SUGGESTION: Logos Home Page Adhere to Forum Guidlines - Sabbath Rest
Bob,
Why is Logos held to a different standard than us users here in the forums?
If something appears in my home page does that mean its fair game for discussion here in the forums?
The seventh day was the day of rest, the Sabbath. The structure of verses 2 and 3 in the Hebrew is well ordered in its clauses with parallel emphases on the adjective seventh. The number "seven" often represents the covenant (the verb "swear" is related etymologically); thus it is no surprise that the Sabbath became the sign of God’s covenant at Sinai (Ex. 31:13, 17).
God blessed the seventh day and made it holy
To see this drivel posted in my face when I startup my software is entirely offensive.
Perhaps it would be better to keep things to the forum guidlines....
Comments
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Nathan Barnes said:
To see this drivel posted in my face when I startup my software is entirely offensive.
That is rather a harsh word. I won't debate the origin nor potential intent/merit of the quotation but merely stating that you disagreed with it would have been sufficient.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Nathan Barnes said:
If something appears in my home page does that mean its fair game for discussion here in the forums?
Give me a clue - did this appear as an excerpt of a resource you own? as a blog entry? As a pre-pub? My reaction would depend upon how it got on the Home page. One thing I am very careful about on the forum - not giving my opinion on certain resources.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Nathan Barnes said:
To see this posted in my face when I startup my software is
If you go to the bottom left of L4 and click on Customize you can not start with the Home page. I personally like to read that stuff.
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I don't really understand your issue. From what book is the quotation, who is the author and what is the context in which it is stated? To simply call it drivel and offensive is a bit over the top, especially when you have not taking the context into account.
Also, to argue that Logos have double (different) standards is not fair. The software chooses random parts from books in you library. Within my library there is books with whom I disagree, but I will not call it drivel. As Christians we do disagree about a lot of things, but to call another believers' viewpoints drivel (since you do not say who wrote that piece, I assume the author is a Christian believer) is not fair and appears a bit haughty. We can always learn from each other. That is one of the advantages of Logos. They do not limit the available resources to one or two viewpoints, but they publish books from a wide spectrum of theological viewpoints. I stand within a particular theological group, but I have learned a lot from Christians who stand in a complete opposite group.
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Dave Hooton said:
That is rather a harsh word. I won't debate the origin nor potential intent/merit of the quotation but merely stating that you disagreed with it would have been sufficient
Well, Scuuse me for not being politically correct, or appearing harsh...but I have seen some pretty harsh words in the forums for those "breaking" the rules. Ummm how do you know I "disagree" anyway.....You are making an assumption. Ha, anyway drivel is such a cool word...just had to use it, gotta hand it to the brits, and I have seen it used before...do a search. Hmmm maybe thats why we should stick to the forum rules....
P.S. You did not address the issue of the post.
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S Slab said:
I don't really understand your issue. From what book is the quotation, who is the author and what is the context in which it is stated? To simply call it drivel and offensive is a bit over the top, especially when you have not taking the context into account.
Also, to argue that Logos have double (different) standards is not fair. The software chooses random parts from books in you library. Within my library there is books with whom I disagree, but I will not call it drivel. As Christians we do disagree about a lot of things, but to call another believers' viewpoints drivel (since you do not say who wrote that piece, I assume the author is a Christian believer) is not fair and appears a bit haughty. We can always learn from each other. That is one of the advantages of Logos. They do not limit the available resources to one or two viewpoints, but they publish books from a wide spectrum of theological viewpoints. I stand within a particular theological group, but I have learned a lot from Christians who stand in a complete opposite group.
Yes I agree completely...so are we going to change the forum rules?
Ummm so we can "quote" Logos resources and break the "rules" here in the forums? There IS a double standard.
Ok so shall we now discuss the "seventh" day Sabbath here on the forums? I mean...its in our resources right.. So maybe I should post random quotations from my resources...add a few remarks of my own..we're good right? The whole point of the "SUGGESTION" is to adhere to the forum rules.
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MJ. Smith said:
Give me a clue - did this appear as an excerpt of a resource you own? as a blog entry? As a pre-pub? My reaction would depend upon how it got on the Home page. One thing I am very careful about on the forum - not giving my opinion on certain resources.
