Personal, meaningless review of new denominational packages

MJ. Smith · 2025-01-13T20:55:17+00:00

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I was not pleased to see the Verbum libraries reduced to a single line of packages. This was made worse by my already owning everything in the new packages.
I was not pleased to see the Anglican libraries' new materials being skewed heavily towards the counseling side of ministry. I always leave counseling materials in the cloud as of no particular interest to me. I'd prefer to see them in their own package.
The Lutheran libraries, however, were particularly good this year. They moved up a level in my collection.
The Orthodox libraries were unremarkable i.e. about the same quality and mix as before.

The net result between the base package and the denominational packages, I spent about a third of what I spent in the last round. It wasn't an intentional cutback, it was simply a matter of less materials I wanted in the packages. Only three books from my wishlists were picked off.

And, yes, I do occasionally pick up denominations not listed above, esp. Methodist/Wesleyan but I saw nothing compelling outside my usual four.

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Comments

Paul Caneparo

I couldn't see any package of interest (unfortunately?). I did only look up to Bronze level in every Protestant package, as I don't like to over spend - especially as I have a number to prepubs due to release soon.

I also checked books in my wishlists to see if they appeared in any new denominational libraries. Very few books appeared, but none in any number in the same libraries to compell me to seriously consider one of the new libraries.

Fred Grimm

I reviewed all the Wesley library levels and found them to be very weak with very few contemporary Wesleyan writers. Most of the writers were Baptist, Reformed, or Roman Catholics. All fine traditions from which I have learned a lot, but hardly Wesleyan.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1353314#Comment_1353314

All the more reason to add such books to the suggestions and encourage everyone to vote early and vote often. We need to push Logos to both produce what we need and to produce that which will expand their market.

Larry Craig

I found the whole site unworkable. I just gave up looking.

Lynden O. Williams

@MJ. Smith. It also depends on whether the publisher is will to make a deal that Logos can live with.

Lynden O. Williams

Is Logos willing to make a deal that the publisher can live with.

Frank Sauer

Having checked out the Standard and Reformed packages - I haven't seen anything that I want to purchase, but sometimes I think that it could be more of my having most of what I desired to have in my Library rather than the offering itself…. Maybe a combination of both…

Larry Craig

i went back on the site now to give it another chance

is it just me? Instead of opening to a whole page for each package, it gave me the bottom third of the page to scroll down, and there was no ability to click on a resource to learn more about it.

Nobody else is having this problem?

GregW

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1353335#Comment_1353335

I’m not having that problem on my iPad - I can tap on an individual resource to get more information and click through to the product page in the store.

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1353393#Comment_1353393

thank you

I am just going to the search bar and looking for 2025 whatever. I may miss a few but that's working. the other way I tried 2-3 times and gave up

mike

The lack of Zondervan resources like always is unsurprising.

Aaron Hamilton

The 2025 Messianic Jewish Diamond looks interesting.

I like this addition: https://www.logos.com/product/30801/commentary-on-the-new-testament-from-the-talmud-and-midrash

Sean

I'm also disappointed with the packages both now and the standard packages released last year. I usually buy a smaller library, typically silver, but none of them have anything that's really catching my eye. I, too, am constrained by already owning most everything I want in my field (systematic theology) and it not being worthwhile to go for a higher package just to pick up more volumes in that area. At some point I'll likely look them over again, but this could very well be the first release year from which I don't buy a new library.

DMB

I followed Larry Craig's path and just entered '2025' to see what I'd be missing, as an unsubscriber. I was surprised. My gorgeous Orthodox libraries lost their luster. Best I can determine, this year they used mainly monographs (vs commentaries/sets). Not a lot of Fathers sets either (for the libraries in my budget range).

Well, ok. So much for that subscription angle.

I'll stick with the Faith in Formula prepub, and wonder about the Hebrew Encyclopedia prepub. This year's plan of library building!

Pastor Don Carpenter

For what it is worth, I am pleased with the Baptist Portfolio 2025. I had the 2024 version and the upgrade was nice. I do hope FL continues to add more from Sword of the Lord and some classic John R. Rice.

Larry Craig

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1353458#Comment_1353458

You saw the Great Preaching series? Make a suggestion in the resource suggestion feedback. I like John R. I have him in print. So much good stuff on Logos I don't look at him much. yes, but make the suggestion.

Kevin Houghtaling

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1353409#Comment_1353409

The Diamond collection big spend is AYBC. If you want Anchor Yale you might save some money with Biblioteca Colecionador 2025 and see if you still go with the Diamond collection or then pick the other resources that interest you.

Aaron Hamilton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1353470#Comment_1353470

AYBC doesn't factor into my decision personally, as I acquired it through a different library.

EastTN

They're still requiring a subscription, so it looks like this is the first release in over a decade where I won't be buying any base packages.

1Cor10 31

i have decent sized library (12K resources). i have perused all the libraries released till now - the ones released last year and the denominational libraries.

One word summary: UNDERWHELMING!

Sean

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1353537#Comment_1353537

My library is half the size of yours, but I feel the same. Usually I can find one new package that has a collection or set I really want that makes it worth it to buy it—e.g., last cycle I bought Orthodox bronze (I think) to get Pelikan's The Christian Tradition; the cycle before that Academic had some things I really wanted to round out my reference materials. The other stuff I got with them was just a bonus. This cycle I can't find anything like that at all, anything that makes it seem worth it to buy a library. As someone posted in another thread, Logos isn't adding new resources—at least the kind that interest me—fast enough to release new packages so frequently that will interest long-term customers with substantial libraries. I'm filtering out resources I already own, so I can't really comment how good the packages are for someone who doesn't own much—but they're not good enough for me.

