Is it possible to remove the Passion Translation from the Logos Resource Library?

Clark Seely · 2024-12-01T19:40:56+00:00

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Hi…long time user and love the Logos product family. Is it possible to remove the Passion Translation from the Logos Resource Library so that its false teaching, false witness, and false proclamation won't be perpetuated? I would respectfully request that for the sake of God's Word and what it means to humanity, that Logos remove any product based on the Passion Translation. I'm sure that you all know that it is not the Bible, is not a translation of manuscripts, and is, because of its human development by Brian Simmons, very appealing to 'itchy ears' and deceiving to all those who use it. I believe that most folks who use it don't realize the dangers and don't know that they are, in fact, not reading God's Word. Thank you for considering this question. Blessings to all of you at Logos and the Logos family. Respectfully, Clark Seely

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Jan Krohn

Disagree. Like other false teachings, it's required for academic purposes.

Frank Sauer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1346699#Comment_1346699

That would be my view as well

MJ. Smith

In general, your theology does not belong on Logos. Please read the guidelines. Theological judgment is needed but it doesn't belong here. What you want to do is to hide the book. For instructions on how to hide the book, enter "hide book" without the quote marks in the Help Center Search box. Or see https://support.verbum.com/hc/en-us/articles/360018533172-Hide-Books#h_01GRA1J7EMVVRF3JRSTXTRXPSS

As for your request to remove the Passion translation for everyone else, read https://www.logos.com/distribution-philosophy for the official policy.

DMB

I just got it. Quite an interesting volume. It's like the Text is interwoven with background best-guesses. If you're familiar with the scholarly proposals, you can see the reasoning.

Very similar to Targums. Something just a bit short of Pseudo-Jonathan.

Carmen Gauvin-O'Donnell

I agree with the others. Yes, it does appear to represent some bad translation. No, I don't care because I know what I believe and why I believe it, so this is useful to me for research. It's the same reason I want Mormon and other religious writings in Logos… so that I can use its powerful interface to help me make a case for Christ as the only "Be All and End All" of existence. 😎👍️

DAL

There’s a difference between false teaching and your own theological perspective. Many would probably call you or me heretics for what we believe, but they still have to research to learn that. Your request is not a valid request. If you don’t like the resource hide it, which I’m sure that as a LONG time user you’ll be able to do just fine.

DAL

Where is the thumbs down button when you need one 😂😂😂😂 Ah here it is: 👎👎

Jan Krohn

Here's some background information on the TPT by translator Brian Simmons.

Brian Simmons - Sid Roth – It’s Supernatural! | sidroth.org

I'm not going to comment here on what he said. Just that the most insightful part of the interview starts at minute 30.

DMB

Well, I've played around with PT and it is quite interesting. First, the OP is correct … it's not a translation per se. Meaning, there's a book in french, someone translated it to english, and you're almost reading what the author wrote. Instead, their FAQ tries to place it in the tradition of Luther's German translation (the meaning); I'd assume that's pretty arguable.

But it IS a great … I'd call it a commentary almost. As earlier, if you already know the scholarly arguments, background material, DSS, Aramaic, and Greek/Roman, they're woven in to create 'meaning' (whatever that is). I've already put it in my Text Comparisons for english Bibles … mainly to be reminded of details, details, details.

As an example, in Mat 1:1 the greek uses 'byblos', which tends to be associated with papyri, and NIDNTTE with a roll of papyri (Egyptian origen and uncommon usage). PT uses 'scroll' … most translations use 'book', 'record' or 'account'. Each arguable, especially depending on your view of Matthew authorship and location.

A more 'sensitive' example most forumites know: John 1:2 where PT is "They were together—face-to-face, in the very beginning". The italics is inserted explanation (similar to Amplified). But the interesting part is the missing 'theos' in english (combined into a pronoun; hmm). And more interesting, the 'face-to-face' comment … which appears to be coming from the aramaic/syriac side of the house.

John Fidel

DMB,

Thanks for the brief well thought out review.

