Questions About the New Subscription Model

I'm not fond of the new subscription format, but there's nothing I can do besides subscribe or not subscribe. At this point, in weighing the pros and cons, I'm finding very little of the former. Answers to the following questions would help in my decision making process.

How long is the early access price for Logos 10 Full Feature Set owners going to be available?
If the subscription is not going to stay the same price after the first year, what kind of increase is being considered?
How many and what kind of offline features are planned going forward compared to AI and cloud based features?
With the Legacy Fallback License, do I keep all current offline features if I cancel my subscription after 24 months, or only the features that have been released for at least 24 months of my subscription?

In regards to #1 above, with no interest in AI features, nor in renting books curated by another, the early access price isn't a bargain. It's paying ahead for 12 months in the hopes that something of value to me will materialize in the future.

#2 will have a big impact on renewing beyond the initial 12 months. If the price seems too high for the value received, cancelling at that point will leave me with nothing to show as I haven't yet reached the 24 month continual subscription to retain any offline features that may be released over that 12 month period.

#3 The value of a Legacy Fallback License hinges on this, and unless I'm mistaken, nothing new in the subscription at this point is offline, it's all AI and cloud based.

#4 Again, the value of a Legacy Fallback License hinges on this too. If I only keep the offline features that have been released and subscribed to for 24 months, it's a dangling carrot. Anything released for 23 months or less wouldn't count unless I renew the subscription, and on it would go. Please clarify this.

Please understand, I love Logos 10. I had plans to purchase the Logos 11 full feature set when it came out and to continue to build my library. Logos has completely changed the way I study, and I'm very thankful for it. But the subscription model using AI, cloud based features, and book rentals changes so much on the path to those studies. I would like a clear picture of what the future looks like to help me make an informed decision. If any of this has already been clarified and I missed it, my apologies. It's been challenging to keep up with all the related threads.

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Comments

DMB

Questions 1-3 are speculative, as you probably appreciate.

But question #4 is interesting. Mark (Logos) was ballyhooing the fallback as picking up L10 features (ie new since 10/22). Plus 'L11' would-be features. And you already have the earlier features.

But other folks, I'd speculate would only fallback recent features ... not the older ones at 10/22. Ergo, buying the full-feature now.

Dave Hooton

1. How long is the early access price for Logos 10 Full Feature Set owners going to be available?

2. If the subscription is not going to stay the same price after the first year, what kind of increase is being considered?

As annual subscription is available the price should continue for 12 months beyond the official release date in the Fall. There is no forecast increase.

3. How many and what kind of offline features are planned going forward compared to AI and cloud based features?

In general, you won't have the benefit of knowing what new features are planned for the next 12 months, let alone 24 months. You can participate in Beta testing to know what will be available within 6 weeks, though, and you may get notice of a feature that is being tested in the web app before it is tested on the desktop.

4. Again, the value of a Legacy Fallback License hinges on this too. If I only keep the offline features that have been released and subscribed to for 24 months, it's a dangling carrot. Anything released for 23 months or less wouldn't count unless I renew the subscription, and on it would go. Please clarify this.

That is the only carrot. If you "stay subscribed for 2 years" you can "keep Logos features excluding AI and cloud-based tools". There is no time caveat on the features!

1Cor10 31

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1305723#Comment_1305723

3. How many and what kind of offline features are planned going forward compared to AI and cloud based features?

In general, you won't have the benefit of knowing what new features are planned for the next 12 months, let alone 24 months.

This is the problem with the subscription model. I am being asked to pay for unknown features.

My question: What happens if I begin subscribing after 2 years and then continue subscription for a continuous 24 months. Won't I be getting all the features over the 2 years I didn't subscribe and the 24 months for which I subscribed?

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1305736#Comment_1305736

My question: What happens if I begin subscribing after 2 years and then continue subscription for a continuous 24 months. Won't I be getting all the features over the 2 years I didn't subscribe and the 24 months for which I subscribed?

You will be getting (not owning) all the features available to that subscription tier, same as Connect. Same as happens with Early Access. You only pay for a tier with more features. The interesting question is what Legacy Fallback features you will be entitled to after 2 years as it seems that you are not eligible for the previous 2 years and won't be entitled to features outside of your subscription.!

