Subscription comparison chart

Several people have asked for a subscription comparison chart. Our developers are working on producing such a chart, but that's likely to take several more weeks.

In the meantime, this spreadsheet might help a bit. Please note that this spreadsheet is a draft, so there may be a few errors. And it is subject to change. It also doesn't include any books because those are already listed on the subscriptions page. But hopefully, it's a lot better than what you have right now.

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Comments

Aaron Hamilton

I think this is great. This seems like a good opportunity to bring up another highly requested piece of information: please include an additional column identifying whether or not the feature will be included in the legacy fallback license. Or better yet, the check marks could be color coded, with, for example, green check marks displaying features which will be included in the LFL and grey check marks displaying features that will not.

Bill Anderson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1308927#Comment_1308927

This may be a stupid question, but are all these features brand new or are there features listed that are in the Logos 10 full feature set? If there is overlap, for those of us that have the Logos 10 feature set it would be helpful if that was keyed somehow.

Aaron Hamilton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1308928#Comment_1308928

This may be a stupid question, but are all these features brand new or are there features listed that are in the Logos 10 full feature set? If there is overlap, for those of us that have the Logos 10 feature set it would be helpful if that was keyed somehow.

There is massive overlap. Most features listed are not new. Already owned features will likely be easily identifiable at launch. At least this is the way it is now. I can go to any feature package and filter out every feature that I own. This system works well, and I hope it will be integrated into the process of selecting a new subscription this Fall.

Rick Erickson

Holy cow! This makes me feel even better about what I'm paying for. I didn't realize I had so much - a bit overwhelming. Good stuff. Thank you.

Mark Barnes (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1308928#Comment_1308928

This may be a stupid question, but are all these features brand new or are there features listed that are in the Logos 10 full feature set? If there is overlap, for those of us that have the Logos 10 feature set it would be helpful if that was keyed somehow.

I've now highlighted new features in blue. Everything that's part of early access or in beta is listed, and at least one feature which hasn't been announced before but should be coming fairly soon. There are some other things we're also building that aren't in the list at all yet.

Jonathan Spilger

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1308942#Comment_1308942

I'm guessing the Bible Study Builder feature is in beta or not out yet... If this is what it sounds like, it could be amazing.

Justin Gatlin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1308932#Comment_1308932

I started making a table where you can filter out what you already own but I am out of time to work on it. If anyone wants to add more, feel free. You can just click Logos 10 Level to filter by the minimum package needed to have it. There are some changes where things that were in one package will be either a higher or lower level in subscription, but they all seem to make a lot of sense.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YlqV7yE2G5agee54eHe7a7P2T6GH-dn5vzdSJum33TY/edit?usp=sharing

Frank Sauer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1308942#Comment_1308942

This may be a stupid question, but are all these features brand new or are there features listed that are in the Logos 10 full feature set? If there is overlap, for those of us that have the Logos 10 feature set it would be helpful if that was keyed somehow.

I've now highlighted new features in blue. Everything that's part of early access or in beta is listed, and at least one feature which hasn't been announced before but should be coming fairly soon. There are some other things we're also building that aren't in the list at all yet.

Thanks for providing what is listed here - any chance it can be updated to include notation of what would be included in the Fallback License?

Mark Barnes (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1308952#Comment_1308952

Thanks for providing what is listed here - any chance it can be updated to include notation of what would be included in the Fallback License?

I'm going on vacation tomorrow, but I'll see what I can do.

Don Awalt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1308962#Comment_1308962

Thanks Mark, this is an impressive list! For when you get back from vacation lol, at some point, will we be able to tell what features are new to us based on what we have bought? I am really having a hard time figuring out what level makes the most sense to me. Thanks Mark for considering this!

Tom Reynolds

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1308965#Comment_1308965

Thanks Mark. This is very helpful. Have a great vacation!

NichtnurBibelleser

Will there be a similar spreadsheet for Verbum subscriptions and/or german language subscriptions?

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1308997#Comment_1308997

Will there be a similar spreadsheet for Verbum subscriptions and/or german language subscriptions?

I’m not on those teams, but probably not. I put this together because we don’t yet have a comparison page. I’m pretty confident that by the time Verbum or German go on sale the comparison page will be done.

