Why no Mounce Grammar or Morphology in Zondervan titles?

I am surprised that with the breakthrough deal with Zondervan two of their most helpful titles for Greek students are apparently not available.

Of course that would be:

Mounce, William D. Basics of Biblical Greek.
Mounce, William D. The Morphology of Biblical Greek.

His Greek for the Rest of Us would be helpful also.

I would add them to the Requested Resource page on the Wiki but their exclusion begs for an explanation.

Perhaps I have missed finding them in all the Zondervan stuff?

If I haven't missed these, is there a reason for their absence among the Zondervan titles?

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Keith Larson

My guess is that this first group of Zondervan titles was announced before the 3rd edition of BBG was completed (Dec. 2009) and it will be included in the second wave. Another possibility it that it was a part of one of Zondervan's old Pradis collections and Zondervan is not wanting the thunder to be stolen from the new Logos based packages when they are announced.

Dan Sheppard

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/81154#Comment_81154

My guess is that this first group of Zondervan titles was announced before the 3rd edition of BBG was completed (Dec. 2009) and it will be included in the second wave. Another possibility it that it was a part of one of Zondervan's old Pradis collections and Zondervan is not wanting the thunder to be stolen from the new Logos based packages when they are announced.

I know that the BBG is available (Kindle) and so that means the product is available in digital.

So I suspect that it is forthcoming, perhaps when Zondervan does all their stuff (at once), as opposed to doing it piecemeal.

Keith Larson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/81396#Comment_81396

My guess is that this first group of Zondervan titles was announced before the 3rd edition of BBG was completed (Dec. 2009) and it will be included in the second wave. Another possibility it that it was a part of one of Zondervan's old Pradis collections and Zondervan is not wanting the thunder to be stolen from the new Logos based packages when they are announced.

I know that the BBG is available (Kindle) and so that means the product is available in digital.

So I suspect that it is forthcoming, perhaps when Zondervan does all their stuff (at once), as opposed to doing it piecemeal.

Most newer books come to Logos in digital format, but it takes time to tag them up to the Logos standard. In addition, Zondervan may not want all their resources that Logos is currently working on to be available for download, some of their titles may be reserved for release initially in their new boxed products. Their old Greek/Hebrew collection featured the Mounce products, it only makes sense for their new one to do the same.

Russ Quinn

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/81422#Comment_81422

Most newer books come to Logos in digital format, but it takes time to tag them up to the Logos standard. In addition, Zondervan may not want all their resources that Logos is currently working on to be available for download, some of their titles may be reserved for release initially in their new boxed products. Their old Greek/Hebrew collection featured the Mounce products, it only makes sense for their new one to do the same.

Is there a new Greek/Hebrew collection that is forthcoming?

That is what i expected but have not been able to find (on Logos or Zondervan sites).

Amy Leung

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/81396#Comment_81396

I know that the BBG is available (Kindle) and so that means the product is available in digital.

I just checked with Amazon and it says "Preorder with 1-Click" and "This title will be auto-delivered to your Kindle on February 1, 2019." [:|]

I wonder what's up? A typo perhaps?

Keith Larson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/81440#Comment_81440

Is there a new Greek/Hebrew collection that is forthcoming?

That is what i expected but have not been able to find (on Logos or Zondervan sites).

This is just a guess on my part. I am sure you noticed as you were reading the Zondervan site that all indications are they are planning some type of boxed product. While it is probable that there will be revisions to the continents of their new collections, I would think they would match fairly closely their current Pradis and Accordance collections. In my mind their Greek/Hebrew collection is by far their most attractive current collection. I am sure they realize that these books + some of the new features of L4 would make a very compelling entry product to sell to Bible college and seminary students. Once they get students to purchase this collection, it will be much easier to get them to purchase other collections.

Russ Quinn

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/81503#Comment_81503

This is just a guess on my part. I am sure you noticed as you were reading the Zondervan site that all indications are they are planning some type of boxed product. While it is probable that there will be revisions to the continents of their new collections, I would think they would match fairly closely their current Pradis and Accordance collections. In my mind their Greek/Hebrew collection is by far their most attractive current collection. I am sure they realize that these books + some of the new features of L4 would make a very compelling entry product to sell to Bible college and seminary students. Once they get students to purchase this collection, it will be much easier to get them to purchase other collections.

