I notice on the reviews below the product page that some found issues with this set of maps: https://www.logos.com/product/232870/manna-bible-maps?queryId=7ccd2faf9cf80856f4fdc89288d65cc6
They are missing movies/videos and map descriptions. Did those ever get included or fixed?
DAL
I just bought it and there are no videos. If there are supposed to be detailed descriptions, those are also missing. It just has titles.They are nice, simple, Sunday School style maps. I think the sale price is fair, but I would not pay full price for them. I sometimes think the Carta maps are too detailed to print out for a class and the Logos maps are too 90s for me to look at without flinching.
That description is straitght from the webpage and I believe has been incorrectly applied to the Logos product. To get all of their content including the movies it is at a much higher price than the Logos product. This is an area were Faithlife leave themselves open to fair criticism. This appears to be a Logos edition, not an ebook and no care has been take. In ensure the pro description matches the product being sold. Even if were an eBook I believe they still haver a responsibility to ensure what they say they are selling is actually what they are selling.
https://biblemaps.com/
This is an area were Faithlife leave themselves open to fair criticism. https://biblemaps.com/
This is an area were Faithlife leave themselves open to fair criticism.
I agree! When we complain about the format of a resource they tell us they made it look like the original resource so they couldn’t reformat it to be used in an easier way in Logos…BUT when they’re not consistent, like with these maps, they either don’t say anything or the publisher didn’t allow it card is played. Then why sell a resource at a high price that lacks content and usability like the original?
Anyway, for the price I guess I’ll find some use for the maps, but I would definitely not pay full price for them.
I just wanted to suggest going for the Harvest Handbook of Bible Lands instead, which has quite awesome maps.
However, I just noticed my mistake. It's the Harvest Handbook of Bible Prophecy that's on sale this month. That one doesn't have maps...
Maybe just wait for the other Harvest Handbook to go on sale again. Or even wait for the second edition, which is long overdue...
I just wanted to suggest going for the Harvest Handbook of Bible Lands instead, which has quite awesome maps. However, I just noticed my mistake. It's the Harvest Handbook of Bible Prophecy that's on sale this month. That one doesn't have maps... Maybe just wait for the other Harvest Handbook to go on sale again. Or even wait for the second edition, which is long overdue...
Thanks! I have them both 👍
I made an error. The pricing on Manna Maps is a sale price and at regular Logos price this resource should include the videos and any other bless and whistles. But my error doesn’t change the fact Faithlife has a disconnect between the product delivered and the product described.
I'm confused by this. I haven't heard of Logos sales fundamentally changing the product that is being sold. If the sale only includes part of the resource, then it should be differentiated from the full resource. One should still be able to purchase the movies, etc. separate from the portion of the resource that is for sale.
I have the original maps from Manna both in the iOS app and downloaded. One of the great values that came with these maps is descriptions, definitions and scripture references which aren't included in the Logos version. It is a real shame but my criticism fell on deaf ears I guess.
I wasn't a fan of the maps in the Bible Lands book but maybe I missed something. I remember them being ugly IMO. I'm glad you love them though!
Deleted due to formatting error
Here is one example from one map, which we should be getting, but we are not. This is From the city of Antioch. Excuse the formatting as I’m copy pasting from my phone——Antioch ANTIOCH (SYRIA): (Modern Antakiya) Founded by Seleucus Nicator about 300 B.C., the city of Antioch was situated on the Orontes River in western Syria. Seleucus was one of the generals of Alexander the Great who gained control of the area of Syria upon Alexander's death. Seleucus named the city after his father, Antiochus (although his son was also named Antiochus). When Rome gained control of Syria, Antioch became the capital city of the province. At that time, it was the 3rd largest city of the Roman Empire. Antioch was to be sacked twice by the Persians and seriously damaged by earthquakes. Upon the arrival of Christianity, the church in Antioch demonstrated its strength by sending out missionaries. It was in Antioch that the disciples were first called Christians (Acts 11:26). Many fled to Antioch after the persecution began at the death of Stephen (Acts 11:19). The church in Jerusalem sent Barnabas to Antioch to help spread the gospel (Acts 11:22-26).Agora: The philosopher Aristotle recommended that a city should have two Agoras, one for merchandise and a "free agora" for political and educational activities. This agora was the free agora of Antioch. It was built by Antiochus IV Epiphanius.Amphitheater: The amphitheater was originally built by Julius Caesar on the slopes of Mt. Silpius for gladiatorial combats. It was rebuilt by Valens (364 - 378 A.D.) for combats against animals.Aqueduct: Antiochus IV Epiphanes constructed an aqueduct to carry water from the winter torrent Parmenius. The aqueduct was designed by the Roman architect Cossutius. Later, an aqueduct was constructed by Julius Caesar for people living on the upper slopes of Mt. Silpius. In 114 A.D. Trajan ordered an aqueduct built from the suburb of Daphne. This aqueduct was completed by Hadrian who also built reservoirs at Daphne.Cherubim Gate: After Titus defeated Judea, he traveled through Antioch. The citizens asked him to expel the Jews from Antioch. Titus refused. However, in order to appease the people, he presented to them bronze cherubim which he had taken from the temple in Jerusalem. (These cherubim may have been imitations.) These were set up outside the city gate which then came to be called the Cherubim Gate. When the southern