Chris Heil

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1308962#Comment_1308962

I'm going on vacation tomorrow, but I'll see what I can do.

Enjoy your vacation Mark. You very much deserve it!

1Cor10 31

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1308962#Comment_1308962

I'm going on vacation tomorrow, but I'll see what I can do.

I hope your vacation recharges you. I can see that the very prospect of taking a vacation has put back years into your life. See the profile photos before you talk about the vacation and after you talk about the vacation!

1Cor10 31

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1308942#Comment_1308942

I've now highlighted new features in blue. Everything that's part of early access or in beta is listed, and at least one feature which hasn't been announced before but should be coming fairly soon. There are some other things we're also building that aren't in the list at all yet.

Mark: Thank you putting out this table. This chart is the most helpful thing you've put out in the last month or so to help customers.

1. Highlighting the new features and the features that are being worked on is super helpful. Uncertainty of what we are paying for could keep people away from a wonderful product. So please continue to update the spreadsheet or in other form to highlight the features that are new being worked on.

please include an additional column identifying whether or not the feature will be included in the legacy fallback license.

2. I am going to second Aaron. Please highlight what features will be included in Legacy Fallback License.

3. Relatedly, I would also request a column to indicate whether the feature is Cloud or AI or Neither since only non-cloud/AI features will be included in Legacy Fallback License. The reason I am asking for this is because it will give us a sense for what features you consider cloud (guessing AI feature is straightforward based on feature name, I am assuming).

Thank you.

NichtnurBibelleser

Several people have asked for a subscription comparison chart. Our developers are working on producing such a chart, but that's likely to take several more weeks.

In the meantime, this spreadsheet might help a bit. Please note that this spreadsheet is a draft, so there may be a few errors. And it is subject to change. It also doesn't include any books because those are already listed on the subscriptions page. But hopefully, it's a lot better than what you have right now.

Thanks for the chart, Mark! Only to clarify: Many of the items listed under "Logos Max" I already have purchased (full Tools; some Gold package... ). Can I continue to use them independently from subscribing for "Logos Max" and / or some "fallback licence"?

Daniel Wurzberg

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1309049#Comment_1309049

So after lookin at the Gsheet, it seems I some of features under Logos Pro (As I bought Preaching Suite, I actually have Logos starter features by default). So I guess if I upgrade to L11, I'll be downgraded to L11 Free unless I subscribe to Pro. But if I keep my L10 install, I get to use the features I have. Am I getting this right? Tnx

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1309074#Comment_1309074

(As I bought Preaching Suite, I actually have Logos starter features by default).

Do you mean that you bought Logos Starter?

If so, you will own all the features included in both Starter and the Preaching Suite

So I guess if I upgrade to L11, I'll be downgraded to L11 Free unless I subscribe to Pro. But if I keep my L10 install, I get to use the features I have

Under the new model, upgrading is taking out a subscription - to either Premier, Pro or Max. If you do that, you will get any additional features made available in those while retaining the features you currently own.

If you don't take out a subscription then you will continue to own the features you currently have and continue to get updates to the software engine as is currently the case.

xnman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1309076#Comment_1309076

Under the new model, upgrading is taking out a subscription - to either Premier, Pro or Max. If you do that, you will get any additional features made available in those while retaining the features you currently own.

If you don't take out a subscription then you will continue to own the features you currently have and continue to get updates to the software engine as is currently the case.

And if I may add... (I think I understand this right)... that if you buy some of the books in the subscription plan while you are subscribed to a subscription, then you keep those books also should you quit the subscription.

For me the subscription is great! I don't loose what I have plus I get all the new features as they come out (and I think the new features will come out in subscription first (after beta of course)).

And one bonus of subscriptions... you get a whole bunch of books with the subscription. You get to try them, use them, decide if you want them or not. I think that's a huge bonus!

GaoLu

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1309101#Comment_1309101

Although I have never done it, I think we are welcome to choose books we think we might like, try them, and return them if we don't like them---for free. Why pay to do that?

Michael

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1309076#Comment_1309076

(As I bought Preaching Suite, I actually have Logos starter features by default).

Do you mean that you bought Logos Starter?

