Hi all,
I'm back with a few more updates on subscription. Today, I'm talking through some of the perks we're thinking about for launch this fall.
As always, I welcome your thoughts and constructive feedback.—B
I appreciate you taking the time for an update, I wish there was more encouragement for myself as a user personally. As it sounds as though logos is firmly committed to a monthly or subscription-based option, even for what you're calling forever, access. Forever access, based on your comments I'm assuming is what we call perpetual license.
It is disappointing, that there has not been an announcement that we will have the same option to just purchase outright rather than having to subscribe for 2 years to earn features that we may or may not be interested in depending on what is considered cloud-based and AI based.
A question that does come up in relation to this, is along the lines of Mark Barnes comments in previous posts. Mark had suggested that there will be discounted annual options for subscription and quite possibly biannual options at a discount for the subscription. So my question is this, will those discounted bi-annual subscriptions or discounted annual subscriptions apply to what you're calling forever? Access to the features we have if we stop subscribing after 24 months? If so, then why not just offer the purchase of the features for the same price as the 2-month discounted subscription?
I guess we'll get more next month. But off the top of my calculating head, the breakeven subscription (for me) is going to be 10 bucks a month. That's the Full-Feature divided by the 'retain-access' of 24 months (new features, previously dynamic-priced). I don't need more free books, nor rewards, nor tiny percentage offs. I'm not very perky ... and I assume, the perks are strictly launch-only.
Now, based strictly on rumor, the content in my above breakeven (all the features) are likely to be the 'max' subscription. Or multiples of my current breakeven. I can see that being great for Bill. But not for me.
Essentially, Bill needs to deliver multiples of value, compared to the past. Not likely.
So .... other Logosians will need to step up to the plate, and fund Logos. We'll await the next message.
ADDED: Crazy me ... it just dawned on me (or maybe listen to the video again). A newbie (smart newbie) can pick up all (that's the question) features in 24 months for maybe $800 or so ($35 x 24). Now, an oldie (me) would spend the same (same subscription) and end up with considerably less (I already 'own' most). Now ignoring 'fairness', the model really turns on lots of smart newbies.
Thank you, Bill, for this update and for your team's ongoing efforts to enhance the Logos software. It's commendable that you're actively seeking ways to provide value to your customers while also ensuring the long-term sustainability of the platform.
Your approach of sharing updates and welcoming constructive feedback demonstrates a commitment to transparency and customer engagement, which is greatly appreciated.
Your forward-thinking approach is crucial for keeping Logos at the forefront of Bible study software. We look forward to learning more about how these changes will benefit both new and existing users while ensuring the platform's continued growth and innovation.
Thank you again for keeping the community informed and involved in this process.
Thank you sir. As an old/current Faithlife Connect subscriber I am still waiting to be converted over to the new system. I would love to hear more on that!
Appreciate your time.
So it's shifted from what we thought we were promised (Mark promised we'd keep our books and features we already had with L10, and bristled if we questioned that).
Bill says now, to keep the features you had in L10, you have to have subscribed for a minimum of 24 months (3:05-3:48), with the "Legacy Fallback License". So those of us who will not subscribe will lose our features we've paid for (or so it sounds). And even if we do subscribe for the minimum required period to keep them, after we drop the subscription we can't use any features which use the cloud (which is most of them).
As I suspected when this first dropped, the promise to let us keep our purchases would be a hollow one if they pulled the features which make use of those resources/books.
the perks
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
So it's shifted from what we thought we were promised (Mark promised we'd keep our books and features we already had with L10, and bristled if we questioned that). Bill says now, to keep the features you had in L10, you have to have subscribed for a minimum of 24 months (3:05-3:48), with the "Legacy Fallback License". So those of us who will not subscribe will lose our features we've paid for (or so it sounds). And even if we do subscribe for the minimum required period to keep them, after we drop the subscription we can't use any features which use the cloud (which is most of them). As I suspected when this first dropped, the promise to let us keep our purchases would be a hollow one if they pulled the features which make use of those resources/books. the perks "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
I think he meant the legacy fallback is going to be whatever features you have access to during those 24 months that you’ll be able to keep them except the ones that are cloud-base. Your original features that you own right now they are yours regardless.
DAL
I think he meant the legacy fallback is going to be whatever features you have access to during those 24 months that you’ll be able to keep them except the ones that are cloud-base. Your original features that you own right now they are yours regardless. DAL
I listened to it at least five times to (hopefully) hear something like that. He didn't say it.