It is on the "Home" page (thats what I call it) with all the "news" items and postings from logos. You know, I'm just making a point people...I see all these posts about "breaking the rules" and then Logos posts quotations from obviously biased commentaries, then expects us to adhere to a different standard here in the forums.
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Logos are not breaking any rules. The rules are that this forum is not for theological discussion, so no rules broken.
Logos is set up to show excerpts from your resources. If you don't like the excerpts, either turn excerpts off, or hide the 'offending' resource. You're in control.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
Logos are not breaking any rules. The rules are that this forum is not for theological discussion, so no rules broken.
Logos is set up to show excerpts from your resources. If you don't like the excerpts, either turn excerpts off, or hide the 'offending' resource. You're in control.
Ok, cool, so I can post random quotations from my resources that agree with my particular theological POV here on the forums right?
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Nathan Barnes said:
It is on the "Home" page (thats what I call it) with all the "news" items and postings from logos.
Yes, I understand that it is on the Home Page - however, the home page has a variety of different things in it that you can turn on and off. In some of these home page things, I would chuckle at the entry and call it "luck of the draw". In other areas, I might well decide to turn off the feature.
While I appreciate the point you are trying to make, your comparing a bell rope to an internet connection [ apples and oranges is so yesterday]. The bell rope/home page is one way communication between you and a random content generator. While you might be displeased with the content, you can't launch a personal attack on the personal beliefs of the random content generator. However, you can pull the plug. With the internet connection/forums content is generated by people with more or less ability to express themselves clearly in writing, with wild diversity in beliefs, personalities, maturity, sense of propriety, mental stability, native languages, logic, emotions, education, ... here it isn't one-way communication with a machine but two-way communication with a person. Guess what! Different rules apply.
As for your use of the term "drivel", I've not said much worse ... think don't say is my usual motto. But certainly others have said worse directed at individuals not at a resource or machine. Just remember one man's drivel is another's gold and we don't want to make the latter feel unwelcome.
Nathan Barnes said:Ok, cool, so I can post random quotations
from my resources that agree with my particular theological POV here on
the forums right?Nope, bad equating of two differing forms of communication leads to bad conclusions even if the logic is technically correct. Always bear in mind the first syllogism I considered worth remembering:
- A donut is better than nothing.
- Nothing is better than heaven.
- Therefore, a donut is better than heaven.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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[quote]Ok, cool, so I can post random quotations from my resources that agree with my particular theological POV here on the forums right?
I get the feeling that your problem is not the resource, but the forum and you are looking for an excuse to verbally abuse other forum users. I have not come across any posts that I feel was inappropriate, but then again, I haven't read all posts. The forum here is not for theological discussions, and the fact that Logos Homepage took a quote from a resource you own does not give the right to go on personal crusades. The forum is to help other people to USE the software. Logos only publish resources, they do not write them, so you cannot call them on double standards. You are trying to make this thing personal
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Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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[quote]P.S. I was addressing the issue!
I agree that Dave was addressing the issue. Nathan, I have the feeling that you are looking for a fight. I agree with Dave, calling that quote drivel is not appropriate and unnecessary,0 -
Thanks MJ. I actually was encouraged by that quote and was HIGHLY offended that someone would find it offensive....the Lord's Sabbath offensive??? Besides...ooopps almost got into a theological discussion there....
...steps away from soapbox,
nancy
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M.J. I agree with your response in general, but I question the absence of human input in the theological bias of the "random content generator", if that was your implication. I have previously noted bias on the Home Page, but it seemed to be aimed to please the wider evangelical and "mainline" Christian audience. So I would say that this forum isn't the place to note or discuss theological differences, but I do agree that the Home Page would do well not to grind certain axes.
"For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power"
Wiki Table of Contents0 -
If you want to continue seeing excerpts from books on your home page, you can always hide this resource and any other that discusses the ten commandments and they will not show up.
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While I respect the right for the original poster to hold his view, I would like to express my view to Logos that they make sure the Logos Home Page abides by the Home page rules, and the Logos forum abide by the Logos forum rules. Except of course on the Sabbath. On that day they should abide by the Logos forum sabbatical rules. And of course every seventh year....[:D]
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Philip Spitzer said:
While I respect the right for the original poster to hold his view, I would like to express my view to Logos that they make sure the Logos Home Page abides by the Home page rules, and the Logos forum abide by the Logos forum rules. Except of course on the Sabbath. On that day they should abide by the Logos forum sabbatical rules. And of course every seventh year....
