Legacy Fallback License Clarification

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319904#Comment_1319904

New customers must get on the most discounted subscription track to acquire the LFL in the future. This requires the purchase of a Logos 10 feature set. Thus, as long as Logos 10 feature sets are offered for sale, it will be possible for new customers to acquire the LFL. There will be three different licenses, associated with the three different subscription levels.

To acquire the LFL at the Premium level, one must purchase the bronze feature set.

To acquire the LFL at the Pro level, one must purchase the silver feature set.

To acquire the LFL at the Max level, one must purchase the full feature set.

David Wanat

I see I misinterpreted the information out there. I thought everyone had to subscribe for two years to get the LFL.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319906#Comment_1319906

I see I misinterpreted the information out there. I thought everyone had to subscribe for two years to get the LFL.

Yes, after purchasing a Logos 10 feature set and getting on the discounted subscription track, it has been communicated that one must remain subscribed for two consecutive years in order to acquire the LFL.

David Wanat

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319908#Comment_1319908

I see I misinterpreted the information out there. I thought everyone had to subscribe for two years to get the LFL.

Yes, after purchasing a Logos 10 feature set and getting on the discounted subscription track, it has been communicated that one must remain subscribed for two consecutive years in order to acquire the LFL.

I see. I originally understood the system and misinterpreted your comment. 😬 My bad.

Rick Ausdahl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319904#Comment_1319904

New customers must get on the most discounted subscription track to acquire the LFL in the future. This requires the purchase of a Logos 10 feature set. Thus, as long as Logos 10 feature sets are offered for sale, it will be possible for new customers to acquire the LFL. There will be three different licenses, associated with the three different subscription levels.

To acquire the LFL at the Premium level, one must purchase the bronze feature set.

To acquire the LFL at the Pro level, one must purchase the silver feature set.

To acquire the LFL at the Max level, one must purchase the full feature set.

As is often said, "The Devil is in the details!". No offense intended to those with sensitive ears. But what I highlighted and underlined in Aaron's reply, is in my opinion, a critical detail. If I understand correctly, when Faithlife withdraws the offer to buy Logos 10 feature sets, access to an LFL will also be withdrawn--no longer available to new customers.

I keep hoping that either I'm wrong, or if right, that Faithlife will change that, and continue some path of ownership to new customers.

David Wanat

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319978#Comment_1319978

New customers must get on the most discounted subscription track to acquire the LFL in the future. This requires the purchase of a Logos 10 feature set. Thus, as long as Logos 10 feature sets are offered for sale, it will be possible for new customers to acquire the LFL. There will be three different licenses, associated with the three different subscription levels.

To acquire the LFL at the Premium level, one must purchase the bronze feature set.

To acquire the LFL at the Pro level, one must purchase the silver feature set.

To acquire the LFL at the Max level, one must purchase the full feature set.

As is often said, "The Devil is in the details!". No offense intended to those with sensitive ears. But what I highlighted and underlined in Aaron's reply, is in my opinion, a critical detail. If I understand correctly, when Faithlife withdraws the offer to buy Logos 10 feature sets, access to an LFL will also be withdrawn--no longer available to new customers.

I keep hoping that either I'm wrong, or if right, that Faithlife will change that, and continue some path of ownership to new customers.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I would think that if you bought the subscription at a set level and maintained it for two years, you'd then qualify for LFL at that level. Having the L10 features would change the subscription price for what set you had.

If that's wrong, then I guess I'm really confused about things.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319978#Comment_1319978

I keep hoping that either I'm wrong, or if right, that Faithlife will change that, and continue some path of ownership to new customers.

You're certainly not wrong, unfortunately. My hope is that Logos is taking a one-step-at-a-time, wait-and-see approach. I hope that they ultimately embrace the LFL as a long-term solution to the benefit of all customers by one means or another, rather than simply using it to ease the transition for current users to the new subscription model, which is the initial intention. Time will tell.

Rick Ausdahl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319980#Comment_1319980

New customers must get on the most discounted subscription track to acquire the LFL in the future. This requires the purchase of a Logos 10 feature set. Thus, as long as Logos 10 feature sets are offered for sale, it will be possible for new customers to acquire the LFL. There will be three different licenses, associated with the three different subscription levels.

To acquire the LFL at the Premium level, one must purchase the bronze feature set.

