Logos and the Kindle Scribe's New Write-able Notes into the Text

DMB · 2024-12-07T22:53:04+00:00

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OK: (1) Not advertising the Scribe (I doubt any Logosian wants it), and (2) Read on; this about Logos.

The Scribe came out a while back, and it's primary target was reading, combined with journaling. There's other competitors, generally in color but more expensive. The Scribe sort of works off a customers' book library.

This last week, they introduced the ability to write directly onto a Kindle book's text (eg marginal notes, etc). Previously, you wrote into a popup, with a small note identifier in the text (similar to Logos note icons).

The latest concept is very interesting. Essentially, you're writing (cursive, but later typing?) into graphics boxes that are re-sizable … the Kindle text wraps around them dynamically, and they anchor to the text-point. I been 'writing' now, and I really like seeing my notes, right along with the author's points. In my own Bible software, I can pair my notes to Bible verse anchors (sorted by date), though text only. In Logos, Passage Guides can pair notes, though a lot of 'stuff' is included.

Over the years, many Logosians have requested writing in their digital Bibles (similar to paper copies). Thinking about it, I couldn't see a cheap, efficient way. Logos, however, is the cat's meow on highlighting, and has well-developed anchor-based objects.

Now, seeing the Scribe's approach, it's really just a short-step in Logos, from anchored VFs, to anchored text/graphics boxes with text-flow-around. Enough demand? Definitely text; not likely cursive (for Logos).

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Antony Brennan

@DMB

Some of the highlights I insert move the text around. I often use the capsule which lets me type whatever text I like and it appears on the page in the capsule . If I place it before the text it pushes the text along the line. It would seem theoretically possible for it to be longer form text instead of just some short term that I use.

Perhaps the capability is already available and just needs refining for this use case.

By the way when I @ you there seems to be two of you, or more.

DMB

Good point. And yes, the current is line-oriented (vs graphic box). But in the ballpark.

And yes, there's 4 of me. I'm #3.

Antony Brennan

@DMB

Three of Four, Is that like Seven of Nine in Star Trek

Andrew Hollingsworth

Given that on iPadOS at least, there's a handwriting API that could be dropped into the Logos mobile app for people using iPads, it would seem possible and a good feature upgrade.

DMB

Good reminder, Andrew!

Justin Gatlin

Do Scribe notes show up when you read Kindle books on other devices (like read.amazon.com) or are they Scribe exclusive?

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1349445#Comment_1349445

That, I don't know. Amazon has advertised sharing but I have mine not to.

Justin Gatlin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1349452#Comment_1349452

I was just wondering how it handles wildly different aspect ratios. Doing an annotation on one consistent screen seems easier than one that you can make on your phone and then see on your desktop, iPad, and web app.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1349458#Comment_1349458

I'd suspect you're right. On the Scribe, writing onto the text creates a re-sizable 'window' with the text flowing around it. The window itself can be adjusted, but the writing doesn't adjust to the window (meaning if the window is too small, some of ones writing isn't displayed, similar to a BMAP). So, I'd assume, absent Amazon re-doing aspects (and they're not known for the extra mile), it might explain why they point to Kindle devices; no mention of the web version.

I will say (admittedly I'm a Logos critic, if only because their horn-tooting is so abysmal), that my participation with Kindle is strictly 'books' (about a thousand, and now the Scribe). Kindle's library support is just awful, and Logos's is really great … Accordance is a step beyond Kindle but not far. Neither Kindle nor Accordance do well with big libraries.

And maybe I'm unusual, but all the things I truly love about Logos, marketing doesn't seem to appreciate!

Doc B

I'd love to see some screenshots of a Kindle text with notes, underlines, arrows, etc., in the Scribe.

How do these notes/marks work with export (i.e., Kindle's 'highlight capture to a web page' feature)?

I've been wanting a tool like this but so far, the limitations have been deal-breakers. Looks like they are closing in on the real thing.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1349550#Comment_1349550

Hopefully we're not outside the Logos camp, though I'm hoping Scribe's early features can point to Logos developments.

Regarding your question, I pulled the sample image from the Amazon/Scribe page (see below):

The boxed writing could have begun as the user writing near the text (alternatively, the user could create a box first). In any event, any writing (cursive, arrows, diagrams, etc) end up in a box as below.
The displayed underline is similar to highlighting. One can use the stylus to underline, or finger as with highlighting.

So, I don't think it's ready for your primetime (smiling). I do draw arrows within the little boxes, along with my comments and diagrams, since the box links to a text position (keeps its place, even if boxes added, earlier in the text). And I haven't exported, so no help there.

Visually, (for me) it works out to a visual conversation …. the author and me, as if in a room. I'm currently re-reading an Ehrman book … there's a big difference between the old highlighting+notes-icon, and directly writing into the text. Much slower going, as the points are considered. Not rushing along.

Doc B

Danke…that's helpful.

Yes, not quite ready for primetime (players, lol). Here's where I'd like to get (random image pulled from google)-

And I want to be able to write in Greek in the English Bible and English in a Greek text. And arrows to help construct the argument is very important to me…I should have been an archer, as much as I like arrows.

DMB

OK, Scribe got another update. Again, not advertising …. only looking at how handwriting was/is being implemented on a mass market device.

Through the years, folks mention writing notes in the margins on Logos (like Bibles). And this was the new Scribe feature. I thought margin notes would be almost impossible … how much room is there, besides maybe 2-3 words?

What Amazon did was add a slide-out panel that vertically parallels the book text next to it. Then you write your notes (which 'stay' in parallel with the text later on). They also automatically create a note icon in the text, with the note you wrote (both).

I find this solution (a) quite workable from a programming perspective; it's basically an extension of the written note images tied to textual position but captured vertically. And (b) it's pretty intuitive; I clicked the icon and saw the game plan.

Watching the Scribe vs Logos development, it's becoming more clear the direction the two are going (in terms of textual book use). One is personal, dealing with text … drawings, diagrams, hand-writing, arrows and so forth. An intimate discussion. The other is a colder descriptive world (seems) … even the note presentation is 'official-ish'.

I wonder if psychologically, FL would add journaling to Logos. That would illustrate the difference in direction. I'd bet they'd view journaling as just one big note.