LOGOS/MARK A RESPONSE IS NEEDED Copyright concerns regarding Bible study builder
The new Bible Study Builder makes use of copyright material from numerous Bible study books. In responsible use, this would fall within fair use guidelines. However, if a user were to take all the questions from a particular resource and do so for several weeks, this would probably be far outside fair use. Therefore, I would be more comfortable using the tool if appropriate credit/copyright information was included. From what I have seen in the forums, I am uncomfortable assuming everyone knows and follows copyright law.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Comments
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Thanks for bring this up, as it has it been on my mind from since when Mark gave a sneak peek of the feature in the August webinar.
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MJ. Smith said:
I would be more comfortable using the tool if appropriate credit/copyright information was included. From what I have seen in the forums, I am uncomfortable assuming everyone knows and follows copyright law.
Agree [Y][Y][Y]
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Bump.
This is a serious concern of mine as well.
Without proper citation of sources....- It easily leads to a lack of perceived integrity for those using the tool
- It can be confusing for those creating material and trying not to plagiarize.
- It could lead to copyright holders being less willing to work with Logos in the future.
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MJ. Smith said:
In responsible use, this would fall within fair use guidelines. However, if a user were to take all the questions from a particular resource and do so for several weeks, this would probably be far outside fair use. Therefore, I would be more comfortable using the tool if appropriate credit/copyright information was included.
I strongly agree that it should include full citation information for everything. I'm assuming that by "copyright information" you mean who holds the copyright for each of the sources cited. I don't think it would be appropriate for the tool to make a judgment regarding whether or not the resulting Bible study falls within the scope of fair use or not. I'd also hope that any blanket disclaimer be very carefully written.
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Thanks for the feedback. There are many different ways of using Bible Study Builder. Like Print/Export (or even copy to clipboard), there are ways of using the tool that respect copyright and ways that don't. We'll consider the best way of tackling this.
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
there are ways of using the tool that respect copyright and ways that don't. We'll consider the best way of tackling this.
We come from different worlds - I can't imagine cutting a line of code for this feature without running it through lawyers - my public sector mindset.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Dru Lattin said:
Without proper citation of sources....
- It easily leads to a lack of perceived integrity for those using the tool
- It can be confusing for those creating material and trying not to plagiarize.
- It could lead to copyright holders being less willing to work with Logos in the future.
I completely agree that the source of each question needs to be part of the Bible Study document.
A copyright violation could easily occur if a writer uses BSB to help create study questions at the end of chapters in a book.
When questions are added to the Bible Study, there should be a citation of the source of the question. The citation would appear on hovering over a question or with a small hyperinked footnote number after the question. This could be in a footnote when the Bible Study is printed or exported. The user ought to be able to delete this, if they end up significantly modifying the question.
I include a brief note of the source of an idea or a question when I am preparing Bible studies and teaching plans for my own use in church. Sometimes other people use these lesson plans in the church in a future year. In addition, someday I may modify my lessons for something I publish and I want to be able to give proper attribution at that time.
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
there are ways of using the tool that respect copyright and ways that don't.
But you fail to give us even the most basic way of respecting the copyright. I truly detest Logos providing a tool that, in effect, encourages the abuse of copyright by failing to provide the most basic safeguard. If I were an author of affected works, I would seriously consider suing for Logos' own good - I would be in-state state court and therefore relatively cheap to defend while still forcing Logos to address a serious issue.
Not saying that Chat GPT is a reliable source for legal advice but:
ChatGPT said:In copying Bible study questions, there are two primary legal concerns: copyright infringement and fair use.
1. **Copyright Infringement**: Copyright law protects original works of authorship, including study guides, as long as the questions are creative enough to demonstrate originality. Merely buying a study guide does not grant the right to reproduce its content beyond personal use. Copying questions verbatim or in a closely derivative form into another work risks infringement if those questions exhibit originality.
