Alternate to UserVoice -- vote for your favorite tasks!

Someone showed me an alternate voting/prioritizing system; I've pre-loaded it with many of the http://logos.uservoice.com topics to see if this alternate ranking system will have similar results, or if we get different data when asking you to choose from paired ideas instead of allocating votes.

Feel free to add new ideas/priorities!

http://www.allourideas.org/logos

-- Bob

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Comments

Terry Poperszky

Interesting concept. It should help prioritize the requests.

Floyd Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/151852#Comment_151852

I like it - it forces us to really compare all the ideas, rather than just picking four five favorites.

Rich DeRuiter

Someone showed me an alternate voting/prioritizing system; I've pre-loaded it with many of the http://logos.uservoice.com topics to see if this alternate ranking system will have similar results, or if we get different data when asking you to choose from paired ideas instead of allocating votes.

Feel free to add new ideas/priorities!

http://www.allourideas.org/logos

-- Bob

Interesting idea, but it got tedious after casting the first 50 votes.

But I do like that we can say that we don't like certain ideas (when two things we don't like are shown and we 'can't decide').

Floyd Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/151856#Comment_151856

Interesting idea, but it got tedious after casting the first 50 votes.

True - but I can come back later when I want to spend more time with rating the various ideas presented.

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/151858#Comment_151858

That worked just fine....it caused me to think about my priorities....

David Paul

I expected it to end at some point...then I realized it would when I would. [8-)]

I added a couple of ideas too...the "disappearing" pop-ups have to go! It's almost as if the coders are yanking our chains: "bet you can't read all 50 words of this preview pop-up in 3 seconds!"

Ken Shawver

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/151866#Comment_151866

Concept really made you think about what is a priority to me. Nice idea.

Kevin Becker

I like this feedback tool.

I don't like the L4 suggestions intermingled with iPhone/Pad suggestions because I don't own one so I can't intelligently comment on what features should be on that team's to-do list. I suggest a separate account to track these (I would add it to All Our Ideas but I'm afraid it wouldn't get many votes [;)])

Terry Poperszky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/151876#Comment_151876

I don't like the L4 suggestions intermingled with iPhone/Pad suggestions because I don't own one so I can't intelligently comment on what features should be on that team's to-do list

Let me help you Kevin, simply choose all features related to the iPhone/iPad and you can't go wrong. [;)]

Floyd Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/151877#Comment_151877

And, speaking for one that owns neither, I simply vote against all of these. I want LOGOS to build those features that will help me do my work - spending time on other environments seems to defeat that process.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/151876#Comment_151876

I like this feedback tool.

I don't like the L4 suggestions intermingled with iPhone/Pad suggestions because I don't own one so I can't intelligently comment on what features should be on that team's to-do list. I suggest a separate account to track these (I would add it to All Our Ideas but I'm afraid it wouldn't get many votes )

I always selected something other than iPhone/Pad, etc. And when I didn't have a choice, I selected can't make up my mind, chose "Other" and included "would not use either feature."

At first I thought I might answer based on what others might want to. But then I realized that doing so wouldn't give Logos a fair picture of who would actually use the features they'd want to develop. So I decided that myopia is the best policy here.

I used the 'can't decide' button when faced with deciding between any two features I wouldn't, or don't plan to use (I don't do sentence diagrams, e.g.).

David Gullick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/151885#Comment_151885

Someone will be needed to go through and remove duplicate suggestions - already there are four suggestions for PBB, and two or three for pop-ups not disappearing

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/151965#Comment_151965

Someone will be needed to go through and remove duplicate suggestions - already there are four suggestions for PBB, and two or three for pop-ups not disappearing

The company that I have seen use the voting system very effectively actually enters the suggestions themselves so that multiple features are split apart, duplicates are resolved and product lines kept separate.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/151997#Comment_151997

The problem with having two such places for users to rank features is that many people will only use one or the other of them. It feels redundant and a waste of time to register our preferences in both places. Thus you won't get a truly representative sampling on either site. I suggest that after a brief experimental period with AllOurIdeas, you decide whether to go with that model or not, and axe whichever one you've decided not to keep up with. Otherwise you'll end up with confused users not realizing that one has been deprecated, finding out after the fact that the time they spent giving their preferences on it was a waste. We've alread got a proliferation of too many ways to give our feedback to Logos on bugs and resource requests. (email, Forum, wiki, UserVoice). And people are already confused about which is most effective. I don't really think we needed yet another, even though the interface on this one is cool. It doesn't allow for comments, though, so it's rather limited, but it does force a quick decision about which features are more important to us. At some point, Logos needs to make its own decisions about what features to implement next (taking into account user feedback). If it becomes entirely a democracy, nothing will ever get finished.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/151997#Comment_151997

The company that I have seen use the voting system very effectively actually enters the suggestions themselves so that multiple features are split apart, duplicates are resolved and product lines kept separate.