If so, you will own all the features included in both Starter and the Preaching Suite

So I guess if I upgrade to L11, I'll be downgraded to L11 Free unless I subscribe to Pro. But if I keep my L10 install, I get to use the features I have

Under the new model, upgrading is taking out a subscription - to either Premier, Pro or Max. If you do that, you will get any additional features made available in those while retaining the features you currently own.

If you don't take out a subscription then you will continue to own the features you currently have and continue to get updates to the software engine as is currently the case.

Does that mean there is no plan in the fall to provide a traditional purchase option for Logos 11? Some sort of subscription is the only option for Logos 11 features?

Frank Sauer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1309203#Comment_1309203

Does that mean there is no plan in the fall to provide a traditional purchase option for Logos 11? Some sort of subscription is the only option for Logos 11 features?

As of this time, Logos seems to feel forcing you to subscribe for two years, even if you do not want subscription benefits and only want the purchasable features is their equivalent for a traditional purchase option.... Even though, we have no idea what we will actually have as features we get to keep as part of the subscription "Fallback License".... Then, they aren't even sure what we may or may not get for Fallback eligible features over the two years you have to pay for to keep the unknown fallback features.....

Maybe BetMGM is part of the investment group - place your two year cost bet and see if you win anything of value.....

I have had a couple conversations that seem to hint that the only way the traditional option has any chance of being resurrected is if the subscription model is not as successful as they hope....

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1309206#Comment_1309206

Maybe BetMGM is part of the investment group - place your two year cost bet and see if you win anything of value.....

I have had a couple conversations that seem to hint that the only way the traditional option has any chance of being resurrected is if the subscription model is not as successful as they hope....

Oh, I'm sure it'll be successful. Students and the top tier. Then, begin converting more seminaries to package subscriptions. The pastors can tag along with 'Pro'.

But regarding BetMGM, I seemed to have purchased all the L10 features. At least now there's none I don't own. The experience flashed by over maybe 2 minutes. I'm sure the L11 features will be similar.

Frank Sauer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1309207#Comment_1309207

Maybe BetMGM is part of the investment group - place your two year cost bet and see if you win anything of value.....

I have had a couple conversations that seem to hint that the only way the traditional option has any chance of being resurrected is if the subscription model is not as successful as they hope....

Oh, I'm sure it'll be successful. Students and the top tier. Then, begin converting more seminaries to package subscriptions. The pastors can tag along with 'Pro'.

But regarding BetMGM, I seemed to have purchased all the L10 features. At least now there's none I don't own. The experience flashed by over maybe 2 minutes. I'm sure the L11 features will be similar.

I will admit that I get a little more than you may from the L10 full feature set, but have little confidence that L11 has anything close that you will be able to own... I'm torn between Logos just slow rolling the release of what is going to be considered Fallback eligible and what is not or if they are taking so long because they are embarrassed that it is currently instant light dark mode because all the emphasis is on AI related projects thus far - oh and they don't know what they will be able to offer in two years..... Still believe that there should be some form of refund/prorated refund for customers that pay for two years and look at what they get to keep with complete regret because it is not worth the cost.... Doubt it would be offered, because they and the supporters would argue that you received the benefits of all the AI stuff - even if you don't want or use it.... Notice when asked what if we don't care about the extra books that you don't get to keep, or the AI features - it was ignored and never responded to, other than you won't receive the subscription benefits - even though it was clearly stated that wasn't cared about - we only want to pay for features that we could own after two years.....

They can say you won't be forced into a subscription, but it is EXACTLY what their goal is....

Steven MacDonald

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1309211#Comment_1309211

Maybe BetMGM is part of the investment group - place your two year cost bet and see if you win anything of value.....

I have had a couple conversations that seem to hint that the only way the traditional option has any chance of being resurrected is if the subscription model is not as successful as they hope....

Oh, I'm sure it'll be successful. Students and the top tier. Then, begin converting more seminaries to package subscriptions. The pastors can tag along with 'Pro'.

But regarding BetMGM, I seemed to have purchased all the L10 features. At least now there's none I don't own. The experience flashed by over maybe 2 minutes. I'm sure the L11 features will be similar.

