Why do Logos Reader Editions take so long
I can understand Research Editions may take time to develop, but why do Reader Editions, which "forgo the robust treatment given to reference works" take so long despite the claim that "this drastically speeds up production". (Quotes from Logos.)
By way of example I ordered this Reader Edition 3 years ago next month.
https://www.logos.com/product/214603/jonah-beyond-the-tale-of-a-whale
My biggest worry with the pre-pub program is too many books releasing at the same time and having to cancel books I want. But the reality often is books that are "in production" seemingly sitting there for ever. And most books I have pre-ordered are by popular authors in popular series and not obscure by any means.
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Paul, you have struck a sore point for many customers. Perhaps some barometer similar to the existing one for prepubs before reaching their development stage would be somewhat insightful.Paul Caneparo said:I can understand Research Editions may take time to develop, but why do Reader Editions, which "forgo the robust treatment given to reference works" take so long despite the claim that "this drastically speeds up production". (Quotes from Logos.)
Also, an explanation of the process would be helpful.
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.2 1TB SSD
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Well, at least they're not gathering interest:
https://www.logos.com/search?query=%22Explore%3A%20For%20Your%22
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Paul Caneparo said:
why do Reader Editions, which "forgo the robust treatment given to reference works" take so long
In the one case where I actually know the reason rather than speculating on limited information, the issue slowing things down is receiving the files from the publisher - in this case a very small publisher.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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You can always be trusted to bring the humor[:)]DMB said:Well, at least they're not gathering interest:
https://www.logos.com/search?query=%22Explore%3A%20For%20Your%22
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.2 1TB SSD
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Paul Caneparo said:
why do Reader Editions, which "forgo the robust treatment given to reference works" take so long despite the claim that "this drastically speeds up production".
This is a great question and very logical. We should think they would be like the big A does with how the publisher sets the release date and time. This has been a haggle for a long time. We should never speculate timing though because it is all in Logos' hands.
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Christian Alexander said:
We should never speculate timing though because it is all in Logos' hands.
I agree, but Logos' own words suggest it should be a quick process. I've lost count of the number of Logos Reader Edition prepubs which I've ended up buying as Kindle books because the book has been out for so long, that I've ended up buying it in a sale for a dollar or two. Neither good for the author, publisher nor Logos.
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Paul Caneparo said:
I agree, but Logos' own words suggest it should be a quick process.
Do you know when it went into production?
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JT (alabama24) said:Paul Caneparo said:
I agree, but Logos' own words suggest it should be a quick process.
Do you know when it went into production?
I quoted this book merely as a representative example. However, I believe this book was "in production" when originally ordered 3 years ago.
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Paul Caneparo said:
I believe this book was "in production" when originally ordered 3 years ago.
I think that is unlikely. It was likely "gathering interest."
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JT (alabama24) said:Paul Caneparo said:
I believe this book was "in production" when originally ordered 3 years ago.
I think that is unlikely. It was likely "gathering interest."
I monitor my prepubs daily so I don't get any nasty surprises and it has been "in production" for as long as I can remember. However, I gave that one book as an example purely because it's only one of two Reader Editions that I haven't cancelled recently. The remaining Reader Editions I have now bought elsewhere due to waiting too long. All my remaining prepubs are commentaries which will be Research Editions.
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Rather than argue whether an isolated example is indicative of a wider problem can we agree that an improved tracking system is desired and insight into the process would be welcome.JT (alabama24) said:Paul Caneparo said:I believe this book was "in production" when originally ordered 3 years ago.
I think that is unlikely. It was likely "gathering interest."
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.2 1TB SSD
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Beloved Amodeo said:
Rather than argue whether an isolated example is indicative of a wider problem can we agree that an improved tracking system is desired and insight into the process would be welcome.JT (alabama24) said:Paul Caneparo said:I believe this book was "in production" when originally ordered 3 years ago.
I think that is unlikely. It was likely "gathering interest."
Yes. The example was purely to illustrate a wider point. There's no clarity in terms of timescales and the process seems to take far too long on Reader Editions, despite the claimed speedy process for these.
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The specific example I gave is now being released in 2 weeks. Perhaps I should have posted in a month or two, as I now have $90 of books releasing this month - compared to my target monthly spend of $30, which I rarely achieve. Thank you to Logos if someone took notice of the example I gave.
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4 of the R. C. Sproul Crucial Questions series have been "In Production" since at least 2 January 2020 - before we knew about Covid!
Admitedly, they are to be research editions, but more than 4 years is a loooooong time.
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Paul Caneparo said:
Thank you to Logos if someone took notice of the example I gave.
Or enough people pre-ordered it following your post [:)]
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Steve Adams said:
4 of the R. C. Sproul Crucial Questions series have been "In Production" since at least 2 January 2020 - before we knew about Covid!
Admitedly, they are to be research editions, but more than 4 years is a loooooong time.
Yes.... I finally gave up on waiting and had to remove them to be able to remove my payment method from Logos.com
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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Manuel R. said:Paul Caneparo said:
Thank you to Logos if someone took notice of the example I gave.