Note that Mark B has stated that the first 2 year entitlement cannot be purchased before Oct 2026, even if you have an Early Access subscription.

1Cor10 31

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1305745#Comment_1305745

1Cor10 31">My question: What happens if I begin subscribing after 2 years and then continue subscription for a continuous 24 months. Won't I be getting all the features over the 2 years I didn't subscribe and the 24 months for which I subscribed?

The interesting question is what Legacy Fallback features you will be entitled to after 2 years as it seems that you are not eligible for the previous 2 years and won't be entitled to features outside of your subscription.!

Thanks Dave.

If I start subscribing to Pro, say, in Oct 2026 and I subscribe for 2 years till Sep 2028, I should get all non-AI/Cloud features as Legacy Fallback option, am I right? A person who starts subscribing in Oct 2024 and subscribes till Sep 2028 will get the same non-AI-Cloud features as Legacy Fallback option, am I right? So I am not clear what the difference would be?

If they don't offer dynamic subscription price, like the way they do with Feature sets now, why should I hurry to subscribe?

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1305833#Comment_1305833

A person who starts subscribing in Oct 2024 and subscribes till Sep 2028 will get the same non-AI-Cloud features as Legacy Fallback option, am I right?

They will be entitled to 2 x Legacy Fallback, one in 2026 and the other in 2028. IF you would be entitled to the same features after 2 years, it is likely you will also pay for 2024-2026. Think what that person will be getting after 2026.

Before the Fall, Mark Barnes has said that we will know what features at that time are eligible for the 2026 Legacy Fallback. That is the only certainty in this discussion.

Frank Sauer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1305833#Comment_1305833

1Cor10 31">My question: What happens if I begin subscribing after 2 years and then continue subscription for a continuous 24 months. Won't I be getting all the features over the 2 years I didn't subscribe and the 24 months for which I subscribed?

The interesting question is what Legacy Fallback features you will be entitled to after 2 years as it seems that you are not eligible for the previous 2 years and won't be entitled to features outside of your subscription.!

Thanks Dave.

If I start subscribing to Pro, say, in Oct 2026 and I subscribe for 2 years till Sep 2028, I should get all non-AI/Cloud features as Legacy Fallback option, am I right? A person who starts subscribing in Oct 2024 and subscribes till Sep 2028 will get the same non-AI-Cloud features as Legacy Fallback option, am I right? So I am not clear what the difference would be?

If they don't offer dynamic subscription price, like the way they do with Feature sets now, why should I hurry to subscribe?

If I understood the vague responses that we've seen so far, I think it was hinted that the introductory prices won't be available at some point, even for the L10 Full Feature Set owners - so the "risk" could be rather than the current Monthly and Annual options - the price may or may not be substantially higher. (Similar to if you skipped an upgrade version in the past - it would cost you more because you'd be paying for two upgrades at once) So, it would depend on whether you think that the Features that they will include in the "fallback" are worth the price or not....

1Cor10 31

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1305843#Comment_1305843

Thank you Dave. Still a lot of confusion. Sorry, if it has been answered elsewhere.

1Cor10 31">A person who starts subscribing in Oct 2024 and subscribes till Sep 2028 will get the same non-AI-Cloud features as Legacy Fallback option, am I right?

They will be entitled to 2 x Legacy Fallback, one in 2026 and the other in 2028.

People are going to subscribing every month. Are the Legacy Fallback options available only at fixed points in time, once in Fall 2026 and once in Fall 2028? If so, it makes no sense for a person to join in the middle of 2 cycles, say, Jan 2025. You would then be subscribing for 3.5 years till Fall 2028 to get 2 years worth of Legacy Fallback options developed from Fall2026-Fall2028.

1Cor10 31">A person who starts subscribing in Oct 2024 and subscribes till Sep 2028 will get the same non-AI-Cloud features as Legacy Fallback option, am I right?

IF you would be entitled to the same features after 2 years, it is likely you will also pay for 2024-2026. Think what that person will be getting after 2026.