I will admit that I get a little more than you may from the L10 full feature set, but have little confidence that L11 has anything close that you will be able to own... I'm torn between Logos just slow rolling the release of what is going to be considered Fallback eligible and what is not or if they are taking so long because they are embarrassed that it is currently instant light dark mode because all the emphasis is on AI related projects thus far - oh and they don't know what they will be able to offer in two years..... Still believe that there should be some form of refund/prorated refund for customers that pay for two years and look at what they get to keep with complete regret because it is not worth the cost.... Doubt it would be offered, because they and the supporters would argue that you received the benefits of all the AI stuff - even if you don't want or use it.... Notice when asked what if we don't care about the extra books that you don't get to keep, or the AI features - it was ignored and never responded to, other than you won't receive the subscription benefits - even though it was clearly stated that wasn't cared about - we only want to pay for features that we could own after two years.....

They can say you won't be forced into a subscription, but it is EXACTLY what their goal is....

Frank,

Hopefully we will be pleasantly surprised at the end of 2 years. We definitely need to keep providing feedback and be respectfully vocal when needed. After all, without the vocal faction, we would not even have a fallback option. I do have some concern that the desktop features may be minimal as the are not the focus and it's not just AI being excluded from the fallback license. For instance, is the newly designed Help section going to be excluded. That would definitely be a poor choice on their part.

I've been in he IT field too long and am pretty good at reading playbooks. I believe that we who have purchased the features already are still in the majority and honestly don't see a whole new wave of customer coming onboard as a result of their model change. That still gives us leverage whether they like it or not. If, at the end of two years, all I see is fluff, then I can simply take my Logos 10 Full Features and any new ones and opt out. I'm in for the 2 years but I definitely expect something at the end of the two years.

They are obviously focused heavily on their subscription model and if they try to do things like force people to be subscribed just to buy packages, that will definitely backfire. I still hope the numbers show them over time that they need to keep the permanent license option and offer it as a standalone alternative option as well as something that can be part of a subscription. Time will tell. Meanwhile, let's keep watching and providing feedback to help guide them.

Jeff Rodrigues

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1309211#Comment_1309211

Maybe BetMGM is part of the investment group - place your two year cost bet and see if you win anything of value.....

I have had a couple conversations that seem to hint that the only way the traditional option has any chance of being resurrected is if the subscription model is not as successful as they hope....

Oh, I'm sure it'll be successful. Students and the top tier. Then, begin converting more seminaries to package subscriptions. The pastors can tag along with 'Pro'.

But regarding BetMGM, I seemed to have purchased all the L10 features. At least now there's none I don't own. The experience flashed by over maybe 2 minutes. I'm sure the L11 features will be similar.

I will admit that I get a little more than you may from the L10 full feature set, but have little confidence that L11 has anything close that you will be able to own... I'm torn between Logos just slow rolling the release of what is going to be considered Fallback eligible and what is not or if they are taking so long because they are embarrassed that it is currently instant light dark mode because all the emphasis is on AI related projects thus far - oh and they don't know what they will be able to offer in two years..... Still believe that there should be some form of refund/prorated refund for customers that pay for two years and look at what they get to keep with complete regret because it is not worth the cost.... Doubt it would be offered, because they and the supporters would argue that you received the benefits of all the AI stuff - even if you don't want or use it.... Notice when asked what if we don't care about the extra books that you don't get to keep, or the AI features - it was ignored and never responded to, other than you won't receive the subscription benefits - even though it was clearly stated that wasn't cared about - we only want to pay for features that we could own after two years.....

They can say you won't be forced into a subscription, but it is EXACTLY what their goal is....

To add to the discussion, in addition to the matter of paying for 2 years of a subscription upfront for keepable features, features of which I don't know upfront that I'll get (reason alone that prevents me from subscribing because I don't want both A.I. stuff and rented books), I also cannot rule out the possibility that the subscription cost would gradually increase due to publishers eventually wanting more money for the resources they make available to rent as part of subscriptions. It has happened over the years in the cable industry (cable subscription costs increasing due to networks wanting more money), and although this is a different market, I can't rule out the same thing happening here because of publishers renting their resources to customers within subscriptions (publishers make money from this). That would resort in higher subscription costs over a period of time for what I wouldn't use.

