Martyn

I tried using Logos to summarize but it did not do it. J Louis Martyn History and Theology of the Fourth Gospel. How can I use Logos Bible Software to determine the correct basis of my study on John's Gospel?

1. The aposynagōgos passages narrate formal expulsions of Christians from the synagogue.
2. Prior to 70 ce, there were no mechanisms for formally expelling anyone from the synagogue.
3. Such mechanisms did exist in the immediate post-70 era, namely the Rabbinic prayer known as the Birkat ha-Minim
4. In the post-70 era, the Rabbis used the Birkat ha-Minim to expel at least some members of the Johannine community from at least one synagogue.
5. The aposynagōgos passages narrate such expulsions allegorically.
6. Consequently, John’s Gospel is a two-level drama, which upon one level narrates the life of Jesus, and upon the other the life of the Johannine community

Can I use Logos to determine who is on the other side of Martyn in this debate? I tried ChatGPT, Bard and Google Scholar. These sources could not determine anything helpful for me in my research. I may not have read widely enough.

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Justin Gatlin

I am not sure why Logos would not summarize for you. It summarized the second chapter for me as expected. I opened the book, opened the AI panel, selected the second chapter and hit summarize.

[quote]The text discusses the dramatic interaction between the synagogue and the Johannine church, focusing on the exclusion of individuals who confess Jesus as the Messiah. It explores the formal agreement reached by Jewish authorities, possibly the Jamnia Academy, to excommunicate Jewish believers in Jesus. The text delves into the historical context of the Benediction Against Heretics, a prayer formulated to detect and separate Christian Jews from the synagogue. It suggests that the Fourth Gospel references this Benediction, with John 9:22 alluding to the agreement made, John 12:42 mentioning the Pharisees enforcing it, and John 16:2 describing the excommunication process. The text highlights the significance of this separation in solidifying Jewish orthodoxy and eliminating heretical elements. It also examines the role of synagogue officials in detecting heretics through the recitation of the Benediction. Overall, the text presents a detailed analysis of the historical and theological implications of the exclusion of Christian Jews from the synagogue, shedding light on the complex dynamics between Judaism and the early Christian community in the first century.

The summary of the chapter on his influence is also helpful, and my skim of that chapter shows several promising leads for your study.

I did a books search for "Louis Martyn" so I did not miss a result if his name or first initial were used, and restricted it to type:journal. One of my top results was Edward W. Klink III, “Expulsion from the Synagogue?: Rethinking a Johannine Anachronism,” Tyndale Bulletin 59, no. 1 (2008): 99. The synopsis of that article suggests it will be a good starting place for you.

[quote]

The ‘expulsion from the synagogue’ in John 9 has been dominated for nearly four decades by reconstructed ‘glimpses’ popularized in the two-level reading of the Fourth Gospel by J. Louis Martyn. The key insight Martyn provided the last generation of students of John is the anachronism in 9:22, an insight that although it has been criticized at the level of historical reconstruction (the official edict of the Jamnia Academy and the Birkat-ha-Minim), has dominated nearly every reading of the gospel. But Martyn has guided us to an exaggerated reading of the ‘expulsion from the synagogue’ passages, and his focus on the situation behind John has minimized the Gospel’s explicit interest in the past. Even the term ἀποσυνάγωγος, the key evidence for Martyn, reflects a historicity that has been too easily suppressed. This paper will argue that a fresh examination of the historical reflections in the ‘expulsion of the synagogue’ passage in John 9 reveals not only John’s theological interest in the past, but also some potential ‘glimpses’ on the life and ministry of the historical Jesus.

Changing my search to "Louis Martyn" NEAR (against OR contra) also yielded several journal articles, including two book reviews of books that challenge Martyn

Savior of the World: A Theology of the Universal Gospel. By Carlos Raúl Sosa Siliezar. Waco, TX: Baylor University Press, 2019, xiv + 240 pp., $39.95.

The Sheep of the Fold: The Audience and Origin of the Gospel of John. By Edward W. Klink III. SNTSMS 141. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2007, xvi + 316 pp., $101.00.

Klink's book was published the year before his article and is an adaptation of his doctoral thesis, so the article should give you a sense of whether or not you want to pursue the book.

xnman

I tried using Logos to summarize but it did not do it. J Louis Martyn History and Theology of the Fourth Gospel. How can I use Logos Bible Software to determine the correct basis of my study on John's Gospel?

1. The aposynagōgos passages narrate formal expulsions of Christians from the synagogue.
2. Prior to 70 ce, there were no mechanisms for formally expelling anyone from the synagogue.
3. Such mechanisms did exist in the immediate post-70 era, namely the Rabbinic prayer known as the Birkat ha-Minim
4. In the post-70 era, the Rabbis used the Birkat ha-Minim to expel at least some members of the Johannine community from at least one synagogue.
5. The aposynagōgos passages narrate such expulsions allegorically.
6. Consequently, John’s Gospel is a two-level drama, which upon one level narrates the life of Jesus, and upon the other the life of the Johannine community

Can I use Logos to determine who is on the other side of Martyn in this debate? I tried ChatGPT, Bard and Google Scholar. These sources could not determine anything helpful for me in my research. I may not have read widely enough.

I may be misunderstanding but 1Corinthians was written about 55 AD and 2Corinthians was written about 60 AD. In 1Corinthians 5, Paul talks about kicking a man out of the church. Check it out.

Roy

2. Prior to 70 ce, there were no mechanisms for formally expelling anyone from the synagogue.

[quote]

John 9:20–22 (NIV84)
20 “We know he is our son,” the parents answered, “and we know he was born blind. 21 But how he can see now, or who opened his eyes, we don’t know. Ask him. He is of age; he will speak for himself.” 22 His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jews, for already the Jews had decided that anyone who acknowledged that Jesus was the Christ would be put out of the synagogue.

Are you sure about this assertion?

Christian Alexander

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1312042#Comment_1312042

Some commentaries claim that John 9 is a metaphorical passage. So I am not sure.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1312110#Comment_1312110

Some commentaries claim that John 9 is a metaphorical passage.

Matthew 10:16-18
Luke 6:22
John 12:42-43

All of these imply that being expelled from the synagogue was a common concept - as to the degree that it happened, I don't know.

Christian Alexander

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1312161#Comment_1312161

Thanks for these passages. Are there any passages in the Synoptic Gospels that say the same thing?

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1312341#Comment_1312341

Are there any passages in the Synoptic Gospels that say the same thing?

Matthew and Luke are synoptics so I'm not sure what you are asking

Christian Alexander

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1312345#Comment_1312345

I am looking to find if snyagogue expulsion was found in any other part of the New Testament books.