Get PBB working and PBB made things more difficult as it extended the possible permutations. It was fun for a while but I got to decide TWICE on PBB vs. PBB.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152012#Comment_152012

We've alread got a proliferation of too many ways to give our feedback to Logos on bugs and resource requests. (email, Forum, wiki, UserVoice). And people are already confused about which is most effective.

I've always felt the Suggestions forum (from Libronix era on) was great for user debate rather than a tool for Logos to glean ideas. The same ideas would cycle and another debate(?) would begin. Logos would throw in an encouraging remark every so often and the cycle would start over again.

So anything with some method, some science, some statistical gathering has to be preferable (particularly as support & Libronix statistics weren't reliable for assessing user wants[:P]).

UserVoice for me is a disaster, although I tried to use my available(?) votes effectively. If either/both system (AllOurIdeas, UserVoice) proves useful to Logos then I don't mind the little time I've spent on them.

MJ. Smith

Someone showed me an alternate voting/prioritizing system; I've pre-loaded it with many of the http://logos.uservoice.com topics to see if this alternate ranking system will have similar results, or if we get different data when asking you to choose from paired ideas instead of allocating votes.

I think this approach has merit. I see one drawback - the lack of a search before an idea is added. When I logged on the PBB was already listed 7 times.

JimTowler

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152019#Comment_152019

I've always felt the Suggestions forum (from Libronix era on) was great for user debate rather than a tool for Logos to glean ideas. The same ideas would cycle and another debate(?) would begin. Logos would throw in an encouraging remark every so often and the cycle would start over again.

I strongly dislike UserVoice, and dont look there, and don't plan to use it unless forced.

I am about to go see the new one, but from the posts here already, its got the same broken concepts.

I like the current feedback in the Logos forums, and maybe more use of Suggestions.

A single post in the forums, with maybe a graphic mockup, a link to some website with a related idea, a link to resource(s) in Logos4 or the store will always win over a bunch of For or No votes somewhere.

Please don't make it hard for someone to offer really great ideas!

(Some of those really great ideas are now in the current product. I expect some of them would not be there, without the forums and feedback.)

Kevin Becker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/151876#Comment_151876

I like this feedback tool.

Can I change my mind? [:)]

I posted this before there were a half a dozen PBB suggestions. The main problem with this site and UserVoice is that users aren't interested in seeing if someone else has made the suggestion before them. We don't tend to take the time to figure out if we are duplicating the suggestion of others and that gums up the system. A system like this one is most effective if someone at Logos is in charge of the what options are put to us for our "vote."

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/151856#Comment_151856

it got tedious after casting the first 50 votes.

HOW long does this thing go on! I got tired after 151 votes, and allourideas had not even broken a sweat.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152034#Comment_152034

A system like this one is most effective if someone at Logos is in charge of the what options are put to us for our "vote."

Agreed.

toughski

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152066#Comment_152066

I like the new site (allourideas) better than uservoice. The only problem I see with it (which already surfaced) is that it allows votes to be diluted between several identical ideas. PBB is an example. If a choice comes PBB vs. iPhone something-something, I would always vote for PBB, but which of the several PBBs am I voting for? It could be different PBBs. So, instead of one PBB idea getting 80%, there could be PBB with 23%, another PBB with 18%, yet another with 1%...

What about a "moderated" idea submission method - someone at Logos or a volunteer would keep track of ideas submitted and only allow dis-similar ideas to be voted on. Otherwise I see this as an inherently flawed system

Ron

I love it, but I agree with the comments that it needs to be managed in some way by Logos to avoid having the same idea on there multiple times which likely skews the results. Great concept though and I think (though I could be wrong) that it is not as easily abused as UserVoice is (due to anonymous voting).

Ron

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/151881#Comment_151881

And, speaking for one that owns neither, I simply vote against all of these. I want LOGOS to build those features that will help me do my work - spending time on other environments seems to defeat that process.

The only flaw with that thinking is that the iPhone/iPad app has a dedicated developer...so spending time on that environment doesn't take time away from the environment(s) that you do care about [;)]

TCBlack

Someone showed me an alternate voting/prioritizing system; I've pre-loaded it with many of the http://logos.uservoice.com topics to see if this alternate ranking system will have similar results, or if we get different data when asking you to choose from paired ideas instead of allocating votes.

