Greek Verb Principle Parts - Word Study

I am surprised that I'm not given the principle parts of verbs when I hover over them (and especially surprised that this info doesn't come up when I do a word study). Am I missing something? This would seem to be invaluable info for anyone trying to read NT in Greek.

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Dave Hooton

Welcome Stephen

I'm not a language expert, but Logos has:-

Grammar resources for the student
Word/Vocabulary Lists that can be constructed (& printed) from a Morph Search eg. @V???1S (all first person singular verbs)
Analytical lexicons that can be accessed from a Word Study (in the Lemma section)

Also, there are wiki articles on the features of Logos.

Please ask if you want to know more

George Somsel

I am surprised that I'm not given the principle parts of verbs when I hover over them (and especially surprised that this info doesn't come up when I do a word study). Am I missing something? This would seem to be invaluable info for anyone trying to read NT in Greek.

You're probably looking for something simple and straightforward without any clutter, but I would suggest a good Greek-English or Hebrew-English lexicon. By that I mean BDAG for Greek and HALOT for Hebrew. Don't accept substitutes (because there really aren't any). These do give the principle parts.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

I am surprised that I'm not given the principle parts of verbs when I hover over them (and especially surprised that this info doesn't come up when I do a word study). Am I missing something? This would seem to be invaluable info for anyone trying to read NT in Greek.

Welcome [:)]

Using Logos 5.0b noticed mouse hover on Χαίρετε has a pop-up along bottom of panel with parsing information:

For visual filter highlighting, wiki has => http://wiki.logos.com/Extended_Tips_for_Highlighting_and_Visual_Filters#Examples_of_visual_filters

Keep Smiling [:)]

Stephen Rogers

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/463076#Comment_463076

Thanks, this is just what I was looking for. So, without a lexicon like this, there is no way in LOGOS to get the principle parts of a verb?

Also (assuming you have and use these), is there a way to set it up so that when I hover over a word, the info of that word shows up at the bottom? My scripture professor had that capability with his software (Bibleworks) and that was one of the main things I was hoping to have with LOGOS. It just makes it really easy to no have to open up a separate window (i.e. a more extensive word study) to see basic info of a single word.

parsonlarson1

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/464911#Comment_464911

What would be cool is when you right click a Greek or Hebrew word you get the option for a complete paradigm of that word. The format could be something like the Greek/Hebrew Paradigms card logos sells http://www.logos.com/product/6338/greek-and-hebrew-paradigm-charts. What would make it all the more useful is to color code it like the Zondervan "Get an A!" study guides.

This would take a lot of time to enter the data for every Greek and Hebrew word, but once the database was created Logos could do all kinds of cool stuff with it, such as a quiz/review App to help both learn and review the languages. I am sure there could be other applications I am not thinking about.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/464911#Comment_464911

is there a way to set it up so that when I hover over a word, the info of that word shows up at the bottom?

You mean like KS4J showed in the screenshot just above your post? If you don't already get that, what base package do you have, if any? Which Greek Bible are you using?

David Thomas

I don't know what resources you have in your Logos library or what platform you use (here is what I have in Windows)

By opening the INFORMATION window (available under TOOLS) I have my settings set to "click" so that any word I click on in the upper pane yields the information I see in the right panel.

I have the REVERSE INTERLINEAR information set to show up as a panel (rather than inline)

By hovering over any word in the Greek text I automatically get the popup in the bottom of my screen.

So Logos automatically gives me the parsing in 3 places.

Keith Larson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/464960#Comment_464960

He is wanting more than just the parsing, but the principle parts of each verb.

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/464911#Comment_464911

Thanks, this is just what I was looking for.

I'm sorry. When I saw this quote following KS4J's post I thought the pop-up parsing is what was being sought. I now see the the poster was referring to George Somsel's statement about BDAG containing the parts of a verb - although BDAG only dissects the lemma form.

Stephen Rogers

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/464996#Comment_464996

So Keith and David, is there a way to get the principle parts without purchasing a $150 lexicon? I'm not arguing that the lexicon wouldn't be a good investment, but I'm not able to get it just yet.

Thanks for your posting!

