How do we consider our terms of freedom?

I think the
forum is international, as we have discovered in the fhread “http://community.logos.com/forums/t/20083.aspx?PageIndex=10“ there are participants from all
over theworld.What is normal for somebody is not normal for others .I enjoy the
forum ,but as much as enjoy it there is
something which I have become offended
,sorry to say that. How do we consider our terms of freedom? I think we should
be able to view it as well from another corner. If we see the freedom based on our
views, I think we are missing the point. I say this with great humility and
apologize as well it it seems to offend anybody.

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Comments

Kevin Becker

Tes,

It's true that this forum is a pretty diverse place. In such a mix of people it's easy to say something potentially offensive to another. I think that if we all act respectfully we will allow others to see that even if we say something they don't like it can become a chance to increase our cross-cultural understanding. Thus in acting as well as we know how and apologizing and explaining when we accidentally offend I think we can all act with clear consciences.

Jack Caviness

there is
something which I have become offended
,sorry to say that.

If someone posts material that offends me, I first try to ignore it. If that does not work, I type a stinging rebuke which I then delete without posting. Sometimes, I have to go back and delete because I posted in haste.

However, if the offense is more than you can ignore, post a reply that explains why you were offended as unemotionally as possible. When we allow our emotions to control what we say, arguments begin which can quickly get out of control. If I personally have offended you, I apologize and hope you realize that it was through ignorance.

After all, "we have become friends through these forums". [8-|]

Tes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/165105#Comment_165105

If I personally have offended you, I apologize and hope you realize that it was through ignorance.

Absolutly not sir,you are one of the best whom I love to see and love to interact with in the forum,But simply I am saying, no tears in my eyes,but I am crying deep in my heart .If it were on the street I would turn it my back.I tried to ignore it ,but today I could not bear it.I have thought simply to type this.

Kevin Becker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/165111#Comment_165111

I am saying, no tears in my eyes,but I am crying deep in my heart .If it were on the street I would turn it my back.I tried to ignore it ,but today I could not bear it.I have thought simply to type this.

If the offense is so great you can click on the person's name and scroll to the bottom of the page and leave a comment on that person's profile. Explain what post offended you and why. It's not as private as email but most people won't visit the profile and he or she can delete it after. I know if I have offended someone I would want to know so that I can apologize and try to do better in the future.

Tes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/165365#Comment_165365

I am saying, no tears in my eyes,but I am crying deep in my heart .If it were on the street I would turn it my back.I tried to ignore it ,but today I could not bear it.I have thought simply to type this.

If the offense is so great you can click on the person's name and scroll to the bottom of the page and leave a comment on that person's profile. Explain what post offended you and why. It's not as private as email but most people won't visit the profile and he or she can delete it after. I know if I have offended someone I would want to know so that I can apologize and try to do better in the future.

Hi Kevin, thank you
for your concern as it is your habit to help. Well, the issue is not in the
thread °we have become friends through the forum° and it was not personally
against me directed,. It would have been a great shame for me, if it would have
been seen by some friends I have told the good part of the forum. It seems
normal to the one who has done it, but for me it is abnormal, .It was in a
wrong place. Since it is obvious, I am sure nothing is going to be done apart
defending it. I have just written this thread, for the sake of awareness, to remind
to think first, how others might view it, before offending others.

Simon’s Brother

I think the
forum is international, as we have discovered in the fhread “http://community.logos.com/forums/t/20083.aspx?PageIndex=10“ there are participants from all
over theworld.What is normal for somebody is not normal for others .I enjoy the
forum ,but as much as enjoy it there is
something which I have become offended
,sorry to say that. How do we consider our terms of freedom? I think we should
be able to view it as well from another corner. If we see the freedom based on our
views, I think we are missing the point. I say this with great humility and
apologize as well it it seems to offend anybody.

Tes you are very correct we need to carefully consider the terms of our freedom. Simply because something is permissible does not make it the appropriate in all instances. We do need to ensure we don't cause offense to our brother's and sisters in Christ or cause them to stumble. If I have somehow caused offence to you or anyone else or somehow validated that which has caused offence the I offer my apology for doing so.

While there is room for personality in the forums, there are some aspects we need to think carefully about before displaying in such a public forum for the very reasons you mention. I was just listening to something yesterday that challenged me. The speaker said that while the church has been through a reformation of creed (i.e. belief), it might be time we went through a reformation of deed (i.e. what we do and say - our actions). We are to live in this world but not to be of it, but at the same time working out what our freedom in Christ means we sometimes blur the lines. In our fallen state this is a problem inherent to all humanity, we just display the problem in different ways.