And again, if they aren't including cloud-based features in the Legacy Fallback License, what makes anyone think they'll stay active for non-subscribers?
Doc has better ears than mine ... Logos 10. And Mark was encouraging Logos 10 Full Features ... so people could lose them in 24 months. Well, anyway.
So it's shifted from what we thought we were promised (Mark promised we'd keep our books and features we already had with L10, and bristled if we questioned that). Bill says now, to keep the features you had in L10, you have to have subscribed for a minimum of 24 months (3:05-3:48), with the "Legacy Fallback License". So those of us who will not subscribe will lose our features we've paid for (or so it sounds).
Bill says now, to keep the features you had in L10, you have to have subscribed for a minimum of 24 months (3:05-3:48), with the "Legacy Fallback License". So those of us who will not subscribe will lose our features we've paid for (or so it sounds).
Bill and I are saying the same thing. This is what Bill said in the video (starting at 3:00):
For those of you who own Logos 10 you'll be eligible for a perk we call Legacy fallback license... Unlike most subscriptions, this perk will allow you to retain access to your features from your subscription that don't rely on the cloud or AI after you've been subscribed for 24 months, even if you cancel the subscription.
Regardless of whether you subscribe or not, you will keep features you've already paid for.
The fallback license will allow you to additionally keep any features you haven't previously paid for but were in the subscription (except Cloud/AI features).
So it's shifted from what we thought we were promised (Mark promised we'd keep our books and features we already had with L10, and bristled if we questioned that). Bill says now, to keep the features you had in L10, you have to have subscribed for a minimum of 24 months (3:05-3:48), with the "Legacy Fallback License". So those of us who will not subscribe will lose our features we've paid for (or so it sounds). Bill and I are saying the same thing. This is what Bill said in the video (starting at 3:00): For those of you who own Logos 10 you'll be eligible for a perk we call Legacy fallback license... Unlike most subscriptions, this perk will allow you to retain access to your features from your subscription that don't rely on the cloud or AI after you've been subscribed for 24 months, even if you cancel the subscription. Regardless of whether you subscribe or not, you will keep features you've already paid for. The fallback license will allow you to additionally keep any features you haven't previously paid for but were in the subscription (except Cloud/AI features).
I knew it! Send me the link to Logos Max early access, so I can subscribe too!
Ok, this is getting odd. If you don't own L10 (whatever that is ... any L10?), then you're not eligible for the Legacy Fallback (LFB) perk for unowned featues during the subscription? Or the LFB is only for L10 owners ... during launch. Or ...
I think DAL better check the price first.
I listened to it a sixth time, and I still don't hear the boss saying that.
But I'll assume it's true for now since you say that's what he means.
That begs a question: If the cost of getting the new features is a 24-month subscription (say, $10 a month for 24 months...$240), why not make them available for the same price ($240 in this example) as a one-time fee? Then you'd have the same revenue and you wouldn't have alienated a whole busload of your formerly loyal customers by imposing a subscription model on them. [:(]
I agree. He doesn't say that. This video was about perks, not about restating a policy we've stated again and again and again. But Bill does NOT say you will LOSE features you've already paid for because that is not the policy.
So, to summarize what we're saying.
Hi, Bill.
Thanks for the update. I am glad to hear about the "fallback license". Two quick questions for now.
1) If I am a Logos 10 owner and already subscribed to Logos Pro, are these months counting toward the 24 months needed for the "fallback license?
2) I understand the AI features being tied to a subscription, but will you still consider letting us "fallback" customers keep at least some of them? I was a little surprised by adding new cloud features to the exclusions. If AI and Cloud features are not included, it could certainly lower the incentive, especially if most of the new features fall under these two categories. I hope there will be new desktop features as well.
Thanks in advance.
Steve
Logos 10 owners who subscribe for 24 months will also receive: A Legacy Fallback License which you qualify for after 24 months. This will allow you to keep non-AI/Cloud features even if you subsequently cancel your subscription.
How would this work? Suppose there aren't any non-AI/cloud features that interest me enough to pay for in the first 12 months, but you add a compelling one in month 13. If this prompts me to subscribe for 24 months to "buy" it, do I also get to keep those features from the initial 12 months? What about a feature that was released in month 36? Do I get to keep that also because I've crossed the 24-month threshold?