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465013#Comment_465013

This resource, included in Bronze and higher, may provide what you desire http://www.logos.com/product/4580/lexham-analytical-lexicon-to-the-greek-new-testament It appears it is only $30 unless you have academic pricing.

Here is a sample of the format

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465055#Comment_465055

This resource, included in Bronze and higher, may provide what you desire http://www.logos.com/product/4580/lexham-analytical-lexicon-to-the-greek-new-testament It appears it is only $30 unless you have academic pricing.

I just looked and I don't think it gives the principle parts.

I need a hamburger, Dave Thomas. [;)]

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465071#Comment_465071

It doesn't break down principle parts, but does show forms that are attested in the Bible.

Sorry, no hamburger for you! Even I can't get a discount at Wendy's when I show my Drivers License and prove I really AM Dave Thomas.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465085#Comment_465085

Even I can't get a discount at Wendy's when I show my Drivers License and prove I really AM Dave Thomas.

Perhaps you should contact your sister. She seems to have some influence [8-|]

As far as the original subject of this thread goes, there is really no substitute for actually learning the language. Logos already has too many crutches which make the user believe he has learned something when in fact he has not. Too make preachers—who think they know the language—give out false information based on faulty training.

Keith Larson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465013#Comment_465013

So Keith and David, is there a way to get the principle parts without purchasing a $150 lexicon? I'm not arguing that the lexicon wouldn't be a good investment, but I'm not able to get it just yet.

Thanks for your posting!

The best way as has been suggested is to learn the rules which cover the vast majority of Greek verbs and then learn by memory the irregular forms. "Learn to Read New Testament Greek" has a short list, but Mounce's grammar has a much better list and will explain the rules to you! If you want help memorizing these forms download Anki (a free flash card program) and you will find a user created card deck of all the words in the 3rd edition of Mounce's text. In the deck is a sub group of cards for memorizing these irregular forms. BTW they are not really "irregular" but are often different words used for different tenses or follow such a complicated set of rules that it is easier just to memorize them.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465221#Comment_465221

As far as the original subject of this thread goes, there is really no substitute for actually learning the language. Logos already has too many crutches which make the user believe he has learned something when in fact he has not. Too make preachers—who think they know the language—give out false information based on faulty training.

Jack, you're singing my song. [:)]

Keith Larson

Stephen,

If you have an iOS device there is a neat little program called FlashGreek which sells for only $9.99. Not only does it review Vocab down to 20 word frequency, but it has a principle parts quiz feature! http://www.ntgreekresources.com/flashgreek.php

The same author has another App for only $3.99 called iGreek which has tables of all the principle parts.

Finally if you really want to get a workout parsing Greek words he has a program called ParseGreek.

This is way less than $150!

Blessing on learning the language. As Jack and George are suggesting there is so much you gain by actually learning a language that cannot be reproduced by a computer program!

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465055#Comment_465055

This resource, included in Bronze and higher, may provide what you desire http://www.logos.com/product/4580/lexham-analytical-lexicon-to-the-greek-new-testament

Looking at the verb χαίρω noticed forms are in alphabetical order, which is different than paradigm grouping.

Searching a grammar collection for principal NEAR parts find many resources, including:

Greek New Testament Insert => http://www.logos.com/product/198/greek-new-testament-insert includes a list of verbal principal parts. Also noticed this resource is included in a number of base packages, including Original Languages.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Bootjack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/463076#Comment_463076

I understand that BDag & Halot are ok if one knows the languages - otherwise, one pays nearly 300.00 dollars for something one does not understand, other than a few English words here and there.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465874#Comment_465874

I guess I'll be the nutty lady and suggest HALOT/BDAG has nothing to do with the OP's question (uh oh ... here comes the expert).

But in defense of HALOT/BDAG, the recent Logos blog on 'head' I thought was terrible (now I'm really in trouble). Essentially it suggested 'head' had several meanings (called senses). Well duh. But a quick review of 'head' in HALOT essentially fills out the blog article (and would be the better answer). BDAG is essentially a theological dictionary, being more concise than TDNT. I don't think either move one in the direction of language expertise.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465874#Comment_465874

I understand that BDag & Halot are ok if one knows the languages - otherwise, one pays nearly 300.00 dollars for something one does not understand, other than a few English words here and there.

