I'd like to know why Logos is carrying these kinds of publications. It's disturbing to say the least.
https://protestia.com/2024/05/11/logos/
Here's what Logos said previously, together with an email address where you can report it
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/221422/1291907.aspx#1291907
(edit link - thanks N.B Mick !)
New Logos quality. Profit at any cost. With no small disappointment, I am recommending other Bible software to new users until Logos gets on top of this and other issues--if they do.
Here's what Logos said previously together with an email address where you can report it https://community.logos.com/forums/p/221422/1291907.aspx#1291907
Here's what Logos said previously together with an email address where you can report it
(I added a space after the link, thus making it active in the forum editor.)
I'd like to know why Logos is carrying these kinds of publications. It's disturbing to say the least. https://protestia.com/2024/05/11/logos/
My recent experience has been that the "offending" material has been removed. I search daily for books on sale in the Faithlife ebooks store and I'm only seeing "Christian" books, so I wonder if this is old news now and dealt with.
Any recommendations on a Bible App that is comparable to Logos?
I'm also wondering when these books were actually found. I see the article was posted yesterday (May 11) and yet I'm finding none of these books when I run a search for them today. It's the weekend, so I'm surprised Logos would've cleaned them up so quickly.
https://www.google.com/
Did you have the courtesy to verify that the article was accurate by actually looking for the books on Logos? And that the books actually violate Logos guidelines? (some appear not to). There is so much disinformation on the web that everything deserves to be checked before it is passed on. Question: Is passing on inaccurate information without attempting to verify it calumny?
I'd like to know why Logos is carrying these kinds of publications. It's disturbing to say the least. https://protestia.com/2024/05/11/logos/ My recent experience has been that the "offending" material has been removed. I search daily for books on sale in the Faithlife ebooks store and I'm only seeing "Christian" books, so I wonder if this is old news now and dealt with.
I too never see these sorts of titles unless someone points them out and I search for those keywords. I guess the publishers of this blog like to search for erotic keywords to test Logos. Nevertheless, it is true that Logos shouldn't allow such books on their site.
The particular titles in that article are all removed already, so the article might have been drafted a while ago and only published yesterday. Or maybe Logos already got on top of it and removed them after seeing the article.
But there are still other similar books. A search for "burlesque" for example (when I was looking to see if that protested book was still for sale), brought up these titles: "Bad Girls, Dirty Bodies: Sex, Performance and Safe Femininity" and "Acts of Undressing: Politics, Eroticism, and Discarded Clothing" (not going to dignify them with a link). Both with Bloomsbury Academic, which appears to be one of the offending publishers. Maybe they deserve more intense scrutiny than say Westminster John Knox Press or Baylor.
To answer MJ's objection, which I can already hear in my head, I'm sure some academics somewhere would like to buy those books to study something, and they should legitimately be available from some seller like Amazon. But Logos is not and does not need to be the "everything for everyone" book retailer. These would be so tangential to what Logos is trying to curate that the risk of losing users over the perception that Logos doesn't care about keeping its site free of smut is worse than the risk of losing a potential sale to one obscure researcher writing a book on "a biblical approach to erotic feminist theory" or whatever.
It appears to still be a manual process to remove the offending titles and an automated process to bring content in. This is like:
I'd worry about an automated process of removing stuff, though. FeedBear has automatically blocked certain words, for example, which has made it impossible for me to post recommendations of books using such words in the title or author name (a book by Craig Gay, a book called The Virgin Mary, and a book called Dancing in the Darkness: Spiritual Lessons for Thriving in Turbulent Times that had "kill" in its product description which I had included). So I'm not sure what to propose as a solution.
To answer MJ's objection, which I can already hear in my head, I'm sure some academics somewhere would like to buy those books to study something, and they should legitimately be available from some seller like Amazon.