Steven Biggs

I agree entirely with the original viewpoint regarding the PTP and its 'theology.' The translator inserts his own interpretations in several places and clearly adds to God's Word. Additionally, he has mentioned in numerous interviews that he received direct 'downloads' from God to assist him. Furthermore, the PTP is named after the angel who supposedly appeared to him and instructed him to work on this' translation.' This is concerning because it sounds very similar to Joseph Smith's experience with the angel Moroni and the golden plates he claimed to have used to create the LDS Bible, which is obviously blasphemous.

However, having said that I own a copy of the TPT on logos and have used it in some of my writings to clearly demonstrate side by side where he is in error. How can we follow the Scripture's guidance to refute false teaching if we don't educate ourselves on what that false teaching is?

We should not run from or hide false teachings but confront them head-on with the true Word of God.

MJ. Smith

Do we have any forumites who can speak from the New Apostolic Reformation perspective?

From Wikipedia:

The

New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) is a theological belief and controversial movement that combines elements of Pentecostalism, evangelicalism and the Seven Mountain Mandate to advocate for spiritual warfare to bring about Christian dominion over all aspects of society, and end or weaken the separation of church and state. NAR leaders often call themselves apostles and prophets. The movement was founded by and is heavily associated with C. Peter Wagner. Long a fringe movement of the American Christian right, it has been characterized as "one of the most important shifts in Christianity in modern times." The NAR's prominence and power have increased since the 2016 election of Donald Trump as US president. Theology professor André Gagné, author of a 2024 book on the movement, has characterized it as "inherently political" and said it threatens to "subvert democracy." American Republican politicians such as Mike Johnson, Doug Mastriano, Marjorie Taylor Greene, and Lauren Boebert and activists such as Charlie Kirk have aligned with it. Some groups within the broader Apostolic-Prophetic movement have distanced themselves from the NAR due to various criticism and controversies.

It is my understanding that this is the context of the Passion translation and the context in which the translator expects to be received and judged. It appears to fall into the same class of translation as The Message, The Clear Word, The Living Bible, the Cotton Patch Bible …

Jan Krohn

There is no "NAR movement". The designation "NAR" is by itself controversial and unhelpful.

Dr. Michael Brown has some good insights, for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfmkX1pdLq8

That Wikipedia article is heavily biased, and another example why Wikipedia can be a questionable source.

MJ. Smith

@Jan Krohn

There is no "NAR movement". The designation "NAR" is by itself controversial and unhelpful.

Thanks for the link. I took away a slightly different message than you but acknowledge your reason for concern. Going further than that would exceed the forum guidelines.

Jeremy Gunter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1347366#Comment_1347366

Just so you know, the "LDS Bible" is the King James Bible. If you want to have conversations with Latter-day Saints about what they believe and why they need to adopt your theology, you should be aware of that.

As far whether or not books should be censored because people don't believe the same things, I agree with you entirely "How can we follow the Scripture's guidance to refute false teaching if we don't educate ourselves on what that false teaching is?" Just as I am not afraid of the "Passion Translation", I am not afraid of the Talmud, the Quran, the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, the Guru Granth Sahib, the Avesta, the Bhagavad Gita, the Tripitaka, the Tao Te Ching, the Kojiki, or the Popol Vuh, and neither should anyone else be. Inasmuch as they teach correct principles, Christians should point to those to show people of other faiths what Christianity has in common with them, so it does not feel foreign to them. And inasmuch as they teach incorrect principles or completely miss the mark, Christians should explain why Christianity has it right to help people come to an understanding of and a relationship with their Messiah Jesus.

GregW

To try to keep this within the guidelines, there is a helpful resource available within Logos which comes from an NAR-sceptic standpoint: https://www.logos.com/product/153693/a-new-apostolic-reformation-a-biblical-response-to-a-worldwide-movement?queryId=3b069cf5109120565af27098402c10fd

David Jonescue

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1347407#Comment_1347407

Brother, they have their own Systematic.