Or enough people pre-ordered it following your post
Possibly, although it had supposedly been "in production" for a long time - I believe years.
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Steve Adams said:
4 of the R. C. Sproul Crucial Questions series have been "In Production" since at least 2 January 2020 - before we knew about Covid!
Admitedly, they are to be research editions, but more than 4 years is a loooooong time.
And now this book is merely "gathering interest". I had already pre-ordered, so I suspect it was previously "in production" like the ones you referred to.
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Paul Caneparo said:
this book is merely "gathering interest". I had already pre-ordered, so I suspect it was previously "in production" like the ones you referred to.
Must have been (I pre-ordered it over 5 years ago) - it simply doesn't make sense to have this "gather interest" since it's a free book.
Have joy in the Lord!
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NB.Mick said:Paul Caneparo said:
this book is merely "gathering interest". I had already pre-ordered, so I suspect it was previously "in production" like the ones you referred to.
Must have been (I pre-ordered it over 5 years ago) - it simply doesn't make sense to have this "gather interest" since it's a free book.
I pre-ordered it in 2023.
If sign-up is slow, L has a reason to put off producing it.
If sign-up is slower than slow, it is effectively cancelled. It could be pulled off the board permanently, if people do not sign up.
This back to maybe move does not sit well with me.
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In my perfect world, FaithLife would focus on applying artificial intelligence internally to speed up this process, rather than rushing to offer AI-based end user features. I would be much more comfortable with using AI to tag resources than I am with using it to help write a sermon or paper.
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EastTN said:
FaithLife would focus on applying artificial intelligence internally to speed up this process,
I believe they do use AI for this purpose. But the technology behind the new fad AI chatbots is not the same technology that is best for AI assignment of tags. I agree they should put more effort into AI assignment of tags so that the Journal/Lecture/Letter/Sermon tags can be complete as well as upgrade to other tagging.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
But the technology behind the new fad AI chatbots is not the same technology that is best for AI assignment of tags.
That's a fair point, and feeds into my concern. Improving the assignment of tags seems well within the scope of current technology - and would address a long-standing user pain point. The new technology that firms are rushing to adopt is much less mature, and how it can best be applied to Bible study is much less clear.
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I ordered this book on June 15th 2023.
It's only planned to be a Reader Edition and was available as a Faithlife eBook until it was suddenly withdrawn and put into the Logos pre-pub program. After nearly 16 months it still hasn't been released. In the meantime I've bought in Kindle for a couple of dollars when it was on sale. I had been happy to buy in Logos too, but my pre-pub orders are building up so I'm no longer inclined to keep my order. I can't understand why it's taken so long. Logos and author miss out.
The reason for the post is purely because I'd love to see Logos improve their processes so I can acquire more resources within Logos and in a timely manner.
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EastTN said:
The new technology that firms are rushing to adopt is much less mature, and how it can best be applied to Bible study is much less clear.
Actually, much of the logic of the new technology is fundamentally the same as we've had for some time. However, there have been some significant advances in the human understanding of neural networks which together with the hardware changes fueling the current push means we should be able soon to know much more clearly where and how to implement the technology. But we need the companies providing the tools to be as honest about their limitations as the researchers.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Paul Caneparo said:
I ordered this book on June 15th 2023.
It's only planned to be a Reader Edition and was available as a Faithlife eBook until it was suddenly withdrawn and put into the Logos pre-pub program. After nearly 16 months it still hasn't been released. In the meantime I've bought in Kindle
I thought "that's my story exactly!" but found that I bought the Kindle version a bit earlier in June '23. Still I would like it very much to have this in my Logos library as more as just a PrintLibrary book.
Have joy in the Lord!
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NB.Mick said:Paul Caneparo said:
I ordered this book on June 15th 2023.
It's only planned to be a Reader Edition and was available as a Faithlife eBook until it was suddenly withdrawn and put into the Logos pre-pub program. After nearly 16 months it still hasn't been released. In the meantime I've bought in Kindle
I thought "that's my story exactly!" but found that I bought the Kindle version a bit earlier in June '23. Still I would like it very much to have this in my Logos library as more as just a PrintLibrary book.
I wish Logos would offer Man and Woman, One in Christ: An Exegetical and Theological Study of Paul's Letters by the same author as it's his more extensive, detailed treatment of passages in Paul's letters. I think I'll have to buy in Kindle unfortunately though.
As a matter of interest you might like to consider the following book if you don't have it as I felt it was better than The Bible vs. Biblical Womanhood:
https://www.logos.com/product/222524/men-and-women-in-christ-fresh-light-from-the-biblical-texts
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I've just cancelled a pre-pub today for a Reader Edition that was printed in 2020, but which still hasn't been produced yet by Logos. It was on sale as a Kindle for $2.99. I'd rather have in my Logos library but for a couple of dollars I can own and not wonder when I might eventually get in Logos. It was only going to be a Reader Edition. As I've said before publisher and author presumably get a smaller royalty because I only paid $2.99 and Logos miss out.
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I also have a few books either gathering interest or pre-pub. Perhaps with the $0 ones from RC Sproul we can all order these to move them along. RC was such a gifted speaker and writer.
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