2. **Determining Common Domain Content**: If a question is generic or formulated in a way that lacks originality—e.g., “Who was Moses?” or “What is the first commandment?”—it may not qualify for copyright protection because it is considered a “fact” or an “idea,” which are not protected. However, if the question has a unique phrasing, additional interpretive guidance, or a thematic spin, it’s likely protected as an expression of an idea rather than the idea itself.
3. **Fair Use**: Under certain circumstances, copying questions could fall under fair use if done for purposes like commentary, criticism, or education. However, fair use depends on several factors, including the purpose, amount copied, and potential impact on the study guide’s market value. If these factors favor the original work, a fair-use defense may not apply.
In summary:
- Directly copying questions from a purchased guide is generally prohibited unless they are generic.
- You can use factual or widely known content but avoid reproducing unique or interpretive elements.
- Rephrasing questions and adding original content is safer than directly copying.Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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ChatGPT said:
In copying Bible study questions, there are two primary legal concerns: copyright infringement and fair use.
It is a sad day when a ChatBot has better insight into fair use of copyrighted materials than a publisher of Christian books and Bible study resources.
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what are the sources CHATGPT got this information from. 😊MJ. Smith said:Mark Barnes (Logos) said:there are ways of using the tool that respect copyright and ways that don't.
But you fail to give us even the most basic way of respecting the copyright. I truly detest Logos providing a tool that, in effect, encourages the abuse of copyright by failing to provide the most basic safeguard. If I were an author of affected works, I would seriously consider suing for Logos' own good - I would be in-state state court and therefore relatively cheap to defend while still forcing Logos to address a serious issue.
Not saying that Chat GPT is a reliable source for legal advice but:
ChatGPT said:In copying Bible study questions, there are two primary legal concerns: copyright infringement and fair use.
1. **Copyright Infringement**: Copyright law protects original works of authorship, including study guides, as long as the questions are creative enough to demonstrate originality. Merely buying a study guide does not grant the right to reproduce its content beyond personal use. Copying questions verbatim or in a closely derivative form into another work risks infringement if those questions exhibit originality.
2. **Determining Common Domain Content**: If a question is generic or formulated in a way that lacks originality—e.g., “Who was Moses?” or “What is the first commandment?”—it may not qualify for copyright protection because it is considered a “fact” or an “idea,” which are not protected. However, if the question has a unique phrasing, additional interpretive guidance, or a thematic spin, it’s likely protected as an expression of an idea rather than the idea itself.
3. **Fair Use**: Under certain circumstances, copying questions could fall under fair use if done for purposes like commentary, criticism, or education. However, fair use depends on several factors, including the purpose, amount copied, and potential impact on the study guide’s market value. If these factors favor the original work, a fair-use defense may not apply.
In summary:
- Directly copying questions from a purchased guide is generally prohibited unless they are generic.
- You can use factual or widely known content but avoid reproducing unique or interpretive elements.
- Rephrasing questions and adding original content is safer than directly copying.0 -
John Fidel said:
what are the sources CHATGPT got this information from. 😊
A librarian friend got called out for a missing footnote on a sentence on the basis of the Thai calendar - a sentence that sounded as if it were "common knowledge." Her rule of thumb was that if she wasn't sure something was common knowledge, she needed to find it in 5 resources that didn't footnote it. She hadn't checked this particular fact. After getting a Thai librarian to check for her in Thai resources, she & the publisher updated future edition with credit and paid a small fee to the person owning the copyright. Moral: be careful when writing a book about world-wide calendars targeting teachers. Which is a long way of saying ChatGPT would probably claim common knowledge which is what I used to evaluate the AI answer before using it. [8-|] I rarely use ChatGPT because it is less concerned with footnoting sources than Perplexity ... but it happened to be open so ...
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I was being humorous as well.
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Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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As an added benefit, one could give credit to the original authors of the question when used in a class setting as well. I actually inadvertently created the impression that the questions were mine in a Study I did, it would have been nice if the citation was under the question (or at least the book where the question came from).
I forgot who the OP was at this point, but great idea.0