To acquire the LFL at the Pro level, one must purchase the silver feature set.

To acquire the LFL at the Max level, one must purchase the full feature set.

As is often said, "The Devil is in the details!". No offense intended to those with sensitive ears. But what I highlighted and underlined in Aaron's reply, is in my opinion, a critical detail. If I understand correctly, when Faithlife withdraws the offer to buy Logos 10 feature sets, access to an LFL will also be withdrawn--no longer available to new customers.

I keep hoping that either I'm wrong, or if right, that Faithlife will change that, and continue some path of ownership to new customers.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I would think that if you bought the subscription at a set level and maintained it for two years, you'd then qualify for LFL at that level. Having the L10 features would change the subscription price for what set you had.

If that's wrong, then I guess I'm really confused about things.

I hope I'm wrong and you're right. But based on everything I've read so far, it's my understanding when offers to buy L10 feature sets are gone, paths to ownership are gone.

Can someone from Faithlife please clarify.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319980#Comment_1319980

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I would think that if you bought the subscription at a set level and maintained it for two years, you'd then qualify for LFL at that level. Having the L10 features would change the subscription price for what set you had.

It's important to note that without owning a L10 feature set, you will never qualify for the LFL under the present system. The L10 feature set does qualify one for a subscription discount, but this discount is not enough to offset the price for the feature sets. If one wants to acquire the LFL, one must be careful to subscribe at the right level and purchase the L10 feature set necessary to obtain the maximum discount.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319985#Comment_1319985

hope I'm wrong and you're right. But based on everything I've read so far, it's my understanding when offers to buy L10 feature sets are gone, paths to ownership are gone.

Hopefully you're wrong (as you hoped). A 'major' frustration I have with the new subscription is that it pretty much erases my (unjustified) praise of early Logos goals ... people getting access to sophisticated OL at pretty cheap prices. I thought that was just amazing. I still do. I assume the new November Logosian is looking at $40/month (so called 'Max'). And never to be 'owned'. Though I could easily be wrong as usual.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319988#Comment_1319988

I assume the new November Logosian is looking at $40/month (so called 'Max').

Pricing information can be found here: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/225401.aspx?PageIndex=1

The new Logosian will be paying $20/month. I don't know if that's cheap or expensive tbh, but I'm content paying the discounted rate of $13.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319989#Comment_1319989

See ... I'm often wrong! I wonder where I got the $39 (rounded to $40). Two years of $20/mo (or with some free months) is quite hefty against earlier FFs.

We'll have to see if there's any squealing.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319992#Comment_1319992

I wonder where I got the $39 (rounded to $40).

Right number, wrong time. $40 used to be correct [:)]

Justin Gatlin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319992#Comment_1319992

Two years of $20/mo (or with some free months) is quite hefty against earlier FFs.

The full feature set is currently $759, without books. So if they do relent and offer a fallback license to everyone, it would be cheaper for new users than buying a traditional library was. That's fine by me (I've gotten what I agreed to) but I would expect some groaning in the forum.

I think they should change course and offer a path to a permanent license, even if it is something like unlocking the option to buy a feature set once you've been subscribed for 2 years. But we'll see if new customers actually care about permanent ownership as much as we do, especially now that the whole digital economy is subscription based.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319999#Comment_1319999

The full feature set is currently $759, without books.

Agree. But I'd not expect FL to hand over multiple years of FFs without buying the L10 and earlier. My comparison was the approximate 2-year incremental cost (that I'd paid over the years ... not all of them though).

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319992#Comment_1319992

Two years of $20/mo (or with some free months) is quite hefty against earlier FFs.

Absolutely. I would think it cool if Logos implemented some kind of loyalty discount or something to reward new customers for continuing the subscription without interruption. The only thing to keep in mind is that the $20 (Max), $15 (Pro), or $10 (Premium) subscription price is not only for features. I consider the perks to be substantial, but others might find them less significant.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1320018#Comment_1320018

. I consider the perks to be substantial, but others might find them less significant.

Well, you're right. I'm just a little .... suspicious maybe ... as to exactly what an average customer will use (or be able to use, training-wise, or purchasing-wise):

- Looking at my FF over the years, I've used them very little (though I LOVE my favorites). Two RIs that shipped a decade ago. Search syntax from 2004. The interlinears actually do my heavy-lifting, and do it well.