The way it will have to be implemented is through dynamic price, isn't it? So, if I join in Oct 2026, my subscription has to be higher. OR Are you telling me that if I start subscribing in Oct2026-Sep2028, I get only the features developed during the 2-year period that I subscribed?

Let’s try a thought experiment. Let’s say that a new no-AI/cloud feature is introduced in Aug 2028, one month before I stop subscribing. This feature is going to be available as a Legacy Fallback option for me because it was a feature that was introduced in the 2-year window that I subscribed. Next, comes the difficulty. We know that features gets updates, but I will not get updates to these features once I STOP subscribing. Thus, they have to keep track for each customer, not only the features that each customer is eligible, but which version of the feature they are eligible. Am I right?

1Cor10 31">A person who starts subscribing in Oct 2024 and subscribes till Sep 2028 will get the same non-AI-Cloud features as Legacy Fallback option, am I right?

Before the Fall, Mark Barnes has said that we will know what features at that time are eligible for the 2026 Legacy Fallback. That is the only certainty in this discussion.

I am a lot more confused now. If they don’t know what features will be developed over the next 2 years (which Mark has acknowledged), how could they possibly tell what features will be available as Legacy Fallback option as of 2026?

1Cor10 31

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1305861#Comment_1305861

1Cor10 31">

1Cor10 31">My question: What happens if I begin subscribing after 2 years and then continue subscription for a continuous 24 months. Won't I be getting all the features over the 2 years I didn't subscribe and the 24 months for which I subscribed?

The interesting question is what Legacy Fallback features you will be entitled to after 2 years as it seems that you are not eligible for the previous 2 years and won't be entitled to features outside of your subscription.!

Thanks Dave.

If I start subscribing to Pro, say, in Oct 2026 and I subscribe for 2 years till Sep 2028, I should get all non-AI/Cloud features as Legacy Fallback option, am I right? A person who starts subscribing in Oct 2024 and subscribes till Sep 2028 will get the same non-AI-Cloud features as Legacy Fallback option, am I right? So I am not clear what the difference would be?

If they don't offer dynamic subscription price, like the way they do with Feature sets now, why should I hurry to subscribe?

If I understood the vague responses that we've seen so far, I think it was hinted that the introductory prices won't be available at some point, even for the L10 Full Feature Set owners - so the "risk" could be rather than the current Monthly and Annual options - the price may or may not be substantially higher. (Similar to if you skipped an upgrade version in the past - it would cost you more because you'd be paying for two upgrades at once) So, it would depend on whether you think that the Features that they will include in the "fallback" are worth the price or not....

I will rather pay higher prices later on for a known product than lower prices for an uncertain product. I understand that other peoples' tradeoffs are different. If the jacked-up prices after the initial introductory offer are too steep, I will pass on purchasing the new features.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1305872#Comment_1305872

I will rather pay higher prices later on for a known product than lower prices for an uncertain product.

The point I was making is that the uncertainty exists all the time because you don't know what you will be getting in the next two years, let alone know what Fallback License you will be eligible for. What are your assumptions here?

1Cor10 31

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1306115#Comment_1306115

1Cor10 31">I will rather pay higher prices later on for a known product than lower prices for an uncertain product.

The point I was making is that the uncertainty exists all the time because you don't know what you will be getting in the next two years, let alone know what Fallback License you will be eligible for. What are your assumptions here?

I totally understand that the uncertainty of the future is always going to be there whenever I start subscribing. Let's say I start subscribing after 2 years. Since I'm joining 2 years late, let's say the subscription price is $20/month. I will know what features they've developed in the 2 years (Fall2024-Fall2026) that I will get as Legacy Fallback option for subscribing for 2 years after I begin subscription (Fall2026-Fall2028). But I won't know what features they will develop in the period: (Fall2026-Fall2028). Therefore, my subscription might be overpaying for the features if they don't develop any non-AI/cloud features in the 2 years that I subscribe (Fall2026-Fall2028). But if that happens, I will stop my subscription and they will lose me as a customer because they've stopped innovating.

I hope I am clear.