wall of the city was improved and extended by Theodosius the Younger (c. 440 A.D.), the gate was replaced by a new entryway called the Daphne Gate.Cilicia: Cilicia was in the southeast area of Asia Minor on the Mediterranean Sea. It lay between the sea and the Taurus Mountains. Tarsus was its capital. At one time it was part of the Hittite Empire. The apostle Paul was from this area and traveled through there on his journeys (Acts 15:41).Circus: Hippodrome. In 67 B.C., Q. Marcius Rex, the Roman governor of Cilicia, visited the Roman client king Philip II at Antioch. To demonstrate Roman support for Philip, he arranged for a circus and a palace to be built. The hippodrome was damaged by an earthquake but was repaired by Agrippa. In fact, the emperor Trajan was injured by an earthquake while visiting Antioch in 114 A.D. and spent the rest of his stay there living in the open at the circus.Cyprus: An island in the eastern end of the Great Sea (Mediterranean), Cyprus was also called Cethima (Chittim ) (Ezek. 27:6) according to Jewish historian Flavius Josephus (antiq. i, VI, 1). It is not referred to as Cyprus in the Old Testament. Barnabas was from here (Acts 4:36) and Paul visited here (Acts 13:4).Daphne Gate: At thge request of Empress Eudocia of Rome, Theodosius II (408 - 450 A.D.) extended the city wall and built a new Daphne Gate which was guilded and came to be called the Golden Gate. When the Persians conquered the city in June, 540 A.D., the Romans retreated through this gate.Eastern Gate: The Eastern Gate was built during the time of Tiberias. On the top of the gate stood a statue of the she-wolf nursing Romulus and Remus, the legendary founders of Rome. The gate stood at the east end of a long colonnaded street. During the reign of Domitian (81 - 96 A.D.), the philosopher Apollonius of Tyana visited Antioch and placed a talisman for protection against the north wind at the Eastern Gate.Epiphania: This section of the city was built by Antiochus IV in order to accomodate the growing population of Antioch. He named the new section of the city after himself, Antiochus Epiphanes (175 - 163 B.C.). The Hellenistic roadway which originally ran alongside the city now bisected the city.Fort: Seleucus built a citadel atop Mt. Silpius (c. 300 B.C.). Unfortunately, the mountain was steep on the side of the city and sloped gently on the east side, thus armies could approach the city and gain control of the fort which then dominated the city. The Persians did this twice, in 253 and 540 A.D.Forum: When Valentinian became emperor (364 - 478 A.D.), he divided his empire with his brother Valens, who reigned over Syria. Valens demolished a basilica called the Kaisarion built by Julius Caesar in order to build a new forum, or marketplace.Great Sea: (Mediterranean) A salt-water sea covering almost one million square miles, the Great Sea was at the center of early developments in Egypt, Palestine, Greece, and Rome. Sea traders such as the Phoenicians established colonies as far as northern Africa and Spain. During the height of the Roman Empire, the ROmans called it "Mare Nostrum" ("our sea").Iron Gate: This gate was built by the Emperor Justinian to control runoff water from the winter torrent Parmenius. The gate was located where a ravine bisected Mt. Silpius.Mt. Silpius: This mountain stands 1,540 ft (506 m) on the eastern side of Antioch. Seleucus Nicator founded the city of Antioch on the level area between this mountain and the Orontes River.Mt. Stauris: A peak at 1314 ft (431 m) at the nothern end of Mt. Silpius. On May 29, 526 A.D., an earthquake destroyed Antioch while the city was crowded for the festival of Ascension Day. Contempory accounts say 250,000 were killed. According to legend, on the Sunday following the disaster, a vision of the Holy Cross appeared above the northern part of the city. Therefore, the northern part of Mt. Silpius, where the vision was seen, was renamed Mt. Stauris ("cross").Orontes River: This river in Syria begins in the Lebanon and Anti-Lebanon mountains. It flows northward through the Beqa Velley, then changes course and flows southwesterly past Antioch to the Great Sea (Mediterranean). During ancient times, the Orontes was navigable up to the city of Antioch.Palace: In 67 B.C., the Roman governor of Cilicia, Q. Marcius Rex, visited the Roman client king, Philip II, at Antioch. He authorized the building of a palace on an island in the Orontes River opposite Antioch. The palace was modeled on the plan of a Roman fortified camp. The palace was rebuilt by Emperor Diocletian (c. 298 A.D.). The palace had a second-story portico overlooking the river. The entrance to the palace was called the Tetraplyon of the Elephants. An earthquake in 458 A.D. destroyed most of the palace.Street of Herod and Tiberias: This was the main street in Antioch running nearly 2 Roman miles (9,728 ft, 3190 m) from the Eastern Gate to the Daphne Gate. According to Josephus, Herod the Great paved the street with marble, and Emperor Tiberias built porticoes one either side of the street supported by 3,200 columns. Tiberias also erected tetrapyla (ornamental, vaulted stone roofs supported on four columns) at each intersection. The street was 31 ft (10 m) wide and the porticoes on each side were 32 ft (10.5 m) wide.Syria: Area north and northeast of Palestine, Syria was inhabited since earliest times. It is first mentioned in the book of Judges (Judg. 10:6). The capital at Damascus (Isa 7:8) is the oldest, continually-inhabited city on earth.Theater: Built by Julius Caesar. Caesar visited Antioch in 47 B.C. The theater was his gift to the people of Antioch for their support in Caesar's conflict with Pompey. The theater was enlarged by Agrippa and Augustus.Wall of Justinian: The Emperor Justinian repaired part of the walls of Antioch destroyed by an earthquake, however, since the Persians were known to be advancing on the city and the walls could not be rebuilt in time to protect the city, they were left unfinished.Wall of Seleucus: This wall was built by Seleucus Nicator, one of the generals of Alexander the Great, when he founded the city of Antioch. Wall of Tiberias: This portion of the wall was built by Emperor Tiberias.
