REQUEST: Make middle mouse button autoscrolling work in L4

I have the very same problem.  I have a logitech mouse and loved to auto scroll to read the text.  I would enlarge it to 300% and let the auto scroll do it thing while I set back in my recliner.  The auto scroll works on all other windows applications but not in Logos 4.    

Bradley Grainger said:

Autoscroll is already implemented (in internal builds) for resources; it should be in 4.0a.

Hey, Bradley, I like you. You have always some good news for us. Will we be able to scroll also on the touch pads on the notebooks? (I mean, just a regular scrolling, not that fancy one Thomas is talking about).

Bradley Grainger said:

... it's ready.

Then, so am I...

... Are you ready for me?????

Thomas Black said:

StephenBurrow said:

When you are scrolling pages in L4, is it smooth like in a web browser?  For me, scrolling in L4 is a jerky, ratchetity affair, with slight lags.  It's the one thing that is getting under my skin about L4 and I want to determine if it is my setup or the program.

Scrolling by rolling the wheel mouse is not smooth.  This is because the computer interprets each "click" on the wheel as a certain number of lines.  Mine is set for 7 lines per click.

I don't believe it's just your setup.

I can certainly agree that on my setup L4 scrolling is not as smooth as my browser scrolling, regardless of what my mouse setting is set to. I noticed that having the information or power lookup window open makes it worse.

Bradley Grainger said:

Non-scrolling with touchpads is actually due to a WPF bug (https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=453632&wa=wsignin1.0) that we can't fix. It may be fixed in .NET 4.0 (expected to be released in March 2010); if so, an upgraded version of Logos 4 (that runs on .NET 4.0) would be able to deliver that fix to you.

Thanks Bradley. How I said it, you always have some good news for us? well, not this time. [:(] I use the touch-pad all the time. I don't understand guys who has to carry a mouse with the notebook. Hmm... It looks I will have to change my attitude.

Thomas Black said:

Bohuslav,

I wonder if your touchpad driver can be set so that the top right corner (for example) triggers the middle click which will work in the upcoming incarnation. 

It depends on your drivers, but some of the Synaptics drivers have lots of customization available.

I played with it few times with no results. I am skeptical on that, however I will try to google more on the issue. Thanks anyway.

Bradley Grainger said:

Bohuslav Wojnar said:

Will we be able to scroll also on the touch pads on the notebooks?

I don't think anyone has looked into that yet, but we do have a notebook with a (non-functional in Logos 4) touchpad here, so we have the environment to reproduce the problem and test a fix.

The OS should not know the difference between the mouse scroll and touchpad scroll; in other words, it will work [:)]

Thomas Black said:

Ken, I suspect that's contingent on how WPF handles this.  I believe that's the problem, else it never would have been an issue.

Interesting, I have never seen a difference between my HP Portable and my mouse using any program, they both function the same.

I just read thru the issue; it sounds like the touchpad is working fine; though, WPF is detecting the scrollpad and then throwing away the WM_MOUSEWHEEL event; bad Microsoft WPF!

Rosie Perera said:

You can use PageUp & PageDown as a workaround.

I like your optimism Rosie [:)] You know, I am so used to do scrolling with the touch-pad that to remember not to do it in Logos is really difficult.

But, hey, I just wanted to update on that:  If you use the Logos 4.0a RC, you can use the auto-scrolling function. That's good news. In my notebook (Dell XPS) I have to click both left and right touch-pad button and this way I get to the auto scrolling mode. Good job Logos.

P.S. Of course regular scrolling/sliding with the touch-pad is very much needed, but apparently it is a problem of Microsoft, not Logos.

I know that this topic may have been, all but, "written off" since the last words seemed to be more of a "Dear John" abandonment letter than anything else, and reads like this:

Dear User,

"Don't look at us; it's not our fault, it's a bug in Microsoft's WPF, that we chose to build Logos4 upon, so standby ... but DON'T hold your breath. We've heard that help might be on its way ... Next Year ... in the spring ... perhaps ...

Maybe ... Possibly ... Eventually ... We'd imagine ... We think, or at least Hope ...?

Anyhow ... going to Vegas to find ourselves, don't forget to feed the dog, Bye!"

Signed,

Logos4

BUT

I would like to correct this apparent flaw in the logic here, and if nothing else is  done by Logos, or "can" be done, (something can always be done), at least I will have attempted to bring clarity to the issue.  Let me give a simple reminder, posed as a question and as a means to illuminate the essence of Logos4's conclusion to this topic:

Of the 2 Companies  that could be said to be "responsible" for this (i.e. Microsoft and Logos4) which of them did I make my payment to, and which of them accepted, and benefited from it?!?

My point, in the case that it was missed: I am concerned little with WHAT it is,  WHOSE fault it is, or that it might even, very well, be an MS problem; nor do I need confirmation of that ... it would change little, since I didn't pay to use MS's WPF software, I paid to use Logos4's software. So, the only thing that identifying the "responsible party" would change is that my purchase of Logos4 would be a disappointment, thus far to me, because its developers chose a foundation, upon which to place their software, that could not deliver to me the most basic of my needs/expectations. i.e. The NAVIGATION of that software. Rather than it being a disappointment to me because its developers chose an adequate tool, but implemented it poorly. The difference between those two conclusions is all that changes.