Jeremy Gunter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1353409#Comment_1353409

@Aaron Hamilton, I had already bought the "Commentary on the New Testament from the Talmud and Midrash" about a year ago, and I love it. I probably read and annotate it more than almost any resource from my library.

Jeremy Gunter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/245286/personal-meaningless-review-of-new-denominational-packages

@MJ. Smith, out of curiosity, which resources in particular caught your attention in the Lutheran libraries? I tend to focus on Verbum, the Orthodox, and the Messianic Jewish libraries, but perhaps I should be looking into some of the other collections.

MJ. Smith

@Jeremy Gunter

Dictionary of Luther and Lutheran Traditions
The New Westminster Dictionary of Liturgy and Worship
Documents from the History of Lutheranism 1517-1750
Documentary History of Lutheranism
Christification a Lutheran approach to Theosis

These are the ones that caught my eye as filling gaps in my library. I also appreciated the study guides as they encourage me to read the resources at the edge of my knowledge. And I liked the presumed improvement in the questions for the Bible Study tool by the Bible studies which are closer to my approach.

John Fidel

I have looked through these. If you are at all interested in the Smyth & Helwys or Welwyn commentaries the Baptist Portfolio is worth a look. It is around $500 for me, but the two commentaries are 2K if I bought them separately. I have a few volumes of each and will review them further before deciding.

This is the one package I will strongly consider.

T. L. Brown

I have to agree with you @MJ that the offerings this year are "UNDERWHELMING!" I am also disappointed that the Kerygma Package doesn't seem to get ANY love. I thought this would be Logos' opportunity to appeal to a neglected demographic (African-American Pastors, Preachers & Scholars) but not so much. If Logos ever discovered the richness of the writings of some of the great thinkers in this categories, I think they would find a whole new revenue stream of new users and new book buyers! By the way, I have nearly 30k resources so even if I were the only one interested, it could be advantageous! Just my 2 cents!

Lynden O. Williams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1353813#Comment_1353813

There may be another option. The publishers do not want their books in a base package, thus earning them less revenue.

EastTN

If FaithLife is shifting their business model to depend more on subscription revenue, and less on one-time sales, perhaps it's not surprising that the packages are less appealing this time. They may have put relatively less development time into them.

That's not to suggest they don't want to keep selling books. Just an observation that it may be receiving a bit less of their time and focus.

Larry Craig

maybe it's just a reflection on what new resources have become available in Logos.

Lynden O. Williams

Or publishers don't want their books bundled.

DMB

Publishers backing out (Lynden): Possible, but typically, that'd be a slow process of contract renewal negotiations.
Availability of new resources (Larry): Probably true (MJ notes the recent need for actually shipped). But all of the libraries?
Shifting business emphasis model (EastTn): Since this is the first of the 'New Era', probably impacting it. Again, since the issue is across the board, a secondary issue?

I would have thought, profit maximizing (as also increased prices on the individual resources with a 5% off subscribers). But I look at this option as odd. The libraries historically have been a major motivator for spending money you shouldn't. So, why create unattractive libraries for subscribers?

A mystery.

Donovan R. Palmer

I am not sure what the profit margin is for Logos with these bundles, but in all the years I have been a Logos user, I have never been not tempted to splash out some cash on a new package. This might be a reflection of the size of my library, but the packages don’t play to my use case. Whether this is due to a shift to subscriptions, publisher pressures, or whatever… but a subscription in this new era is all I have spent my money on so far. Maybe the golden era of building libraries is over? The good news is that I am really grateful for what I have, so this is not entirely a bad thing! 🙂

John

@Donovan R. Palmer

Maybe the golden era of building libraries is over?

When major publishers allow their titles to be used in a subscription model, I think its over for Logos selling huge libraries.

Unless subscription prices are driven up too high. And there is no logical reason they would stay low. The sky is the limit.

Maybe there will be revival of interest in printed books, since they are actually cheaper now than electronic versions.

TheChosenOne

I just bought Baptist Platinum, Anglican Silver, and Wesleyan Gold.

Some thoughts:

Logos seems to be transitioning to a yearly library release. This increases the frequency which libraries are compiled to be published.
The pace of Libraries released will be faster than getting the resources in the ecosystem, plus resources are not published at that speed (Commentary series release 1-3 books per year). With this, the libraries will always include duplicate resources. In the long run, this means that the library quality "drops".
As some others have pointed out, Logos needs to strike deals with other publishers to include their books in the libraries. I suspect that given the post-pandemic era, publishers will be even more reluctant to allow Faithlife to include books in the packages since it does affect the publishers profit margin.
The new kind of library (Researcher, leader and preacher) but the lack of denom library variation (eg: eastern rite and etc) is a one step forward and one step back. I would like to see some other variation of denom libraries (Or target audience): Those from the theologically liberal tradition, and even some from the post-liberal theological tradition. A package for a none-denom packages, perhaps one for different global context (Think asia, africa). Again, I don't necessarily need to agree with the POV of the tradition.
With this, the overlooked resources that cannot be included in the normal base library can be heavily discounted in a niche library.