Here is one example from one map, which we should be getting, but we are not. This is From the city of Antioch.
This information would be a very valuable addition to the resource, which does contain great maps imo.
I am not saying Logos changed the product for the sake. I am saying I didn’t pick up at first the price was a sale price. I thought initially the problem was with the description but now I realize this is a sale price the description of the product seems more likely correct and the issue is with the product missing the videos etc.
I made an error. The pricing on Manna Maps is a sale price and at regular Logos price this resource should include the videos and any other bless and whistles. But my error doesn’t change the fact Faithlife has a disconnect between the product delivered and the product described. I'm confused by this. I haven't heard of Logos sales fundamentally changing the product that is being sold. If the sale only includes part of the resource, then it should be differentiated from the full resource. One should still be able to purchase the movies, etc. separate from the portion of the resource that is for sale.
Thank you for helping me understand your comment. I misread and misunderstood what you were saying. It would be pretty sweet if Logos decided to update this resource.
At least the description should be slightly adjusted:
[Quote]
If you've ever wanted beautiful maps to bring the Bible lands alive in your classes, presentations, or sermons, your wait is over. Our maps, timelines, and movies help Bible students visualize their study of the Bible. Our collection includes over 120, full-color maps and several knowledge-rich timelines.
[/Quote]
Technically, it only promises the maps and timelines, but the marketing language for Manna at the beginning is confusing. This minimal edit would be sufficient, I think:
If you've ever wanted beautiful maps to bring the Bible lands alive in your classes, presentations, or sermons, your wait is over. Manna is known for maps, timelines, and movies to help Bible students visualize their study of the Bible. This collection includes over 120, full-color maps and several knowledge-rich timelines.
At least the description should be slightly adjusted: [Quote] If you've ever wanted beautiful maps to bring the Bible lands alive in your classes, presentations, or sermons, your wait is over. Our maps, timelines, and movies help Bible students visualize their study of the Bible. Our collection includes over 120, full-color maps and several knowledge-rich timelines. [/Quote] Technically, it only promises the maps and timelines, but the marketing language for Manna at the beginning is confusing. This minimal edit would be sufficient, I think: [Quote] If you've ever wanted beautiful maps to bring the Bible lands alive in your classes, presentations, or sermons, your wait is over. Manna is known for maps, timelines, and movies to help Bible students visualize their study of the Bible. This collection includes over 120, full-color maps and several knowledge-rich timelines. [/Quote]
I support your correction of the product description - which as it stands now, does promise "movies". Also the title given in the product details does:
Title: Manna Bible Maps Plus: Maps, Timelines, and Movies to Help Students Visualize Their Study of the Bible
(looking at manna's website, those are a few videos of a few minutes length, and you could buy them cheaply for "a fistful of dollars") and I really think Logos should produce the videos and descriptions as part of this product. The regular price indicates it's the same content you would get if you bought the CD-ROM or download from the website (interestingly, the text descriptions are mentioned nowhere).
It's about accuracy, not looks
I support your correction of the product description - which as it stands now, does promise "movies". Also the title given in the product details does: Title: Manna Bible Maps Plus: Maps, Timelines, and Movies to Help Students Visualize Their Study of the Bible
Good eye. I missed the title in the full description, I was just looking at the top one.
I saw this being advertised by Logos on Facebook which led me to this post. Logos seems to have fixed most of the issues although the Title under Product Details is still incorrect. Given that their list price is the same as Manna Bible Maps which includes everything there is still a disconnect between what Logos is offering and what is included in the original product. Therefore, I didn't buy it even at the sale price.
And just like that, this item is no longer on sale. Why not? It's the only monthly add-on to be removed as far as I am aware
There is a problem with the resource that needs to be sorted out. The responsible thing is for Logos to remove it from sale till the work out what it is, that they are actually selling and ensuriing the description and their reported none-sale price are in line so they are not misleading customer. Over the years there has been rare occasions when an item has been removed from sale due to a problem or error of some kind. Too rare for me to remember the exact details.