Either way, to someone like me, who is unwilling to spend time unlearning and 'regressing' in their software navigation, it comes back to the fact that, Loogos4's response is unacceptable and flawed (especially in a day of rampant blame-shifting, while we're stuck here sojourning with a people incapable of taking responsibility) my inability to use this new purchase, is a burden laid squarely at the feet of Logos4, I am not angry, hostile, bitter, etc., that's just the facts of the matter. Therefore a response like "it's not our fault" is unacceptable, and in like manner, a response such as "we can't do anything about it, it's out of our control - but be patient, without holding your breath, it will be fixed at some point.", is equally unacceptable.

Let's step back a few feet and take a look at the larger picture:

If the purchase can't do what it is supposed to, and the problem cannot currently be fixed by Logos4, but instead creates a situation, for a handful of its customers, where avoiding the use of their software purchase is the preferred solution, then at the very least, a more becoming response by royalty like ourselves, who have been called to that which we've been called to, might possibly be something along the lines of: sincere apologies ... acceptance of responsibility for the product that we sold - (and *gasp* THE ENTIRE PRODUCT, at that) ... and perhaps even some form of compensation, or consolation offering to the handful of effected users (i.e. those who have been, diligently and hopefully, tracking this thread in hopes of soon being able to endure the use of their new software). Any of those, or a combination thereof,  would be much more noble, and fitting responses for royalty like us (i.e. us and our family members at Logos4, as I would confidently assume there are)

Furthermore, if my payment, to Logos4, for Logos4 "bounced" I would feel pretty silly blaming someone else who I may rely on (even if I could, and it were the truth). I was the one who clicked "Buy Now", not them. Likewise, to say "I'll pay you eventually, just be patient ... the check will be in the mail, someday ..." is not something I could do either. Not only would I not be able to leave it like that, in good conscience, Logos4 WOULD NOT ALLOW ME TO LEAVE IT LIKE THAT, right?

So, regardless of "who is responsible for" this SIGNIFICANT shortcoming in a very basic feature within the software that I purchased. I am letting YOU know (Logos4) that YOUR product does not meet even the most basic expectations of mine; navigation of the software, to the point that I have yet to use it for more than 10 minutes before frustration overwhelms the desire to use the software. This expectation is indeed a "basic" feature of any software, in this day and age, but it would MORE ACCURATELY be referred to as a FUNDAMENTAL feature for software like Logos4 ... software which lends itself to multiple small reading panes being simultaneously opened and used.

Thank you for receiving my counsel,

David M. Hunt

Bohuslav Wojnar said:

click both left and right touch-pad button and this way I get to the auto scrolling mode

Obviously, YMMV. Mine doesn't. [:'(]

Hi David,

I don't even have a middle button with which to engage auto-scrolling (scroll bars on a synaptics touchpad eliminate the need in every other app). And I have RSI in both wrists, after a long career on the keyboard in Info Systems. I'm constantly optimizing my work to eliminate keystrokes. Having to page instead of scroll is a hardship, not an inconvenience. All this is to say I feel your pain...

I won't try to sell you on L4's benefits, as you seem to be keeping your toes in the waters & increasing your use as it permits / you are productive.

Have you thought about installing L3 & using your L4 library in back in L3, in the interim? L3 is tried & true... scrolling works... and you'll still have L4 for what it does better. Many of us have both going (me included).

Here's a link to installation for L3: http://www.logos.com/support/downloads/ldls 

And here's a link to use your L4 resources back in L3: http://blog.logos.com/archives/2009/12/using_your_new_logos_4_resources_in_logos_3_or_logos_for_mac_1.html

Blessings!

 My last post was to Dominic, sorry for not clarifying ... also, I wasn't aware of another option than these forums ... Thank You!!

Bill
s - Thank you for the heads up about L3 ... wasn't even aware that was
an option ... not ideal, but is anything ever; I may give that a shot -
Thank You!!!

David M. Hunt

David M. Hunt and others: here is some good news for all of you who have had the Synaptics touchpad problem. Windows appears to have fixed it in the latest update (Windows 7 anyway; if you're still on Vista, you will have to check to see if there has been a comparable fix released for Vista): http://community.logos.com/forums/p/16042/141059.aspx#141059

I hope Logos is now finally vindicated that this wasn't their fault.

MJ. Smith said:

David M. Hunt said:

the year is 2010, and my expectations surround technology

David, I believe this summarizes your problem with Logos very well. One thing has been a given in working with computers since the 1960's - with an introduction to them in the mid-50's. Interfaces come and go. Standards for interface devices change. Any application makes decisions about what devices to support and to what extent. The simple fact is that Logos chose to go with support for devices that are compatible with WPF. That is a reasonable industry standard; not the only choice that could be made but a reasonable choice. The quickest solution to your problem is an attitude adjustment on the chair to keyboard interface. It may be a sub-optimal solution but I guarantee it works. I've had to use it myself several times.

Martha, once again you've responded to a very old post (four months old). I did it because I was offering new potentially helpful info. But it doesn't help to chide someone for their attitude in a post that was that old. His attitude may very well have changed between then and now, or he might have gone away by now. Either way, using a fire poker on an old dormant flame-thrower isn't very productive. Pour a cup of cold water over the flames, maybe. They might hiss for a while, but that's about it.

It is absolutely ridiculous and unacceptable for Logos to say,"we can't fix it...it is a Microsoft problem"! I suspect hundreds of people (perhaps more) have laptops over a year old with a Synaptics Touchpad that Logos 4 will not scroll with. You made a big deal out of all the supposed new features of 4. Actually it is all tricked up and much more complicated to use than the old 3. You guys blew it. The measure of software isn't how tricked up you can make it but how easy and effective it is for the user!