- The percent-offs only work routinely for the richies (for it to pay off). Or pastors with a hefty book-budget. People can only spend so much.

- The AI ... I'd bet people lock on to those, probably. Convenience is convenience.

Who knows.

Jan Krohn

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1319999#Comment_1319999

The full feature set is currently $759, without books. So if they do relent and offer a fallback license to everyone, it would be cheaper for new users than buying a traditional library was. That's fine by me (I've gotten what I agreed to) but I would expect some groaning in the forum.

The full feature set contains many cloud and AI features that won't ever be covered by the legacy license. A hypothetical legacy license without full feature set is not gonna be much fun at all.

Justin Gatlin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1320030#Comment_1320030

The full feature set is currently $759, without books. So if they do relent and offer a fallback license to everyone, it would be cheaper for new users than buying a traditional library was. That's fine by me (I've gotten what I agreed to) but I would expect some groaning in the forum.

The full feature set contains many cloud and AI features that won't ever be covered by the legacy license. A hypothetical legacy license without full feature set is not gonna be much fun at all.

I don't really think so. To me, looking at Mark's list, the only old core features not included in the LFL are the Fuzzy Bible Search, the Bible Browser, the Atlas, and the Lemma in Passage section of the passage guide. I guess it is weird that you can't add media to notes with the LFL, but I assume that is about potential storage costs. The Print Library Catalog is cool, but not exactly core to Logos functionality. https://community.logos.com/forums/t/225226.aspx

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1320049#Comment_1320049

To me, looking at Mark's list, the only old core features not included in the LFL are (...)

What immediately comes to my mind that is in FFS but not LFL is automated translation at the desktop which comes with a Max level subscription only. For many users this might be a very relevant feature, so if they want it "forever" it might be a consideration to buy a respective feature set (or a base package that includes it, in some it came with a Silver level, if I recall correct)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1320057#Comment_1320057

For me it is unclear if the Fallback only happens one, or always after 2 years.

Does any of you know this?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1320198#Comment_1320198

For me it is unclear if the Fallback only happens one, or always after 2 years.

There is still unfortunately a great deal of uncertainty surrounding the future of the Fallback License. I don't recall Logos ever firmly committing to updating the LFL. But they haven't said they wont.

Lew Worthington

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1320200#Comment_1320200

....I don't recall Logos ever firmly committing to updating the LFL. But they haven't said they wont.

It makes sense that they would like to know how the customer base will respond, and it's reasonable to expect customers with a longer history and customers with a more recent history to eventually exhibit different buying and subscribing patterns. It would be nice to know the future of LFL, but I think I understand their long-term wait-and-see approach.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1320200#Comment_1320200

For me it is unclear if the Fallback only happens one, or always after 2 years.

There is still unfortunately a great deal of uncertainty surrounding the future of the Fallback License. I don't recall Logos ever firmly committing to updating the LFL. But they haven't said they wont.

Thanks.

I guess it is also unclear if the fallback only works if we just jump in right now of if we wait some time to jump in.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1320203#Comment_1320203

As long as you can purchase L10 feature sets, you should be able to have a path to acquiring the LFL. If you hear that those feature sets will someday no longer be offered for sale, that would be the indication that it may no longer be possible in the future to get on board.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1320219#Comment_1320219

Thanks. The Germans stay behind. Maybe we have some more infos, before they start.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1320200#Comment_1320200

For me it is unclear if the Fallback only happens one, or always after 2 years.

There is still unfortunately a great deal of uncertainty surrounding the future of the Fallback License. I don't recall Logos ever firmly committing to updating the LFL. But they haven't said they wont.

Hello Aaron

Are there more information about this out now?

Thanks

Fabian

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1323879#Comment_1323879

Some of what I communicated in this thread appears to be outdated. Official information can be found here: https://www.logos.com/subscription-faq (there is a section on the Legacy Fallback License). However, we have not been given further clarification about the future of the LFL. It's still two years out, and I have a feeling they want to analyze a lot of the data between now and then before committing to a decision. We'll have to be patient; the wait might be long.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1323883#Comment_1323883

Some of what I communicated in this thread appears to be outdated. Official information can be found here: https://www.logos.com/subscription-faq (there is a section on the Legacy Fallback License). However, we have not been given further clarification about the future of the LFL. It's still two years out, and I have a feeling they want to analyze a lot of the data between now and then before committing to a decision. We'll have to be patient; the wait might be long.

