Help me not RETURN my Logos Platinum 4 - TERRIBLE download/design experience so far.
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The main point here being that we are ignorant...ignorant of a lot of background on these issues.
We don't have the statistical data on tech support calls, disgruntaled users, happy users, nor any of the overview that Logos has...so we tend to view the issue from our own "forumite" perspective...if we are a bit disappointed...we notice that there are a lot of other posts that are similar....so we get the "yellow volkswagen" syndrome..
And even after all that we continue to act like we have a well rounded picture of things... [:$]
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Jonathan Burke said:Andy Bell said:
The fact that some still report 20 minute+ wait times when phoning for support suggests that the Logos support team is still handling more support calls than they can manage which, after 7 months(?) of Logos4 being available is a bit concerning...
I doubt that those calls are all from people who have owned Logos 4 for 7 months. The majority of them are most likely to be new or recent users.
Indeed, and that's part of the point I was trying to make - the issues may not have gone away so new customers may be running into similar problems to those that existed at the start.
Then again, managing customer expectation (or failing to do so) is a major factor in customer satisfaction. Being told upfront in unequivocal terms that buying package X will result in a download of Y gb followed by an index lasting several hours would possibly increase customer satisfaction.I'm not saying this info is not available but it should be very conspicuous so that the customer realises that buying today will, probably, not result in using the software today...
And I know I've said this before and will probably say it many more times - giving the customer the ability to control the download of resources, to limit the first download to the user's choice of 'favourites' for example, would help someone get up and running quickly. The less used resources can then be downloaded over night and the never used resources are never downloaded. (I have made this suggestion ('pre-hide' resources) on the user voice pages) and I think it would make a big difference...
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Andy Bell said:Jonathan Burke said:Andy Bell said:
The fact that some still report 20 minute+ wait times when phoning for support suggests that the Logos support team is still handling more support calls than they can manage which, after 7 months(?) of Logos4 being available is a bit concerning...
I doubt that those calls are all from people who have owned Logos 4 for 7 months. The majority of them are most likely to be new or recent users.
Indeed, and that's part of the point I was trying to make - the issues may not have gone away so new customers may be running into similar problems to those that existed at the start.
Then again, managing customer expectation (or failing to do so) is a major factor in customer satisfaction. Being told upfront in unequivocal terms that buying package X will result in a download of Y gb followed by an index lasting several hours would possibly increase customer satisfaction.I'm not saying this info is not available but it should be very conspicuous so that the customer realises that buying today will, probably, not result in using the software today...
Managing customer expectation would probably take care of a large percentage of the calls and dissatisfaction, but what troubles me more is that there still remain serious problems that some number of users are running into where they cannot even succesfully install. That should almost never happen on brand new software, unless the user hasn't got the computer specs that are required for the product or there is something faulty with their hard disk or something. That there are workarounds (if one calls Customer Service) is hardly consolation. If a person spends a couple hundred dollars (minimum) on some software, it should work right out of the box, and the installation process should be relatively easy and mostly hands-off, even if it involves a lot of waiting.
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Rosie Perera said:
Managing customer expectation would probably take care of a large percentage of the calls and dissatisfaction, but what troubles me more is that there still remain serious problems that some number of users are running into where they cannot even succesfully install. That should almost never happen on brand new software, unless the user hasn't got the computer specs that are required for the product or there is something faulty with their hard disk or something. That there are workarounds (if one calls Customer Service) is hardly consolation. If a person spends a couple hundred dollars (minimum) on some software, it should work right out of the box, and the installation process should be relatively easy and mostly hands-off, even if it involves a lot of waiting.
I couldn't agree more - the actual installation should be a breeze. I've never had as much trouble installing a program as I did with Logos 4 and, as an IT professional, I install a lot of software.
As Logos provides many gb of resources, the large download is inevitable. However, a plain vanilla base package install (with no other resources involved) could provide a pre-built index, with a quick check post download to check that this index matches the installed resources. And there ought to be a way of adding extra resources to the index without needing a total reindex (although such functionality may exist?)
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Andy Bell said:
Indeed, and that's part of the point I was trying to make - the issues may not have gone away so new customers may be running into similar problems to those that existed at the start.
I was thinking more about the fact that new users of any software typically have a learning curve to go through as they become accustomed to the product. From the many threads I've seen on this forum, the most common issues new users have are a result of unfamiliarity with the product rather than issues with the software. I had the same experience myself. Hardware issues are also not uncommon on this forum. I don't think it's about still outstanding problems with the actual software.
Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"
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I had no problem installing Logos4, except the shock of seeing I had about 7 gigs to download, so 4 days to wait before I could use it! It did refuse to open at one stage, but customer support mailed me how to sort that one out. At the moment it's being very slow loading my 2 layouts: Reading, with lots of books open in separate tabs in one window, and Bible study, with 2 windows and various tabs. They take a minute or 2 to open sometimes. It sometimes announces that Logos 4 has stopped responding, but that's a lie - it's just like my dog - takes its time to decide to obey!
I keep discovering exciting new features of Logos 4. Were I in America I should probably try to get to a camp, but I'm not, so choose to manage without.
Incidentally, Moe, what about putting your Logos 4 manuals into Logos format to save us foreigners the expense of postage. I'd probably buy them if I could download them!
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I just re-installed L4 from scratch after a format.
it was a breeze. i worked on my laptop while it downloaded all of the resources that I accidentally zapped...
That took about 6 hours...then It indexed for about 3 hours...I was still able to use my laptop....
all is well...
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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In about 10 installs that I can count of Logos 4, I have not had any problems
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
I am having my very first experience of indexing taking more than just a few hours (4 or thereabouts on my laptop). It ran overnight last night and by this morning still said it had 64 hours left (earlier yesterday it had said it was "only" 19 hours or something). I'm in transit in airports today and running on battery a lot, so I've had to pause it to avoid draining my battery. I don't know why it's taking so long this time. Nothing else has changed with my installation other than updating to 4.0d Beta 1.
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Rosie Perera said:
Nothing else has changed with my installation other than updating to 4.0d Beta 1.
The full index 4.0d Beta performed on my desktop was a little quicker than under 4.0c. You should get a better idea what is happening from the logos4Indexer.log.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Andy Bell said:
As Logos provides many gb of resources, the large download is inevitable. However, a plain vanilla base package install (with no other resources involved) could provide a pre-built index, with a quick check post download to check that this index matches the installed resources. And there ought to be a way of adding extra resources to the index without needing a total reindex (although such functionality may exist?)
A second (supplemental) index is created for new and updated resources, so indexing for those resources takes minutes instead of hours. When it grows to a certain size a full re-index will be performed.
A pre-built downloadable index has some merit for a base library product to a new user provided one has the download budget and line speed! It could even be provided via DVD if Logos issues them in conjunction with a new version of L4. It could cater for a few variables (eg. some existing resources) but there is no guarantee that a service release or resource update will not require a full re-index. The re-introduction of Merge in the 4.0d beta looks promising and will greatly reduce the need for a full re-index as mentioned in the first paragraph. But with promised "missing" features still to be released I doubt that this feature will be considered before the 4th quarter.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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