I am comfortable with Logos' stated policy of excluding pornography and books that promote violence. I object to the idea that anything with a word someone finds offensive should be deleted. Magic, sex, exotic, erotic, mysticism, spells, amulets, fairies, doppelgangers, etc. all appear in the titles of books appropriate for Logos.
... Logos is not and does not need to be the "everything for everyone" book retailer. These would be so tangential to what Logos is trying to curate that the risk of losing users over the perception that Logos doesn't care about keeping its site free of smut is worse than the risk of losing a potential sale to one obscure researcher writing a book on "a biblical approach to erotic feminist theory" or whatever.
I agree on this as well. Another concern that came to mind recently is the potential for these books to 'contaminate' Smart Search results when doing an All search. Recently someone posted about running a search about lamb offering and getting recipe suggestions. I found it funny at the time, but it wouldn't be all that funny if I run an innocuous search on sex, sexuality etc, and I get back results from books promoting pornography and the like ...
It's not old news, that content was available as of this morning. Source: me, I found it this morning
All the books we posted are verified. In case people doubt us, we saved them to the waybackmachine/ internet archive so people can verify https://web.archive.org/web/20240512031544/https://general.ebooks.faithlife.com/product/306816/the-scorpions-sweet-venom-the-diary-of-a-brazilian-call-girl
I'd worry about an automated process of removing stuff, though.
Absent the corner trumpeting pharisee, the missing piece, is why the ebook feeds? I remember the warning from Bob, and he was prescient. But the 'why ebooks' never was discussed. I imagined:
- At the time they wanted 'lots of books'? Talked of goals.
- Only way to get really desired books (had to accept a catalog)?
- Revenue generator (I really wonder how that could even work; your kids?)
- Competing? At the time, the big A was the future.
I guess, we'll see. I'd hate for the feeds to be the big money-maker.
Nothing quite capsulizes "Discernment" bloggers than 14 posts on a USER forum over the weekend when corporate offices are closed. AFTER a senior executive (a vice president) has identified himself, stated a policy, and provided a way to have concerns addressed.
Agreed. In a way, I appreciate the work of Protestia. Logos obviously became much too lax in giving publishers freedom to release ebooks in their marketplace. I know they have made improvements in this department, but it seems there is still significant work to do. There is way too much junk out there, and Logos cannot simply assume that all publishers will only publish edifying content. Contributions like those from Protestia bring these problems to light and provide incentive for Logos to correct these mistakes, which I hope they continue to do. This results in a better experience for me and users like me who don't want to see that content when using the Logos products and website. MJ makes a good point in saying that not all questionable content is inappropriate. But much of it is indeed inappropriate and goes against Logos publishing guidelines.
That being said, the WAY Protestia is going about this leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. It appears to me that Protestia is more interested in hurting Logos than helping. It almost seems like they would be disappointed if nasty searches didn't turn up nasty results, because then they'd have nothing to write about. I hope that in the future, this is indeed the case. In the mean time, perhaps we will all benefit from the work of users like Protestia, resulting in an improved marketplace for all, regardless of what contorted motives and intentions may be lurking beneath the surface.
Logos obviously became much too lax in giving publishers freedom to release ebooks in their marketplace.
If I recall correctly, when Bob asked our opinion about taking on the ebooks, he explained that it was a standard feed of "all books" and asked if the benefits exceeded the drawbacks. Logos has no control over what publishers are on the feed. This is why I have no patience with Protestia not using the channels provided for reporting books before making a public fuss.
Thank you, that's helpful information. It does seem like a difficult problem to solve. However, if Logos cannot successfully ensure that the books being sold in their marketplace meet their publishing guidelines, then the question of whether the benefits exceed the drawbacks is indeed a difficult one to answer. I would personally tend to say that if such books are being included, then in fact the drawbacks outweigh the benefits, as it soils the reputation of the entire company. I fully understand your impatience with Protestia. Personally, I doubt he/she/they have much interest in using the proper channels, as the vibe I'm getting from reading their material is that they are more interested in stirring people up than in solving the problem. But then again, I may be wrong.