Tes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/165430#Comment_165430

If I have somehow caused offence to you or anyone else or somehow validated that which has caused offence the I offer my apology for doing so

No,Andrew,there is nothing wrong in you.I am glad about you.You are helping me and others as well.It is sad perhaps it might be seen funny ,but for me it is immoral.I belive not for the obvious bad ,even we have to pay attention also for the good things ,if it offends others ,as Paul would not eat meat.But what I have seen it ,is simply shameful.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/165452#Comment_165452

Tes, as someone who has offended you unintentionally in the past, I think it is easier to accidentally offend in an online setting, since people tend to write quickly and post even more quickly what they wrote, without taking much time to think about how it will come across to others. Many of us have had the experience of doing this in emails we've regretted later. It's an unfortunate consequence of the increased speed of technology. We need to s-l-o-w d-o-w-n and think before we act. Even more so in a place like this forum, where people from all different cultures will be watching us. However, ultimately our aim must be to do and say what is pleasing in God's eyes not just in other people's eyes. There are times when a few people are offended by something that is normal for a greater number of people. If we are aware of the thing which causes offense to those few, yes, we should avoid it in their presence. But there is such a wide area of interpretation here. For example, should the believers who feel a freedom to drink wine always abstain when others who don't think that Christians should ever drink wine might find out about it? In a small setting over dinner at someone's home, yes of course. But in a restaurant, when you don't know whether a brother or sister from a more restrictive denomination might be at the next table? I probably wouldn't worry about it in that case. I think we should always try not to offend, but if we unintentionally do, we should be quick to apologize. Also, when possible, the offended person should try to forgive and assume that the offense was not intended. And if offense was apparently intentional, then the offended party should mention it in private to the offending party and be sure it is resolved so that it doesn't happen again and the offending person understands why this was inappropriate. And then again be willing to forgive.

Tes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/165462#Comment_165462

Tes, as someone who has offended you unintentionally in the past, I think it is easier to accidentally offend in an online setting, since people tend to write quickly and post even more quickly what they wrote, without taking much time to think about how it will come across to others. Many of us have had the experience of doing this in emails we've regretted later. It's an unfortunate consequence of the increased speed of technology. We need to s-l-o-w d-o-w-n and think before we act. Even more so in a place like this forum, where people from all different cultures will be watching us. However, ultimately our aim must be to do and say what is pleasing in God's eyes not just in other people's eyes. There are times when a few people are offended by something that is normal for a greater number of people. If we are aware of the thing which causes offense to those few, yes, we should avoid it in their presence. But there is such a wide area of interpretation here. For example, should the believers who feel a freedom to drink wine always abstain when others who don't think that Christians should ever drink wine might find out about it? In a small setting over dinner at someone's home, yes of course. But in a restaurant, when you don't know whether a brother or sister from a more restrictive denomination might be at the next table? I probably wouldn't worry about it in that case. I think we should always try not to offend, but if we unintentionally do, we should be quick to apologize. Also, when possible, the offended person should try to forgive and assume that the offense was not intended. And if offense was apparently intentional, then the offended party should mention it in private to the offending party and be sure it is resolved so that it doesn't happen again and the offending person understands why this was inappropriate. And then again be willing to forgive.

I have already said ,not intentionally against me,but I have seen what I could not bear it,in a place where I can never expect from a person I cannot expect,So my response to this is I would say ,please check your thread"Testing disregarded" Thank you

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/165588#Comment_165588

I have already said ,not intentionally against me,but I have seen what I could not bear it,in a place where I can never expect from a person I cannot expect,So my response to this is I would say ,please check your thread"Testing disregarded" Thank you

I can now guess which post of mine offended you and I am very sorry. Our senses of humor are very different in the US/Canada and Africa/Germany, two very different cultures. Another forum member emailed me and told me he thought the photo was hilarious, but he realized it was probably what you were referring to in your “How do we consider our terms of freedom” thread. I do not know what else to say other than I am so sorry that it offended you.

Milford Charles Murray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/166090#Comment_166090

I have already said ,not intentionally against me,but I have seen what I could not bear it,in a place where I can never expect from a person I cannot expect,So my response to this is I would say ,please check your thread"Testing disregarded" Thank you

I can now guess which post of mine offended you and I am very sorry. Our senses of humor are very different in the US/Canada and Africa/Germany, two very different cultures. Another forum member emailed me and told me he thought the photo was hilarious, but he realized it was probably what you were referring to in your “How do we consider our terms of freedom” thread. I do not know what else to say other than I am so sorry that it offended you.

Rosie and Tes! Peace to you and Great Joy in the Lord ...

I couldn't understand either what it was that offended you, Tes. Finally I came to the same conclusion as Rosie.

We obviously have great cultural differences. I thought it was really funny and even sent the picture to my daughter-in-law who shared it with her husband and my grandchildren, and they all thought it was funny.

Believe me, I take my Christian Faith very seriously (and Joyfully)! I bless and praise our Loving God for His Grace and Mercy to us in our Lord Jesus Christ; and I always try not to offend my brother and sister in the Faith. However, now and again, I need forgiveness from my brother and sister, something which I believe they are obliged to do because of their Faith in the Lord Jesus.