I think you are probably right.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/81503#Comment_81503

While it is probable that there will be revisions to the continents of their new collections,

So we see a Continental Divide between Zondervan & Mounce? Or maybe just a Continental Drift?
(Sorry Keith. It segwayed so well. [;)] )

Mounce has his own website now and provides free Greek lessons to homeschoolers and other support in educating native ministers around the world. I doubt Zondervan likes to see somebody giving away potential profits. My guess is the licensing agreement on Mounce's work did not cover republishing in third party formats. And since I cannot be right all of the time, I am probably wrong just this once. [6]

Dan Sheppard -- As far as the releasing everything together: I can't imagine things being any more piecemeal than having every single title listed in Pre-Pub separately. There IS a good reason to have both an all-encompassing collection and individual titles in Pre-Pub. Many times Logos will release individual titles as they are completed without waiting on the whole collection release date.

Russ Quinn

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/81503#Comment_81503

In my mind their Greek/Hebrew collection is by far their most attractive current collection. I am sure they realize that these books + some of the new features of L4 would make a very compelling entry product to sell to Bible college and seminary students.

I sure hope they realize this!

In my opinion having Mounce's morphology integrated in L4 is the most intriguing benefit of a relationship with Zondervan.

Okay, I realize that might be a bit of an overstatement. But not much.

That volume has been one of the most helpful books I have ever read to really understanding how Greek works.

Keith Larson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/81554#Comment_81554

Mounce has his own website now and provides free Greek lessons to homeschoolers and other support in educating native ministers around the world. I doubt Zondervan likes to see somebody giving away potential profits.

I don't think there is any continental divide between Zondervan and Mounce as regards to his web site, there is just a change in the contents of the third edition vs. the second edition. The second edition included a CD with all the interactive stuff and the third edition includes links to the teknia web site. Zondervan must be OK with this our they would not have so prominently displayed it in the upper right hand cover of both the third edition text and workbook. Mounce's web site is great and I am sure Zondervan is all for it. The added bonus the teknia.com web site brings has to make BBG an even more attractive text for teachers and professors. I am going to use it next year when I start teaching my homeschooled highschooler Greek for this very reason.

Keith Larson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/81587#Comment_81587

That volume has been one of the most helpful books I have ever read to really understanding how Greek works.

I agree 100%.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/81588#Comment_81588

Zondervan must be OK with this our they would not have so prominently displayed it in the upper right hand cover of both the third edition text and workbook

I didn't know they did that. I guess I was wrong about them (Like I said I would be "And since I cannot be right all of the time, I am probably wrong just this once.") But saying that makes me right, again...[:)] Now I can post another 900+ bold statements without worry.

I am going to use it next year when I start teaching my homeschooled highschooler Greek for this very reason.

I found it last year and am very impressed with the website. Mounce is continuing his legacy of excellence.

Dan Sheppard

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/81453#Comment_81453

I just checked with Amazon and it says "Preorder with 1-Click" and "This title will be auto-delivered to your Kindle on February 1, 2019."

I wonder what's up? A typo perhaps?

I LOVE when they do that!

Actually, I have occasionally found an error in their dates, for some reason.

I am looking right now at my Kindle and it shows "Basics of Biblical Greek" grammar, William D Mouncy, Second edition.

But you are right, in that when I check the Amazon site, MY QUERY brought only this:

Mounce's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, but the photo is of Zondervan Handbook to the Bible!!!!!

Amy Leung

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/81685#Comment_81685

Good for you, you got it in the small window that it was available! Actually I have it in my Kindle too - I scanned the whole book into PDF to be able to carry it with me, however PDF rendering is very slow and non-searchable and hard to navigate on the Kindle, so I'm really looking forward to the Kindle edition.

Looks like I've to wait till Feb 1, 2019 to have the Mounce on the Kindle (hopefully earlier with Logos [;)]).