Tedious, at least for the moment. I started clicking and got bored because I was confronted with multiple PBB suggestions among other items that seemed to be unevenly paired. I have to agree with Kevin.

The main problem with this site and UserVoice is that users aren't interested in seeing if someone else has made the suggestion before them. We don't tend to take the time to figure out if we are duplicating the suggestion of others and that gums up the system. A system like this one is most effective if someone at Logos is in charge of the what options are put to us for our "vote."

Will I use this, sure - but only when I find time that I need to kill.

Overall though, I'd rather see a list of all (currently 76) priorities and then drag and drop them in order.

Ron

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152103#Comment_152103

Another issue that needs to be addressed is to remove items that are already well underway (Printing, Sentence Diagramming, maybe even PBB?) and therefore don't need further "prioritization", as well as items that are already finished (collapsible books in search). If this is done along with the previously mentioned duplicate ideas problem, I can see this being a valid feedback method.

Bob Pritchett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152012#Comment_152012

At some point, Logos needs to make its own decisions about what features to implement next (taking into account user feedback). If it becomes entirely a democracy, nothing will ever get finished.

Don't worry. It's not a democracy. :-)

This new system itself is an experiment, and it lacks some of the nice things UserVoice has (auto-suggesting similar topics when you try to create a new one, comments, status, etc.) but it also seems to expose more subtlety in the ranking than UserVoice.

We'll give it a little time, and then probably consolidate on one.

Ron

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152120#Comment_152120

Two big [Y] [Y] for responding quickly and removing all the duplicate PBB entries!

Edwin Bowden

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152120#Comment_152120

At some point, Logos needs to make its own decisions about what features to implement next (taking into account user feedback). If it becomes entirely a democracy, nothing will ever get finished.

Don't worry. It's not a democracy. :-)

There are benefits to a benevolent dictatorship. [:)]

BillS

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152036#Comment_152036

it got tedious after casting the first 50 votes.

HOW long does this thing go on! I got tired after 151 votes, and allourideas had not even broken a sweat.

[Y] Same here...

toughski

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152178#Comment_152178

What about a separate allourideas page for resource suggestions?

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152036#Comment_152036

HOW long does this thing go on! I got tired after 151 votes, and allourideas had not even broken a sweat.

Mathematically one should compare 5,112 pairs (assuming no math whiz proves me wrong and no additional topics are added)

Actually, I made an assumption so that one can argue my math is wrong ... but the point is the same.

Praiser

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152178#Comment_152178

it got tedious after casting the first 50 votes.

HOW long does this thing go on! I got tired after 151 votes, and allourideas had not even broken a sweat.

Same here...

Sorry to say that I didn't give up sooner [:^)][:$] and actually went to 818 votes (the computer won). I don't believe there is an end that any of us will ever have the ability to see.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/151868#Comment_151868

I added a couple of ideas too...the "disappearing" pop-ups have to go! It's almost as if the coders are yanking our chains: "bet you can't read all 50 words of this preview pop-up in 3 seconds!"

Where do you have pop-ups that disappear? I don't get this one.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152120#Comment_152120

This new system itself is an experiment, and it lacks some of the nice things UserVoice has (auto-suggesting similar topics when you try to create a new one, comments, status, etc.) but it also seems to expose more subtlety in the ranking than UserVoice.

We'll give it a little time, and then probably consolidate on one.

At first, I thought this had some promise, now I'm not so sure.

I find it frustrating that even if I select "I don't like either idea" those ideas keep popping up as options. If there's a way to prevent the items I choose to dislike ("I Can't Decide" > "I don't like either idea") from popping up again, it would be a less frustrating experience.

Also, some of the ideas there are impossibly vague (e.g. Improve community pricing, or improve library.logos.com; improve how? or "PBB" is that a request to read PBB's in L4, or a request to prioritize the PBB publisher, or to expedite either or both of these functions which are already in the works?). And others are difficult to understand (what does "Full featured print functions" really mean, and how does it differ from what's coming out in 4.1 beta?). But there's no way to expand the entry to find out what is actually meant.

Finally, it seems that every time I go to the voting page, I start over, answering the same questions over and over again. Is that the case, or is the site keeping track of what I've already answered, and is asking me to compare different pairs each time?

Thanks for listening.

(I think I'll go find some flash game somewhere that will let me blow up some evil villains.)

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152303#Comment_152303

I think I'll go find some flash game somewhere that will let me blow up some evil villains

Phil? Thomas? Robert?