Philip...
The next sound you hear will be Rosie knocking your front door down... [:P]
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Nathan, my library is full of works with which I disagree in part or in whole. It matters not to me if such quotations appear on the homepage. I rather like them, actually.
I like theological discussion, if it is done with respect (and often it is not, as happens here on the forums). I would LIKE to enter theological discussions on these forums. But that is not what Logos wants, and I understand that, even if I prefer other.
Blessing in the Lord to you today.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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I agree. Let's keep this forum for what it is meant: to discuss the software and help each other. There are a lot of forums where theological discussions are allowed, or we could always ask Logos to start a new forum especially for theological discussions [H]
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Sorry you were offended. It was not intentional.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
In what way is this thread encouraging or building anyone up? IMHO everything that could be said (whether it should have been or not) has been said. Maybe its time to study and enjoy this wonderful tool we have at our disposal and put this thread to bed.
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Robert Pavich said:Philip Spitzer said:
While I respect the right for the original poster to hold his view, I would like to express my view to Logos that they make sure the Logos Home Page abides by the Home page rules, and the Logos forum abide by the Logos forum rules. Except of course on the Sabbath. On that day they should abide by the Logos forum sabbatical rules. And of course every seventh year....
Philip...
The next sound you hear will be Rosie knocking your front door down...
It probably would be good for the record to state what was meant to be taken seriously and what was said in jest. I sincerely do respect the right of the OP to think that the same rules should govern both the forum and the Logos homepage. I believe the "rules" should be different as they both fulfill different purposes. Aside from that all was jest which may in and of itself have gone against the spirit with which Logos wants the forum to operate.
Yes, Rosie, I really am that scared of you :-)
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Easy solution - turn off the Home Page, which is what I have done. Not because I am offended, but because I want an easy and quick way to get into the software. About once a week I will view the Home Page to see what I may have missed.
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
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I enjoyed the discussion about a quote from Walvoord, J. F., Zuck, R. B., & Dallas Theological Seminary. (1983-). The Bible knowledge commentary : An exposition of the scriptures. Wheaton, IL: Victor Books. (Didja ever wonder why the words in the title are not capitalized?)
I especially enjoyed the raised eyebrows over the word "drivel." My wife and I often use that word to describe music unthinkingly pulled off the radio and misused as praise & worship... heheh.
I thought it funny that only one person is afraid of Rosie. I thought we all stood in fear of both MJ and Rosie, as in "a fear conjoined with love and hope, and is therefore not a slavish dread, but rather filial reverence." Easton, M. (1996). Easton's Bible dictionary. Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.!
{charley}
running Logos Bible Software 6.0a: Collector's Edition on HP e9220y (AMD Phenom II X4 2.60GHz 8.00GB 64-bit Win 7 Pro SP1) & iPad (mini) apps.
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Dr. Charles A. Wootten said:
I thought it funny that only one person is afraid of Rosie. I thought we all stood in fear of both MJ and Rosie, as in "a fear conjoined with love and hope, and is therefore not a slavish dread, but rather filial reverence." Easton, M. (1996). Easton's Bible dictionary. Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.!
Absolutely!!!
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
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Mark Barnes said:
Logos are not breaking any rules. The rules are that this forum is not for theological discussion, so no rules broken.
Logos is set up to show excerpts from your resources. If you don't like the excerpts, either turn excerpts off, or hide the 'offending' resource. You're in control.
Mark's answer addressed the original post so well, I had to quote it so we can read it again.
The Homepage in your software is an entirely different arena than the forums. They are each jurisdictions with their own laws. One intended purpose of the software is obviously theological studies. The forum's stated purpose does not include theological discussions but specifically bans them. Since Creator God gets testy when we use things for "other than their intended purpose," we ought to at least try to stay within the guidelines here. I can not recall one incident where a Logos employee promoted or attacked a theological stance. They seem to bend over backwards to avoid offending anyone. On the other hand, several of the Wild West Deputies have been known to shoot everybody and let God sort them out.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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S Slab said:
I get the feeling that your problem is not the resource, but the forum and you are looking for an excuse to verbally abuse other forum users. I have not come across any posts that I feel was inappropriate, but then again, I haven't read all posts. The forum here is not for theological discussions, and the fact that Logos Homepage took a quote from a resource you own does not give the right to go on personal crusades. The forum is to help other people to USE the software. Logos only publish resources, they do not write them, so you cannot call them on double standards. You are trying to make this thing personal
Ha ha...I was not verbally abusing another forum user, or going on a personal crusade. I was verbally abusing (drivel=abuse?) a theologically biased random content generator (computer). I made no theological assertions, I simply made a SUGGESTION that a theologically biased content generator be held to the same standards as users here on the forum.