Why would anyone who doesn't know the languages be interested in BDAG and HALOT or in obtaining the principle parts? It seems that the only value it would have would be in an attempt to PRETEND a knowledge of the languages. I wouldn't favor anything to facilitate pretense.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465879#Comment_465879

BDAG is essentially a theological dictionary, being more concise than TDNT.

I would hardly call BDAG a theological dictionary unless one would also say that the Collins Unabridged Dictionary is a theological dictionary.

head (hɛd) n 1 the upper or front part of the body in vertebrates, including man, that contains and protects the brain, eyes, mouth, and nose and ears when present. Related adj cephalic 2 the corresponding part of an invertebrate animal 3 something resembling a head in form or function, such as the top of a tool 4 a the person commanding most authority within a group, organization, etc b (as modifier) head buyer c (in combination) headmaster 5 the position of leadership or command at the head of his class 6 a the most forward part of a thing; a part that juts out; front the head of a queue b (as modifier) head point 7 the highest part of a thing; upper end the head of the pass 8 the froth on the top of a glass of beer 9 aptitude, intelligence, and emotions (esp in the phrases above or over one’s head, have a head for, keep one’s head, lose one’s head, etc.) she has a good head for figures; a wise old head 10 pl head a person or animal considered as a unit the show was two pounds per head; six hundred head of cattle 11 the head considered as a measure of length or height he’s a head taller than his mother 12 botany a a dense inflorescence such as that of the daisy and other composite plants b any other compact terminal part of a plant, such as the leaves of a cabbage or lettuce 13 a culmination or crisis (esp in the phrase bring or come to a head) 14 the pus-filled tip or central part of a pimple, boil, etc 15 the head considered as the part of the body on which hair grows densely a fine head of hair 16 the source or origin of a river or stream 17 capital when part of name a headland or promontory, esp a high one 18 the obverse of a coin, usually bearing a portrait of the head or a full figure of a monarch, deity, etc. Compare tail 19 a main point or division of an argument, discourse, etc 20 often plural the headline at the top of a newspaper article or the heading of a section within an article 21 nautical a the front part of a ship or boat b (in sailing ships) the upper corner or edge of a sail c the top of any spar or derrick d any vertical timber cut to shape e often plural a slang word for lavatory 22 grammar another word for governor (sense 7) 23 the taut membrane of a drum, tambourine, etc 24 a the height of the surface of liquid above a specific point, esp when considered or used as a measure of the pressure at that point a head of four feet b pressure of water, caused by height or velocity, measured in terms of a vertical column of water c any pressure a head of steam in the boiler 25 slang a a person who regularly takes drugs, esp LSD or cannabis b (in combination) an acidhead; a pothead 26 mining a road driven into the coal face 27 a the terminal point of a route b (in combination) railhead 28 a device on a turning or boring machine, such as a lathe, that is equipped with one or more cutting tools held to the work by this device 29 See cylinder head 30 an electromagnet that can read, write, or erase information on a magnetic medium such as a magnetic tape, disk, or drum, used in computers, tape recorders, etc 31 informal short for headmaster, headmistress 32 a the head of a horse considered as a narrow margin in the outcome of a race (in the phrase win by a head) b any narrow margin of victory (in the phrase (win) by a head) 33 informal short for headache 34 curling the stones lying in the house after all 16 have been played 35 bowls the jack and the bowls that have been played considered together as a target area 36 against the head rugby from the opposing side’s put-in to the scrum 37 bite or or snap someone’s head off to speak sharply and angrily to someone 38 bring or come to a head a to bring or be brought to a crisis matters came to a head b (of a boil) to cause to be or be about to burst 39 get it into one’s head to come to believe (an idea, esp a whimsical one) he got it into his head that the earth was flat 40 give head slang to perform fellatio 41 give someone (or something) his (or its) head a to allow a person greater freedom or responsibility b to allow a horse to gallop by lengthening the reins 42 go to one’s head a to make one dizzy or confused, as might an alcoholic drink b to make one conceited his success has gone to his head 43 head and shoulders above greatly superior to 44 head over heels a turning a complete somersault b completely; utterly (esp in the phrase head over heels in love) 45 hold up one’s head to be unashamed 46 keep one’s head to remain calm 47 keep one’s head above water to manage to survive a difficult experience 48 make head to make progress 49 make head or tail of used with a negative to attempt to understand (a problem, etc.) he couldn’t make head or tail of the case 50 off (or out of) one’s head slang insane or delirious 51 off the top of one’s head without previous thought; impromptu 52 on one’s (own) head at one’s (own) risk or responsibility 53 one’s head off slang loudly or excessively the baby cried its head off 54 over someone’s head a without a person in the obvious position being considered, esp for promotion the graduate was promoted over the heads of several of his seniors b without consulting a person in the obvious position but referring to a higher authority in making his complaint he went straight to the director, over the head of his immediate boss c beyond a person’s comprehension 55 put (our, their, etc.) heads together informal to consult together 56 take it into one’s head to conceive a notion, desire, or wish (to do something) 57 turn heads to be so beautiful, unusual, or impressive as to attract a lot of attention 58 turn or stand (something) on its head to treat or present (something) in a completely new and different way health care which has turned orthodox medicine on its head 59 turn someone’s head to make someone vain, conceited, etc ▷ vb 60 tr to be at the front or top of to head the field 61 tr; often foll by up to be in the commanding or most important position 62 often foll by for to go or cause to go (towards) where are you heading? 63 to turn or steer (a vessel) as specified to head into the wind 64 soccer to propel (the ball) by striking it with the head 65 tr to provide with or be a head or heading to head a letter; the quotation which heads chapter 6 66 tr to cut the top branches or shoots off (a tree or plant) 67 intr to form a head, as a boil or plant 68 intr; often foll by in (of streams, rivers, etc.) to originate or rise in 69 head them Austral to toss the coins in a game of two-up ▷ See also head for, head off, heads [Old English hēafod; related to Old Norse haufuth, Old Frisian hāved, Old Saxon hōbid, Old High German houbit] > ˈheadˌlike adj