Also, is this a one-chance offer, only available to day-1 subscribers, or will it apply even if I decide to subscribe later, as in the example above?
If this prompts me to subscribe for 24 months to "buy" it, do I also get to keep those features from the initial 12 months?
The fallback license will include features that were added to Logos before you started subscribing. (So a new customer's fallback license would include features released in L10, L9, and so on.)
I can't guarantee that fallback will be offered to new subscribers in perpetuity, but it's not just a day-one offer.
But he didn't say that. As I wrote earlier, what Bill said was:For those of you who own Logos 10 you'll be eligible for a perk we call Legacy fallback license... Unlike most subscriptions, this perk will allow you to retain access to your features from your subscription that don't rely on the cloud or AI after you've been subscribed for 24 months, even if you cancel the subscription.
Mark,
From all this is it clear that a Logos 10 Silver owner would retain access to all features in the subscription (with exceptions as stated) after 24 months i.e. L10 Full + subsequent features, AND would be on the same discount level as those who "own Logos 10" (not being a new customer)?
Does anyone know if the premium has been launched, I am only able to resubscribe to pro, but I don‘t built sermons. So would like to see what is included in the premium option.
https://www.logos.com/early-access/subscriptions will show it if you are eligible.
What happens if a person does not sign up now? Does "early access" price go away?
Since I own Logos 10 with all features, is there any advantage to paying more for a higher tier? It appears to me that the only thing I gain with any of these is AI search. It speaks of other "cloud based features" but I am not aware that any such features exist ...
https://www.logos.com/early-access/subscriptions will show it if you are eligible. What happens if a person does not sign up now? Does "early access" price go away? Since I own Logos 10 with all features, is there any advantage to paying more for a higher tier? It appears to me that the only thing I gain with any of these is AI search. It speaks of other "cloud based features" but I am not aware that any such features exist ...
John,
Hopefully the actual feature content will be added for users to see what they would gain with each subscription tier - see Mark's response below, seems it is being worked on.
It's nice that the ability to see just books gained is an option now. To help answer some of the questions that are thus far unanswered clearly, adding a Features section that allow you to see what Features you gain would be helpful. AI is pushed in the top section, but nothing informative beyond that. "Dozens of datasets and tools to help you uncover fresh insights" doesn't give any insight to what you are buying like we had/have with the L10 features. Especially needed for those who already own some or all of the L10 Feature Set. Agreed. This is coming. FWIW, every feature currently in these packages that is not already in the L10 full feature set been announced on the forums: Smart Search, Summarization, Sermon Assistant, Insights, and the Commentaries section in Factbook. Help Center is in beta and will be included when v35 releases to stable. Sermon Assistant is not included in Logos Premium. More features and improvements will follow in v36 and v37, of course.
It's nice that the ability to see just books gained is an option now. To help answer some of the questions that are thus far unanswered clearly, adding a Features section that allow you to see what Features you gain would be helpful. AI is pushed in the top section, but nothing informative beyond that. "Dozens of datasets and tools to help you uncover fresh insights" doesn't give any insight to what you are buying like we had/have with the L10 features. Especially needed for those who already own some or all of the L10 Feature Set.
It's nice that the ability to see just books gained is an option now. To help answer some of the questions that are thus far unanswered clearly, adding a Features section that allow you to see what Features you gain would be helpful. AI is pushed in the top section, but nothing informative beyond that.
"Dozens of datasets and tools to help you uncover fresh insights" doesn't give any insight to what you are buying like we had/have with the L10 features. Especially needed for those who already own some or all of the L10 Feature Set.
Agreed. This is coming.
FWIW, every feature currently in these packages that is not already in the L10 full feature set been announced on the forums: Smart Search, Summarization, Sermon Assistant, Insights, and the Commentaries section in Factbook. Help Center is in beta and will be included when v35 releases to stable. Sermon Assistant is not included in Logos Premium.
More features and improvements will follow in v36 and v37, of course.
Mark Barnes,
Since the clock apparently hasn't started on the 24 months for the fallback period during this "preview" time, can you tell me when I should subscribe to start the 24-month period? Will it be the official rollout date?
And if I am wrong, just let me know it has started :-)
Thank you.
I just stumbled on to this video as I do not read the forums very often. I am somewhat concerned where this is going but will have to see what happens. I do hope some of this is documented somewhere in an email or a separate Logos webpage and people are advised of the changes. After all we get bombarded almost daily by email with promotions surely something can be advised formally.
Colin