Thanks.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1323883#Comment_1323883

Some of what I communicated in this thread appears to be outdated. Official information can be found here: https://www.logos.com/subscription-faq (there is a section on the Legacy Fallback License). However, we have not been given further clarification about the future of the LFL. It's still two years out, and I have a feeling they want to analyze a lot of the data between now and then before committing to a decision. We'll have to be patient; the wait might be long.

I'm struggling a bit with this. The FAQ seems to focus on what's excluded from the Legacy Fallback License, rather than what's included. I'm sure that FaithLife staff are familiar enough with the new offerings that it's obvious to them what's included, but it isn't obvious to me. I'm fine with losing the cloud-based AI tools (which seem to be most of what's being excluded), but they seem to be most of what's being promoted about the new subscriptions.

It would be very helpful to me to see a chart of what they know is going to be included in the Legacy Fallback License, even if it's not exhaustive. If the answer is "we don't know because we haven't decided yet," then that's going to significantly reduce the appeal of the fallback license.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1323885#Comment_1323885

The FAQ seems to focus on what's excluded from the Legacy Fallback License, rather than what's included.

Because there are fewer things excluded than included. All features that are not explicitly excluded will be included.

Perhaps you will find this chart interesting: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1IOXGusuGt5_78fmO3q-GZtXOQrZgT6ampdaWkbBtS-k/pubhtml?pli=1 (Taken from this link:https://community.logos.com/forums/p/224437/1308962.aspx#1308962 )

You could specifically mark all excluded features within the chart. The remaining ones will be incorporated into the LFL.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1323885#Comment_1323885

My pinky finger says: Users with an older license only have one time the Legacy Fall Back License and then we fall in the group of new users without the ability to get any fallback license again.

May only if all cancel then the subscription after receiving the Legacy Fallback License they will do otherwise and bring the Fallback License back as a permanent system.

In my opinion it would be fair to new users too. If they also earn a Fallback License after every 24 months. This would match the claims they made: The subscription gives you access to new features if they are out instead of waiting 24 month to purchase the new features. I mean the old system was then permanent. So should the new one too. except you pay in forefront and get instant access to it if they are finished for release.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1323893#Comment_1323893

Perhaps you will find this chart interesting: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1IOXGusuGt5_78fmO3q-GZtXOQrZgT6ampdaWkbBtS-k/pubhtml?pli=1 (Taken from this link:https://community.logos.com/forums/p/224437/1308962.aspx#1308962 )

Thank you, Aaron. I'll take a look.

Adam Sudduth

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1323905#Comment_1323905

LFL will likely not be as big of a deal for L10FFS people. Very few new features are non-AI based. So they don't want to tell you that currently there are no NEW features in the LFL. It would bring down the enthusiasm for that to be a part of it after 2 years.

There will be a few minor exceptions, like live dark mode or something like that. Where most don't mind restarting the app if they want to change. I personally have not gone back from dark mode once i went to it.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1323912#Comment_1323912

LFL will likely not be as big of a deal for L10FFS people.

That's my impression as well. So far, I'm not seeing anything compelling.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1323916#Comment_1323916

This thread is also interesting: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/225226.aspx?PageIndex=1

Specifically, these two comments are relevant to the discussion:

In a quick comparison from the Subscription Configuration Doc posted by Mark, these appear to be the New Features (only those after the L10 FFS) one would gain with a Fallback License at this time. Mark please correct any error(s):

Premium Subscribers

Dynamic Toolbar

Dynamic Themes

Factbook Passage Study Features

Insights Sidebar

Related Books on Mobile

Related Passages Cards on Mobile

Bible Study Builder

Bible Study Builder Questions Dataset

Get Started Video Card

Pro Subscribers (Features Listed for Premium plus)

TBD

Max Subscribers (Features Listed for Premium and Pro plus)

TBD

I think that's correct on desktop, as things stand now (i.e., up until v37). On mobile, we've just released Sermon Builder and Sermon Manager for Android to beta, and those aren't on the exclusion list.

But there are likely to be another 17 releases between now and legacy fallback being issued, so who knows what else will be added to LFL between now and then.