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465882#Comment_465882

Maybe I'm being picky (!), but if you persue the NT wording from (1) outside the greek and (2) in light of concepts in the 2nd Temple literature, and then backtrack to Aland and thense BDAG, BDAG's a theological dictionary for use with Aland (since few users actually dig into the intro section of each word, moving straight to definition / NT reference).

I know this is BADLY off topic, but the second chapter of the Charlesworth Princeton symposium pre-pub really illustrates the problem. As much as I hate Logos4/5 formatted resources, I signed up for this one.

Danny Zacharias

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465300#Comment_465300

Thanks for the shout-out Keith!

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465806#Comment_465806

Greek New Testament Insert => http://www.logos.com/product/198/greek-new-testament-insert includes a list of verbal principal parts

Morph search analysis can group principal part usage:

Keep Smiling [:)]

Joseph Grabau

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465874#Comment_465874

I think you will find that BDAG like LSJ tends to print most principle parts, especially non-standard ones, near the very first lines of each entry. For example: ἀποστέλλω prints the following: fut. ἀποστελῶ; 1 aor. ἀπέστειλα; the first because it is a contract-future, and the second to indicate that the verb makes use of a first aorist as indicated.

In general, I think you are best served to memorize typical patterns each principle part tends to take, and then to notice any significant departure from the norm, however slight.

Lee Patmore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/465013#Comment_465013

I think this is new to Logos 10, but the principal parts are listed in Bible Word Study. But there appears to be an error. Instead of listing the Aorist Passive in the 6th spot, it lists the Aorist Active again (ἔλυσα instead of ἐλύθην). When you mouse over it, it calls it an Aorist Passive in the drop-down menu. But it's not. I looked this up for several words. Somebody needs to fix this.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1300446#Comment_1300446

Somebody needs to fix this.

Lee, responding to a post that is over a decade old in a forum for software that is no longer supported is likely to not be seen by the appropriate Logos staff. Either repost in the current desktop app or ask that it be moved there.

Lee Patmore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1300448#Comment_1300448

Thanks, will do.