Need help utilizing Logos to solve a seemingly contradiction
I am trying to figure out how to dig deeper than the Logos "bible word study" to the sense of the word to better understand the word "hate" in the two contradictory verses below.
Jesus said in Luke 14:26 for us to "hate" our father, mother, wife, brother etc. or else we cannot be His disciple.
John said in 1 John 3:15 that whoever "hates" his brother is a murderer and doesn't have eternal life.
When I right click on the word hate in both passages, click on "bible word study" then drill down to the "sense" of the word, I get miseo for both words. Meaning truly to hate.
I have always been taught that Luke 14:26 is a "lesser love" but how do I prove this by using Logos and the word meanings in the original language? (I cant read greek)
Thank You!
JT
Luke 14:26 (NKJV)26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
1 John 3:15 (NKJV)15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
Comments
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JT Lawler said:
I have always been taught that Luke 14:26 is a "lesser love" but how do I prove this by using Logos and the word meanings in the original language? (I cant read greek)
Careful! Do not set out to "prove" your own thoughts by attempting to squeeze Scripture into the interpretive box you have built. The hard truth is that the original word for "hate" means, as Logos has correctly identified, "hate". People naturally find this hard to swallow, so the interpretive games begin. Priorities likely have a lot to do with what Jesus is getting at. We should hate anything that we are tempted to prioritize above Him. Not "love less," but hate. That's how important it is to love God above all else.
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JT Lawler said:
I have always been taught that Luke 14:26 is a "lesser love" but how do I prove this by using Logos and the word meanings in the original language? (I cant read greek)
Careful! Do not set out to "prove" your own thoughts by attempting to squeeze Scripture into the interpretive box you have built. The hard truth is that the original word for "hate" means, as Logos has correctly identified, "hate". People naturally find this hard to swallow, so the interpretive games begin. Priorities likely have a lot to do with what Jesus is getting at. We should hate anything that we are tempted to prioritize above Him. Not "love less," but hate. That's how important it is to love God above all else.
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Than You Sir. No interpretive boxes built here. There are questions though. Just trying to get a deeper understanding for a bible study.
I thought that there might be two different meanings in these two words in these two passages that I am missing. Or incorrectly using Logos to identify them.
I understand Luke 14:26 and accept that loving God above all else is the most important commandment and priority. Love it.
What I don't understand is how this same hate in 1 John 3:15 now means that we are a murderer at heart
Luke 14:26 - Yes, hate. My love for my brother should seem like hate in comparison with my love for God
1 John 3:15 - Don't hate. If you exercise this same hate you are considered a murderer at heart.
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Context, context, context. Words do not exist in isolation. In the parable before, things people loved were keeping them from the banquet. Think idolatry. Hate idolatry. I'm honestly not trying to answer your questions. Rather, trying to provoke thoughts.
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I ran a smart search synopsis. Hope it helps guide you in the right direction. The footnotes did not copy very sell providing you sources of the synopsis.
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JT Lawler said:
... What I don't understand is how this same hate in 1 John 3:15 now means that we are a murderer at heart
Luke 14:26 - Yes, hate. My love for my brother should seem like hate in comparison with my love for God
1 John 3:15 - Don't hate. If you exercise this same hate you are considered a murderer at heart.
For one, you have used features and lexicons etc available in your Logos installation to check on the individual words "hate" and you found what information these resources provided.
Next, since the difficulty remained, would be using Logos to read and study the context of these passages, e.g. reading the whole passage in Bible / Bibles to learn what the context may add to better understand the statements in those verses. (this was mentioned already by Aaron in a reply above)
Also, using the context menu (the popup window when you right click with the mouse on the word "hate" may have further helpful information from other resources in your Logos library or tools which you then can work through.
I hope this helps ...
Wolfgang Schneider
(BibelCenter)
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JT Lawler said:
understand the word "hate" in the two contradictory verses below.
Don't fall into the translation trap. miseo means miseo not hate. hate is a gloss for miseo, a decision for translators that the meaning of miseo has enough overlap with the meaning of hate, for hate to often be the appropriate translation. In the information panel is a translation section that shows how your various translations actually translate it in the same context. Look at both the Bible Word Study and the Information panel to find as many examples of differences in translation as you can find, then dig for the what is common among the words selected to try to understand how much miseo overlaps hate, and how much miseo and hate do not overlap in meaning.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Thank You Sir!
You guys are so smart....
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MJ. Smith said:
Don't fall into the translation trap. miseo means miseo not hate.
Thanks for the reminder. miseo is a word that no doubt would provide for a fascinating study. Your words remind me that translated words often don't overlap 100%. Even if hate in this context would be the most fitting English word, this does not mean that it fits entirely.
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Sorry my screen shot did not show on the above:
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Wolfgang Schneider said:
Also, using the context menu (the popup window when you right click with the mouse on the word "hate" may have further helpful information from other resources in your Logos library or tools which you then can work through.
In this case, checking the section mentioning figures of speech tagged in the context menu may be helpful (see screenshot)
In particular, the mention referring to Hyperbole, Exaggeration from E.W. Bullinger's Figures of Speech Used in the Bible may prove helpful.Wolfgang Schneider
(BibelCenter)
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Thank You Very Much Gentlemen! Your insights are much appreciated, every one of you.
This one had stumped me a bit on the surface. I knew deep down that it wasn't a contradiction, just couldn't find what I was looking for.
You guys opened me up to resources in Logo's that I had never used before, Thank You!
JT
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Aaron Hamilton said:
Careful! Do not set out to "prove" your own thoughts by attempting to squeeze Scripture into the interpretive box you have built. The hard truth is that the original word for "hate" means, as Logos has correctly identified, "hate". People naturally find this hard to swallow, so the interpretive games begin. Priorities likely have a lot to do with what Jesus is getting at. We should hate anything that we are tempted to prioritize above Him. Not "love less," but hate. That's how important it is to love God above all else.
Great answer. Although, it's an assumption, the authors are on the same page. A problem quickly encountered by the church fathers.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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DMB said:
Great answer. Although, it's an assumption, the authors are on the same page. A problem quickly encountered by the church fathers.
True. Assumptions are fascinating. It's amazing how much of higher education in many fields deals with the problem of assumption. So many of the strategies and ideas that people support rise and fall based on assumption.
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