It's all one big bundle. Either you get all of it or you get none of it, and I don't like it one bit.

Brother Mark

Someone help a brother out please... I'm too old, and brain damaged (five strokes, and counting) to decipher whether I'll retain what I have right now or lose some/all functionality after Faithlife transitions to the new business model. Someone? Anyone? Thanks in advance

Aaron Hamilton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1309548#Comment_1309548

Someone help a brother out please... I'm too old, and brain damaged (five strokes, and counting) to decipher whether I'll retain what I have right now or lose some/all functionality after Faithlife transitions to the new business model. Someone? Anyone? Thanks in advance

You won't lose anything that you purchased. You can rest at ease.

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1309550#Comment_1309550

I'm too old, and brain damaged (five strokes, and counting)

You can rest at ease.

But not just yet.[;)]

Berechiah

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1309578#Comment_1309578

Do you get to keep the books also after the end of the 2 years?

Mattillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1309596#Comment_1309596

This is great and larger than I imagined. I hope a cleaned up version can be put on the website in the future for people deciding between the 3. It would also be nice to know what came in the L10 Full Feature Set with some type of note on there. I only subscribed to Pro but I feel like I had some of the items that were in Max from the FFS. I could be wrong though.

Mattillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1309602#Comment_1309602

I'm excited for Bible Study Builder as well... I hope that comes out soon!

Roy

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1309596#Comment_1309596

Do you get to keep the books also after the end of the 2 years?

If you mean the books which are specifically part of the subscription, as of right now, unless you have actually purchased those prior to the end of your subscription, then no. We have been told that those books are not part of the fall-back license. Only features are so covered.

Daniel Wurzberg

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1309076#Comment_1309076

OK, thank you.

Yes, I think I purchased Starter/Elementals and Preaching later on. My only concern was if there is L11 engine, which if you upgrade to, you start with starter by default and then by subscriptions you gain additional features. But if I keep what I have, than I have enough already.

Daniel Wurzberg

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1309596#Comment_1309596

I believe so. Tho, I think It's better to buy legacy libraries, and get most of those books for a better price.

I find this whole situation funny a bit, as I never thought that I "need" full feature upgrade. But now that I might get a better discount for the sub model, I might cash out and buy the "old L100 full feature" so that I can pay less for the new in subscription. lol

Bill Anderson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1308942#Comment_1308942

This may be a stupid question, but are all these features brand new or are there features listed that are in the Logos 10 full feature set? If there is overlap, for those of us that have the Logos 10 feature set it would be helpful if that was keyed somehow.

I've now highlighted new features in blue. Everything that's part of early access or in beta is listed, and at least one feature which hasn't been announced before but should be coming fairly soon. There are some other things we're also building that aren't in the list at all yet.

Mark, thank you for this!

Mike Childs

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1309207#Comment_1309207

Oh, I'm sure it'll be successful. Students and the top tier.

I not at all sure the subscription plan will be successful. But I admit I am capable of being wrong about that.

Students? From my student days, it would be extremely difficult to afford subscriptions. The "subscriptions" for rent, food, utilities, & tuition would make adding a Logos subscription impractical. And what % of Logos users are "top tier" now?

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1310767#Comment_1310767

Students? From my student days, it would be extremely difficult to afford subscriptions. The "subscriptions" for rent, food, utilities, & tuition would make adding a Logos subscription impractical. And what % of Logos users are "top tier" now?

Oh, not at the exorbitant rate. Rather, big blocks of discounts per school. Similar to the academic discounts that students can't re-sell.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1310767#Comment_1310767

The "subscriptions" for rent, food, utilities, & tuition would make adding a Logos subscription impractical

Things have changed in that many textbooks are rented rather than purchased now. At my undergraduate alma mater students frequently both purchase and rent textbooks - using electronic versions in the classroom and physical copies to study from.

Ralph Wood

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1309604#Comment_1309604

Mark Barnes said today in the “What’s New” webinar that the Bible Study Builder will be released with the next 6-week release…which should be mid-October. Really looking forward to it.

Zach Barkman

Still no update to the chart that includes a column for what resources will be included in the Legacy Fallback License?