Hmmm I wonder if a random posting on the home page from resources in Logos that questions the virgin birth of Messiah would create any user feedback. Or...how about say... a random posting on Lev 18:22 and homosexuality. So as long as the CLOUD (its alive! its alive!) [;)] believes that it is ok to discuss the seventh day Sabbath.... equal weights and measures folks.
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Nathan Barnes said:
I was not verbally abusing another forum user, or going on a personal crusade.
Could have fooled me.
A random content generator can be theologically biased? Aside from disabling that in your own software, do you desire to remove all theological content from everybody's homepage? The forums are for an entirely different purpose; to help users get the most out of their software.
You probably don't go to church to eat a big dinner and you wouldn't expect a sermon preached in a restaurant. Likewise, your theological contendings belong in your software and concerns with program functionalities here.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Nathan Barnes said:
Bob,
Why is Logos held to a different standard than us users here in the forums?
If something appears in my home page does that mean its fair game for discussion here in the forums?
The seventh day was the day of rest, the Sabbath. The structure of verses 2 and 3 in the Hebrew is well ordered in its clauses with parallel emphases on the adjective seventh. The number "seven" often represents the covenant (the verb "swear" is related etymologically); thus it is no surprise that the Sabbath became the sign of God’s covenant at Sinai (Ex. 31:13, 17).
(sanctified it) because it commemorated the completion or cessation of His creative work. God’s Sabbath rest became a predominant motif of Scripture. Here before the Fall it represented the perfect Creation, sanctified and at rest. After the Fall this rest became a goal to be sought. The establishment of theocratic rest in the land, whether by Moses or by Joshua at the Conquest, demanded faith and obedience. Today believers enter into that Sabbath rest spiritually (Heb. 4:8-10) and will certainly share in its full restoration.
God blessed the seventh day and made it holyTo see this drivel posted in my face when I startup my software is entirely offensive.
Perhaps it would be better to keep things to the forum guidlines....
Drivel ?? I suppose you also consider the first creation account in Gen 1 as drivel since that is the entire point of the narrative -- man keeps the seventh day because it is part of the creation order, i.e. God did it.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Nathan Barnes said:
Hmmm I wonder if a random posting on the home page from resources in Logos that questions the virgin birth of Messiah would create any user feedback.
and if it did?
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Nathan Barnes said:
I was verbally abusing (drivel=abuse?) a theologically biased random content generator (computer).
I'd be interested to know how something can be both random and biased.
Nathan Barnes said:I simply made a SUGGESTION that a theologically biased content generator be held to the same standards as users here on the forum.
That's a fascinating suggestion. You want a random content generator to be held to the same standards as sentient responsible human beings. Moreover, you want a program designed to facilitate theological study to maintain the same standards as a forum designed for discussion about Logos software. Perhaps we could do a deal? You allow hundreds of thousands of Logos users to post their messages on your computer, and then we'll petition Logos to hold your random content generator to theological account.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Nathan Barnes said:
Ha ha...I was not verbally abusing another forum user, or going on a personal crusade. I was verbally abusing (drivel=abuse?) a theologically biased random content generator (computer). I made no theological assertions, I simply made a SUGGESTION that a theologically biased content generator be held to the same standards as users here on the forum.
Hmmm I wonder if a random posting on the home page from resources in Logos that questions the virgin birth of Messiah would create any user feedback. Or...how about say... a random posting on Lev 18:22 and homosexuality. So as long as the CLOUD (its alive! its alive!)
believes that it is ok to discuss the seventh day Sabbath.... equal weights and measures folks.Any theological bias does not reside in the software, it resides in the resources in the software. Nathan, you consented to that information being on your computer when you purchased and installed it. Why take potential offense when you see it? It is absurd to the nth degree to expect and excerpt from one of the books in your library to be without any theological bias.
