Comments on new Bible study document (which I don't expect to use)

First, I want to say that for what you are trying to do, this is a very nice implementation of an initial cut. The only thing that I found annoying was that I had to go through the context menu to open the book the question came from. Frequently, I need to see the original context to understand the intent of the question. However, if I were to use the tool, I would want some basic classification of the questions because of the volume of questions even from the few resources currently included. By basic classification I mean something like:

  • closed questions
  • open questions
  • application questions
  • doctrinal questions

Second, I want to say that given what you are trying to do here, I will consider the sermon builder to be the primary tool for building lessons with the Bible study tool as providing some additional supporting functions. Reason one for this is that I tend to use slides in the small group environment but not in the worship context i.e. the reverse of the Logos assumption. Second, I need access to commentaries to build the educational content that provides the context for the questions. Third, I need an emphasis on the theological (dogmatic) meaning of the text in addition to the understand the text/application focus supported here. Fourth, I use templates for my Bible studies which minimizes the weekly effort.

A web site that I consider as excellent in introducing people to particular pericopes is Revised Common Lectionary Commentary (anglican.org). An example of the two portions of their introduction for laity is:

comments said:

Proverbs 1:20-33

The “child” (v. 8) is advised to hear his “father’s instruction” and not to reject his “mother’s teaching”. He is warned: “if sinners entice you, do not consent. If they say, ‘Come with us ... let us wantonly ambush the innocent’” (v. 11), i.e. cause trouble for the good for no reason, the sinners do not heed warnings; in fact they “kill themselves” (v. 18) and “set an ambush – for their own lives”.

Now wisdom, personified as a woman (“she”, v. 20) makes her first appearance in the book and delivers warnings of her own. She speaks in public places where she can be heard – as did the prophets Isaiah and Jeremiah – reaching ordinary people in the “street” and business people who work at the “city gates” (v. 21). She calls to the “simple” (v. 22, who don’t know better), to the “scoffers” (who take pleasure in cynicism) and to “fools” (who despise knowledge) – all of whom reject wisdom. If only they would change their ways, she would make God’s ways known to them (v. 23). But they have not (vv. 24-25), so (as they laugh at her), she will have the last laugh: at their downfall (“calamity”, v. 26), her mocking laughter will repay their obstinacy. Their downfall will be sudden and unpredictable, as is a Palestinian “storm” (v. 27) and “whirlwind”. Their call for help will come too late (v. 28). Then vv. 29-31: because they “hated knowledge” and chose not to hold God in awe, would not accept the advice of Lady Wisdom and “despised” her criticism of their ways, they will reap what they have sown: they will be punished by the very evil deeds they have committed (v. 32). On the other hand, those who heed Wisdom’s call will live in peace (“secure”, v. 33) and in comfort, “with no fear of misfortune” (Revised English Bible).

clippings said:

Proverbs 1:20-33

Verse 1: “The proverbs of Solomon”: Solomon’s name lends authority to this collection of proverbs. 1 Kings 4:29-32 says: “God gave Solomon very great wisdom ... He composed three thousand proverbs”. [ NJBC]

Verse 1: “Solomon ... David ... Israel”: A scholar has pointed out that the numerical value of the Hebrew letters in these names adds up to the number of lines in the book. [ NJBC]

Verse 12: “Sheol”: The realm of the dead is pictured as being below the earth. As Isaiah 5:14 and Habakkuk 2:5 say, “Sheol” is an insatiable mouth swallowing the dead. A premature death was considered punishment for sin. [ NJBC]

Verse 15: The two ways or paths are a fundamental theme of the book. See 2:12-22, and also Psalm 1. [ NJBC]

Verse 1915:27 says of the principle of retribution: “Those who are greedy for unjust gain make trouble for their households, but those who hate bribes will live”. See also 28:16. [ NJBC]

Verses 20-33: In the light of New Testament revelation (see Luke 11:31; John 1:1-18; Colossians 1:15-20), it is not difficult for the Christian to see here a foreshadowing of the revelation of the second person of the Trinity and the coming of the divine Logos into the world; although the authors of Proverbs never affirm the second person in God. [ JBC]

Verses 20-21: Jeremiah urged the people to proclaim God’s word: see Jeremiah 7:217:19-2019:1-2. [ NJBC]

Verse 23: “words”: Rendered as precepts in the REB.

Verses 24-27: These verses echo the prophets’ condemnation of Israel: see Isaiah 65:21266:4; Jeremiah 7:13-1524-27. [ NOAB]

Verses 26-27: Wisdom’s mocking laughter will repay the disdain of the wayward (see also Psalms 2:4 and 59:9); the refusal to hear them (see also Micah 3:4; Isaiah 1:15; Jeremiah 11:11; Hosea 5:6) will repay their stubbornness.

Verses 28-32: Recall that the rich man, in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, also waited too long before seeking help. [ JBC]

Verse 31: “eat the fruit of their way”: In Galatians 6:7, Paul warns: “Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow”. [ JBC]

Verse 33: What Wisdom offers her faithful echoes the theology of Deuteronomy 28:1-14: “If you will only obey the Lord your God, by diligently observing all his commandments that I am commanding you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations of the earth ...”. [ JBC]

No, my style and the style of Chris Haslam who produced the above are very different but he reflects something of the level of detail and the breadth of comments I aim for.

I will certainly monitor the tool as it may develop in directions of more personal interest, something as simple as choice of sources of questions would improve its usefulness. But I suspect that rather than trying to turn the Bible study document into something meeting my needs, it is better to assume that a group of us should instead concentrate on the tweaks needed to make the sermon/homily builder meet our Bible study needs. 

Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."