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152289#Comment_152289

I added a couple of ideas too...the "disappearing" pop-ups have to go! It's almost as if the coders are yanking our chains: "bet you can't read all 50 words of this preview pop-up in 3 seconds!"

Where do you have pop-ups that disappear? I don't get this one.

Well, Richard, they may have already fixed the problem in many cases...some of the places where I used to have this problem now appear to "stay put" when the cursor is over the link. Since this is just one of many things that bug me about L4, I really don't use it that much. If they have fixed this, then great. But if you want to see an example of what I'm talking about, click on "Biblical places"...then when the window opens up place your cursor over one of the reduced preview icons at the bottom. It will expand into a pop-up...for a couple of seconds...then it just disappears. This bit of annoyance was happening with many other kinds of pop-ups. I'm glad that you have brought it to my attention that some improvement appears to have taken place.

I'm not completely certain that all of the examples of this are fixed though...I will have to use it a bit more and see if I find any other examples. A few months back I literally had to move my cursor off a link and then back over it again about a dozen times in order to read the whole pop-up preview. Annoying. [:@]

...but, to end on a positive note, I'm glad some of this seem to have been resolved. [Y]

Jacob Hantla

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/151875#Comment_151875

This seems like a very useful and probably more accurate method of evaluating user preferences

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152373#Comment_152373

But if you want to see an example of what I'm talking about, click on "Biblical places"...then when the window opens up place your cursor over one of the reduced preview icons at the bottom. It will expand into a pop-up...for a couple of seconds...then it just disappears.

Hadn't noticed this before,but you're right about the preview icons in Biblical People/Places/Things. I don't see it elsewhere, and don't remember it being a problem. Could be I'm just a fast reader. [;)]

JimTowler

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152383#Comment_152383

"Do you want a 2nd serving of Ice Cream, OR for your workmate to be saved?"

I want both, and in different ways, and each is more on my mind at different times.

The new voting thing asks this kind of question, and its impossible to give the kind of answers that carry the correct meaning.

(I saw there was 73 questions in the system, and looped thru and answered 82 or so. I really don't imagine returning every week or two, and answering 100-200 such questions all the time.)

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152022#Comment_152022

When I logged on the PBB was already listed 7 times.

Someone seems to have removed the duplicate PBB entries. It's only listed once now.

Jacob Hantla

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152394#Comment_152394

I actually think this has merit to it in a different way that uservoice or the forums. It makes you recognize Logos' limited manpower and really think that to have one item might mean not having (or waiting on having another). It sure seems to ask me some suggetsions much mroe often than others. I've seen some 10 times or more and after >100 votes I still get ones that I've never seen before.

Jacob Hantla

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152410#Comment_152410

It is interesting that the top items seem to correspond to the top items on user voice.

Maybe now its time for the smart flash card program

Ron

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152394#Comment_152394

"Do you want a 2nd serving of Ice Cream, OR for your workmate to be saved?"

I want both, and in different ways, and each is more on my mind at different times.

The new voting thing asks this kind of question, and its impossible to give the kind of answers that carry the correct meaning.

(I saw there was 73 questions in the system, and looped thru and answered 82 or so. I really don't imagine returning every week or two, and answering 100-200 such questions all the time.)

It makes you think hard about the order of your priorities...and if you come to one that you truly can't choose between, then pick "I can't decide" and give "I like both ideas" for the reason.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152425#Comment_152425

What I like about this approach is that when the top few items are complete, the priorities of lower items will automatically adjust. I think of the "or" in a different sense: it is not asking me if I want them, its asking which one I'd rather have first.

toughski

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152430#Comment_152430

I think of the "or" in a different sense: it is not asking me if I want them, its asking which one I'd rather have first.

Exactly! In other words, if you can't have both at the same time, which would you choose to be implemented sooner.

I like this system.

Floyd Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152660#Comment_152660

...and you have options to choose "both" or "neither"

Jacob Hantla

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152394#Comment_152394

"Do you want a 2nd serving of Ice Cream, OR for your workmate to be saved?"

I want both, and in different ways, and each is more on my mind at different times.

Which one would you prefer if you could only have 1?

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/152394#Comment_152394

I really don't imagine returning every week or two, and answering 100-200 such questions all the time.)

One of the nice features of this kind of prioritizing is that I can press the issue with people who share my particular biases ... and become very very quiet among others. And, at least when I took logic, the English "or" was an inclusive or not an exclusive or.

Actually, I expect that the sociology behind this approach expects that when people add a suggestion they are willing to rate a few - perhaps if they have only check and found their idea is already present.

toughski

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS CHOICE?

did somebody submit 2 identical ideas or did the system break down?