The plural form of elim/elohim

David Beard
David Beard Member Posts: 5
edited November 21 in English Forum

I was recently going through some of Heiser's material on Hebrews. In the podcast he made a statement that the plural form of elim/elohim occurred in the Hebrew Bible over 160 times. My question is--How do I duplicate that search? I know how to search the lemma and go to the analysis function for "result", but none of those results ~ equal 160--Is there another way?

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  • MJ. Smith
    MJ. Smith Member, MVP Posts: 53,066 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would have expected the search argument to be lemma.sesb.h:אֱלֹהִים AND morph.sesb.h:N??P?+S??P but that gives me far too many results.  So someone else will need to step in.

    Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."

  • Dave Hooton
    Dave Hooton Member, MVP Posts: 35,672 ✭✭✭

    In the podcast he made a statement that the plural form of elim/elohim occurred in the Hebrew Bible over 160 times.

    h:elim is a town 

    h:elohim  is a grammatical plural for God and occurs about 2600 times i.e.  lemma.sesb.h:אֱלֹהִים. 

    h:elo or h:el  is singular when used for God about 205 times.   i.e. lemma.sesb.h:אֵל.2

    h:eloah  is a grammatical single, mainly used for God (as opposed to god) about 48 times i.e. lemma.sesb.h:אֱלֹוהַּ

    Can you be more precise about the Hebrew word Heiser is using? e.g. where used.

    Dave
    ===

    Windows 11 & Android 13

  • DMB
    DMB Member Posts: 13,413 ✭✭✭

    Just to keep the thread interesting:

    https://www.logos.com/grow/who-are-elohim/ 

    where it's over 2,000 times ...

    "If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.

  • Christian Alexander
    Christian Alexander Member Posts: 3,008 ✭✭
    https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1294095#Comment_1294095

    Like DMB get it rolling. This is another good piece. https://drmsh.com/the-plural-elohim-of-psalm-82-gods-or-men/ 

    Michael S. Heiser, “Elohim as ‘Gods’ in the Old Testament,” Faithlife Study Bible, John D. Barry, Michael R. Grigoni, et al. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2012). 

  • David Beard
    David Beard Member Posts: 5
    https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1294088#Comment_1294088

    Naked Bible Podcast Transcript Episode 177 Hebrews 2 September 16, 2017—just past the 20:00 minute mark


    "I published an article in Tyndale Bulletin on the Dead Sea Scroll material. There are over 160 references to plural elim or elohim—many of them in Divine Council scenes in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Somebody didn't get the monotheistic memo! Somebody didn't get the memo about, "Oh, we can't use divine plurality language anymore because we're monotheists now!" Again, monotheism is a modern construct. I talk about this at great length in Unseen Realm. It's a term that doesn't mean a whole lot to what you actually see in the Hebrew Bible."--Michael Heiser excerpt


    Now that I look at it—he was talking about Dead Sea Scrolls material --not the Bible...my mistake. That's why we can't get the results to match...Many thanks for your help...and sorry I wasted everyone's time! (It was fun though—LOL!)​

  • Dave Hooton
    Dave Hooton Member, MVP Posts: 35,672 ✭✭✭
    https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1294103#Comment_1294103

    thanks for your help...and sorry I wasted everyone's time! (It was fun though—LOL!)​

    I also had fun tracking the different Strong's numbers for man/men/human for another thread!

    Dave
    ===

    Windows 11 & Android 13

  • Ralph Gibson III
    Ralph Gibson III Member Posts: 39 ✭
    https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1294223#Comment_1294223

    Thanks for the clarification!   I was running in circles trying to help answer this one.

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