Comments

  • John Goodman
    John Goodman Member Posts: 1,738 ✭✭✭

    I quite appreciated the idea. My few thoughts are:

    1. Nice if it gave a suggested Title right away with the passage.
    2. Option to include the passage at the top of the document.
    3. Right click or something to delete questions.
    4. I looked at Gen 29:1-30, it would have been nice if the AI served up some more interesting questions.*
    5. Is there information I want to share with the group before going into questions - which goes to M.J's comment about the sermon document.

    * I wonder if the prompt could be improved? I've no idea what your prompt is but the AI seemed to only consider Jacob's perspective. What about Leah, what about Rachel, or Laban? Questions about complex family dynamics, doing business within the family, polygamy etc. I think questions linked to doctrine can also be helpful... are their catechism questions or credal affirmations which this passage connects with? Any Biblical Archaelogy we could be aware of?

    גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

  • Mark Barnes (Logos)
    Mark Barnes (Logos) Administrator, Logos Employee Posts: 1,992

    MJ. Smith said:

    The only thing that I found annoying was that I had to go through the context menu to open the book the question came from.

    In the questions sidebar, clicking on the section title (directly under the name of the book) should open the book to that section.

  • Mark Barnes (Logos)
    Mark Barnes (Logos) Administrator, Logos Employee Posts: 1,992

    MJ. Smith said:

    something as simple as choice of sources of questions would improve its usefulness

    The questions should come from any book in your library that is referenced by Bible passage, and which has "answer boxes" in the book. Are there books in your library that are missing, do you think?

  • Mark Barnes (Logos)
    Mark Barnes (Logos) Administrator, Logos Employee Posts: 1,992

    Nice if it gave a suggested Title right away with the passage.

    That's an interesting idea. Thanks.

    Option to include the passage at the top of the document.

    We do support automatically inserting Bible passages (type the Bible passage in the document and press Enter). But perhaps we could save you that trouble for the passage you're studying.

    Right click or something to delete questions.

    What about Leah, what about Rachel, or Laban? Questions about complex family dynamics, doing business within the family, polygamy etc. I think questions linked to doctrine can also be helpful... are their catechism questions or credal affirmations which this passage connects with? Any Biblical Archaelogy we could be aware of?

    That's helpful feedback, thanks. We try to generate a range of questions: ice-breakers, comprehension, doctrinal, practical, etc.

    AI won't give the same answers every time, but I did find that by clicking "Generate Questions" a second time, I started to get questions like these:

    • How does Rachel's struggle with barrenness connect to themes of faith and God's covenant promises?
    • What does Leah's experience teach us about God's awareness of our struggles and aspirations?
    • In what ways can we practice empathy and compassion for those who may feel overlooked, as Leah did?
    • How can we learn to navigate and resolve conflicts in our families, reflecting on the dynamics seen between Leah and Rachel?
    • How does God’s choice to bless Leah despite her circumstances reflect His mercy and grace?

    These address some of your concerns, although the questions were still rather weak on theology, if I'm honest.

    Is there information I want to share with the group before going into questions - which goes to M.J's comment about the sermon document.

    Where would you expect this to come from? From the Bible study books we're using to pull questions from? From AI? From other Logos books and datasets?

  • John Goodman
    John Goodman Member Posts: 1,738 ✭✭✭

    Is there information I want to share with the group before going into questions - which goes to M.J's comment about the sermon document.

    Where would you expect this to come from? From the Bible study books we're using to pull questions from? From AI? From other Logos books and datasets?

    I suppose I was thinking study bible level context. Relevant media. The kind of stuff that goes into the lexham research commentaries or a factbook search result. I like to include images of relevant archaeology.

    גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

  • MJ. Smith
    MJ. Smith MVP Posts: 54,735

    The questions should come from any book in your library that is referenced by Bible passage, and which has "answer boxes" in the book. Are there books in your library that are missing, do you think?

    Only a handful of my > 1100 Bible study guides appear but it is apparently a resource problem:

    1. Why doesn't Ray, Stephen K. 2 Corinthians. Catholic Scripture Study. Charlotte, NC: Catholic Scripture Study International, 2010. have a Bible index?
    2. Why doesn't Gould, Dana. 2 Corinthians. Shepherd’s Notes. Nashville, TN: Holman Reference, 1998. have input boxes?

    Do I need to report the missing indexes as BUGS? What about the input boxes?

    For passages in 2 Corinthians only about half of my Bible Study Guide resources (my own tagging based on having questions) appear. Note your criteria omits almost all discussion questions.

    Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."

  • MJ. Smith
    MJ. Smith MVP Posts: 54,735

    In the questions sidebar, clicking on the section title (directly under the name of the book) should open the book to that section.

    You're right. I didn't think to try that because I was assuming the information I was looking for would be prior to the section title. My bad. [:$]

    Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."

  • Kyle G. Anderson
    Kyle G. Anderson Member, Logos Employee Posts: 2,236

    MJ. Smith said:

    Only a handful of my > 1100 Bible study guides appear but it is apparently a resource problem:

    1. Why doesn't Ray, Stephen K. 2 Corinthians. Catholic Scripture Study. Charlotte, NC: Catholic Scripture Study International, 2010. have a Bible index?
    2. Why doesn't Gould, Dana. 2 Corinthians. Shepherd’s Notes. Nashville, TN: Holman Reference, 1998. have input boxes?

    Do I need to report the missing indexes as BUGS? What about the input boxes?

    For passages in 2 Corinthians only about half of my Bible Study Guide resources (my own tagging based on having questions) appear. Note your criteria omits almost all discussion questions.

    Please do report these as bugs. Both series were already in the process of being updated but it's good to know if we missed any others.

  • MJ. Smith
    MJ. Smith MVP Posts: 54,735

    Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."