John Feet

Well the published the Grammar but as of Aug 18th, 2010 they massacred the greek font on the kindle so badly I would not buy it. The publishers need to fix this immediately and reissue to buyers. There are just too many font errors. The greek font did not make it over very well in the conversion to the Kindle and it is just a mess.

Russ Quinn

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/162557#Comment_162557

New Zondervan bundles but still no hint of the most helpful Zondervan titles for the study of the Greek New Testament?!?

So much potential for Mounce's Morphology to be linked in the Logos library . . .

Robert Peters

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/192257#Comment_192257

Ya this doesn't make any sense it is in accordance and in Olive Tree!

Matt Hamrick

I agree 100 percent that it should be available in Logos. As it is, I am taking Greek this term for my program. Yes, we are using all Mounce products.. BBG, workbook, Get an A sheet.. greek cards, his audio cd.. and on top of it all we have to join Mounce's website and watch his lectures. Be nice to have all that stuff tagged to my bible software.

Brother Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271380#Comment_271380

I agree 100 percent that it should be available in Logos. As it is, I am taking Greek this term for my program. Yes, we are using all Mounce products.. BBG, workbook, Get an A sheet.. greek cards, his audio cd.. and on top of it all we have to join Mounce's website and watch his lectures. Be nice to have all that stuff tagged to my bible software.

As a quick aside, his website ROCKS!

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271381#Comment_271381

As a quick aside, his website ROCKS!

It would have been nice if you had given the web address [:)] Yes, Mounce's site is very good.

http://www.biblicaltraining.org/

Brother Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271398#Comment_271398

It would have been nice if you had given the web address Yes, Mounce's site is very good.

http://www.biblicaltraining.org/

Actually I was thinking about http://www.teknia.com/ where you can actually get a year's subscription to Mounce's online lectures/classes/material for arounf $90 a year. Lessee, go to seminary and pay a few thousand to hear someone teach Mounce's stuff, or pay $90 to hear Mounce teach his own stuff. Then play it again. And again. Yeah, good stuff for the Greek Geeks.

Mark Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271402#Comment_271402

No doubt that Mounce himself is better teaching himself. However, as one who taught Greek at the undergraduate level there are certain things that being in classroom with an instructor helps with that is not there with videos. Also, the little item of academic credit on a trasnscript is worth something.

Brother Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271404#Comment_271404

No doubt that Mounce himself is better teaching himself. However, as one who taught Greek at the undergraduate level there are certain things that being in classroom with an instructor helps with that is not there with videos. Also, the little item of academic credit on a trasnscript is worth something.

A fair point! Now, speaking as a 55 year old disabled retiree who is unlikely to have the resources or physical ability to attend a classroom OR need credentials that a trascript might provide, my only point is that Monce's site represents a significant value... at least to me [:)] your mileage may, of course, vary.

Matt Hamrick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271402#Comment_271402

Lessee, go to seminary and pay a few thousand to hear someone teach Mounce's stuff, or pay $90 to hear Mounce teach his own stuff. Then play it again. And again. Yeah, good stuff for the Greek Geeks.

Yep.. it's about $280 per credit hour for me to take that Greek class.. then the books, cards, cd.. and we have to join teknia.com and pay for Mounce's lectures to watch them. Currently, what we need costs $149 on Mounce's site, but sometime in the future my Greek Professor is going to give us a code for an academic discount. Still.. if I wanted Mounce to teach me.. I would seek him out and take his Greek class. Well, no worries.. it is what it is.

Matt

Chad M. Foster

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/271464#Comment_271464

I hate to resurrect an old post but I was wondering if we could get any information about potential Greek/Hebrew collections or even if that is one the horizon. We have the new huge pre-pub with Zondervan and still none of the language resources. I would love to have the Morphology of Biblical Greek to use in the Greek class that I am serving as a TA for. This is the sort of book that begs to be made available in Logos. To be able to click on a word and hop right into how the morphology works would be amazing.

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/81588#Comment_81588

Mounce's website, training & the third edition of his grammar is strongly tied with another bible software package that is available solely on the MAC...Maybe Mounce and the other company have an accord.... you can buy access to his training videos, reverse interlinear, dictionary, grammar etc as part of a package from them.