Perhaps there would be an occasion when an excerpt makes a theological point you disagree with (or is controversial). In this case I recommend opening the book and reading for some context, perhaps the excerpt was too limited. It would appropriate to come to the forums, post the quote and ask for recommendations to evaluate the claim. Many of the people who have dialogued with you on this issue would chime in with scripture references to study, potential search terms to dig into your library, and other books you might buy in that study.
Allow me to quote the relevant forum guidelines
- Please keep your discussions focused on Logos Bible Software: our
software, products, websites, company, tools, etc. - Please do not discuss or debate biblical, theological, or other
controversial topics. Use one of the many web forums intended for these
kinds of discussions.
The point is not to avoid any and all statements that have theological values attached to them but to use the forums for the purpose they were created, to discuss Logos (the company and the program). It is unavoidable to mention theological themes but the implication of those themes and the conflict that can arise from people who hold very different beliefs. So just like the family that avoids political discussions over Thanksgiving dinner, the community of the Logos forums tries to avoid theological discussion because they have gone in some pretty ugly directions in the past.
Logos 4 was designed for Bible study. This task normally results in arriving at a position others would disagree with, often strenuously [:)]. Logos is designed to present the scriptural evidence and human commentary to help you in that process. These forums are not. Equal Measures indeed. A dry measuring cup and wet measuring cup for whether the item is dry or wet.
Prov. 15:23
0 - Please keep your discussions focused on Logos Bible Software: our
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I appears to me that the OP has an agenda and several Logos Users have been sucked into his trap. From the exchanges is seems that he is merely seeking to stir up controversy, not engage in a serious discussion.
We need 4.0e Beta so people will have something to occupy their minds rather than this silly season.
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Jack Caviness said:
We need 4.0e Beta so people will have something to occupy their minds rather than this silly season.
Agreed. This is all Logos' fault for not giving us our beta earlier.
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Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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steve clark said:
mmmm...seems to be an addiction to L4 betas. Wonder what will happen when L4's beta nears completion?
Don't you EVER say that! [:@]
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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steve clark said:
Wonder what will happen when L4's beta nears completion?
We have user voice to make sure that doesn't happen in our lifetimes.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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steve clark said:
mmmm...seems to be an addiction to L4 betas. Wonder what will happen when L4's beta nears completion?
Its no more an addiction then food. Everyone eats but not everyone is addicted. Why? Because eating is a necessity of life. So are betas. They are necessary, nah, essential to life. How could you call that an addiction?
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steve clark said:
lol, isn't denial one of the steps...lol
In the words of Bob..."Give me Give me Give me, I need! I need!"
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steve clark said:
mmmm...seems to be an addiction to L4 betas. Wonder what will happen when L4's beta nears completion?
Perhaps we should institute a 12 step program. [;)]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
Perhaps we should institute a 12 step program.
OK. Step 1. Give us Beta...you can decide the rest of the steps.
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Possibly Logos
Bible Software needs a USR_Theo_Priority variable the homepage will reference.Next, all resources
would need to be tagged with theological implication tagging for each resource.
Users will
need to take a 55,000 line survey to address where they stand on various doctrines.
It would be like an e-harmony
thing. Then potentially that
USR_Theo_Priority could filter which 'other' users in the Logos community forums
you see posts from.It would be
nice to have a utility that scrubbed your church membership list against your
USR_Theo_Priority and grouped/assigned service times for likeminded fellowship.
The possibilities are almost endless.Active RFID
tagging could direct us to non offensive areas of a restaurant based on our
likes/dislikes or alert us to specific beliefs of people such as Calvinist or Armenian,
an audible beep would alert us to keep our distance.For example my
high level profile would be:Chri
(Christian)Tri(Trinitarian)
Ev (Evangelical)
BA (Baptist)
SB (Southern
Baptist)HV (High View
of Scripture)VPI (Verbal Plenary
Inspiration)NSK (non
Sabbath Keeping)Disp
(Dispensational)Cmp
(Complementarian)Refmd
(Reformed)TULP (TULIP)
John Weathersby
Harrisburg, PA.
www.transcendchurch.org
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Philip Spitzer said:
OK. Step 1. Give us Beta...you can decide the rest of the steps.
my next guess is that Step 2 is: refer to Step 1
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Instead of Artificial Intelligence, I prefer to continue to rely on Divine Intelligence instructing my Natural Dullness (Ps 32:8, John 16:13a)
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steve clark said:
my next guess is that Step 2 is: refer to Step 1
I'm not seeing the problem here.... [:D]
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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