of other sensitive factors that they are not going to disclose to customers they are not able to release it now.

Releasing some as an e-pub would lead to complaints about why has the is resource been released, but not this other one.

But I get it, sometimes the wait is too long if you genuinely need the book now.

Paul Caneparo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1293113#Comment_1293113

But what happens to their when Logos revised project costs, and it moves from In Production back to Gathering Interest? This has happened.

And what happens when something else goes wrong and the project gets cancelled. There are lots of reasons a book remains in production for an extended period of time outside of creating the resouce itself that would cause complications if Logos prematurely took your money and gave you a pre-pub version in the interim. The resouce might even been ready to go but because of other sensitive factors that they are not going to disclose to customers they are not able to release it now.

Releasing some as an e-pub would lead to complaints about why has the is resource been released, but not this other one.

But I get it, sometimes the wait is too long if you genuinely need the book now.

I don't know the inner workings of Logos, so you could well be right. But to me "in production" sounds like Logos have received sufficient pre-orders to fund development or like the book I'd been waiting for, it was "in production" the day it was listed as a pre-pub. Either way it must be better for Logos to get funding from interested parties before embarking on the tagging, etc.