Playing video in background in another application hijacks NDI output in Proclaim

We encountered a strange bug (related to a larger issue that needs addressing).

FIRST, THE SETUP: Our projectors are connected directly to Birddog NDI receivers. The Birddogs receive the NDI signal and output via HDMI to the projectors. The Birddogs DO NOT have the ability to rescale the resolution or framerate. What it gets is what it sends.

SECOND, THE ODDITY: For whatever reason, Proclaim doesn't send out stable 60fps NDI outputs. The best way to explain what I mean is by way of comparison. I'll compare vMIX (or OBS) to Proclaim's NDI output. Let's say you set up a 60fps NDI output in vMIX for the main screen. Now, regardless of what input you put on that screen, you get a constant 60fps NDI output. It doesn't matter if you have a blank screen, a static image, a live 24fps camera feed with a static overlay, or playback a 30fps video. It renders whatever is there to 60fps, and that's what goes out for the NDI signal. Not so with vMIX. When you click between a slide with static background to a slide with moving background to a video playback, it's like the NDI output changes. I don't know that there is an actual break in the output, but the fps/resolution of the output definitely adjusts.

THIRD, THE BUG: Finally, the actual bug. We were projecting lyrics for some guest singers through Proclaim (NDI output as described above). They wanted us to play some background music for their singing and gave one of our a/v guys a file. So, they decided to play the audio file via Windows Media Player on the same laptop we were running Proclaim from (since we already had audio signal going to our sound board from that laptop). Well, I'm not sure what would have happened if it was an mp3 file, but it turns out what they gave the a/v guy was an mp4 file that was just black screen with audio layer. Well, as soon as they started playback on the file, the NDI output on Proclaim freaked out. It's like WMP hijacked the NDI output from Proclaim. Bad!

BONUS, THE LIMITATION: What I'm about to describe has been reported to Proclaim multiple times, but there is no traction on coming up with a solution as of yet. And this is not a bug so much as a design limitation, but it is so, so frustrating for us to work around. Given that our projectors can't physically project 30fps ("frequency out of range" errors), whenever we try to play a video or use a motion background that's 30fps in Proclaim, the projectors freak out (Proclaim is not sending a stable 60fps NDI output). For context, if we input the NDI signal into vMIX (or OBS) first and then connect our projectors to the 60fps NDI output from vMix, there is no problem at all. Ever. Because vMix is actually giving a rendered 60fps NDI output regardless of the inputs. We can't actually use this as a regular solution, unfortunately, because chaining NDI signals introduces lag, and we need vMIX for our livestream production (cameras, proclaim slide overlays, etc…), not for projecting Proclaim slides.

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Comments

Jordan Sjodin

Thanks for your post and sorry for the issues!

Well, as soon as they started playback on the file, the NDI output on Proclaim freaked out. It's like WMP hijacked the NDI output from Proclaim. Bad!

So what actually happens? A video of the issue would be helpful

Where have you reported your fps issue? Sorry it feels like you haven't got any traction. This is the first I have heard of it. I do see you have one post on the subject a while back, that another community member helped a little with.

I'm surprised the BirdDog doesn't create a stable source for the projectors as part of the conversion to HMDI. I have a different NDI receiver here I can try a test with. Mine is from Magewell though.

Jordan Sjodin

This is on Mac, so I need to swap over to windows and do a similar test.

But in Proclaim I went to Settings > Display > Output section, and made a new NDI output and there I chose 60hz as my frame rate.

And now, as I sit on a static slide, the NDI video monitor reports my signal as 1080/60p like I would expect. And playing a video, also has the same behavior.

Joseph Hession

» What happens is the projectors black out, blink, and/or show a "frequency out of range" message.
» Curious, have you tried playing a 30fps video and verifying that the ndi signal itself is 60fps?
» Magewell, unlike birddog, has a converter I believe. So it may be picking up a 30fps NDI signal and converting to 60fps. Your real test to replicate is to play a 30fps video in Proclaim and see what the NDI signal's frame rate is on its way in to the Magewell.
» A long-term recommended solution was in fact to put a micro-converter in between the birddog and projector, such as Black Magic micro converter. The issue for us is this is all very high up and requires renting a lift to reach everything, so we don't want to go through all that until we need to get up there for other things as well.