It is also imperative the we as Christian brothers and sisters try to understand and to "not take offence" where no offence is intended....

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/166104#Comment_166104

I actually heeded the advice of the thread's title and did not respond or even follow that one closely. [A]

With my 'filthy rags" of self-rigteousness, may I say Tess, Please forgive everyone who posted anything that hurt you. I have decided to do the same. I think the vast majority of Logos users and forum posters all share a concern for each other. We share a passion for the Bible and are drawn towards each other because of what we have in common. As we interact, the differences also come to light in how we talk, think, joke and reference life. Only God understands everybody. The rest of us will be called on to forgive each other, even 70x7......

This forum is a family, of sorts. Sometimes our family members hurt us deeply when they never intended to. Good of you to say something, even better to forgive! May God generously bless you.

Michael McLane

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/166134#Comment_166134

With all due respect to Tes, and all the others on this forum, the plain fact of the matter is that no one can impose on another person the duty or responsibility to not offend anyone else. It is simply an impossible task, burdensome beyond expectation, and leads to little true and passionate expression as one would be self-evaluating every word and action beyond reason. That being said, I do think it is incumbent on us as descent human beings and, foremost as Christians, to do our best to treat each other with respect and politeness.

However, being sinful human beings we both expect too much from others and not enough of ourselves. American culture, at least, seems to have engendered over the last couple of decades, this idea that we each have a right to not be offended. That simply is not possible. Forget the cultural divide separated by countries and oceans, there is cultural divide within households that causes offense. One of the wonderful aspects of the Christian community, one would hope, is that there is, or at least should be, no intention of offense. And, if offense is taken we can with love approach one another to explore a mutual understanding and awareness of personalities and personal boundaries that we should, out of respect for one another, honor.

I for one, in hast (at least that is my excuse), as Rosie expressed earlier, have posted and offended at least once and probably more in my short lived existence on these forums. And, with embarrassment and humility have apologized and asked for forgiveness when my haste and shortsightedness won the moment. But, be sure, no offense was ever or is ever intended. And, likewise, I think it should be the starting point to understand, that at least in this place, a Christian environment, that although one may be offended, that is probably not the intention of the poster. And, I for one, if having caused offense, would be honored and appreciative if I were notified of such that I may have a chance to express regret and to understand another's sensibilities that I may show deserved respect for a brother or sister.

All that said, I hope I have not offended and that this rambling post is received with that understanding.

Matthew C Jones has just said all this better than I, which makes me think that I probably should have just stayed silent. But, alas, I have not.

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/166156#Comment_166156

With all due respect to Tes, and all the others on this forum, the plain fact of the matter is that no one can impose on another person the duty or responsibility to not offend anyone else.

Michael I appreciated what you were saying and the spirit in which it was intended. Along the same I can say of everyone else's response. In Western culture in general we have become too focused on the rights of the individual. We do think we have the right to not be offended but that the same time think we have the right to offend anyone else in the name of freedom. I have learned through the school of hard knocks, called 'Life' that both rights are wrong to a large extent.

Along this pattern of thought we also within our Christian faith at times take the concepts of freedom a little too far. In the Garden Adam and Eve, also had extensive freedom within the context of recognizing that God knew what was best for them and His Word above all should be obeyed. The freedom we have in Christ also comes with a similar 'disclaimer':

Matthew 22:34–40 (ESV)

The Great Commandment

34 But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

And at the conclusion of the discussing what it looks like to be a disciple of Christ Jesus said:

Matthew 7:12 (ESV)

The Golden Rule

12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

I am as guilty as the next person of not always exercising the freedom I have in Christ within the context of these commands. While I don't have the right to place expectation upon others, God has placed an expectation upon me as to how l live my life as his Ambassador for His name.

By participating in these forums we also agree to abide by the expectations of Logos Bible Software who provide them for our usage. Their real purpose is to discuss their software and assist one another in doing so and provide feedback to Logos on the software and associated resources. Even though we are outside the scope of that mandate, in their grace up to this point had not locked down that thread. (It now is locked) These forums are to a large extent self moderated.

I write this out of concern for my brother Tes, it seems in our effort to defend out right to cultural freedom of expression we have lost sight of the fact that a Brother was offended, and was done so by a post outside the scope of what these forums are about. Even Rosie when she posted picture at issue said.

Hope it's not to risque for the Logos forum.

If we find ourselves having that thought, then its probably a good indicator this forum is not an appropriate place to post such an image. Social networking sites are probably more appropriate.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/166211#Comment_166211

Even Rosie when she posted picture at issue said.

Hope it's not to risque for the Logos forum.

If we find ourselves having that thought, then its probably a good indicator this forum is not an appropriate place to post such an image. Social networking sites are probably more appropriate.

I confess that I went too far, and I should have listened to my inner censor which made me even question whether it might not be appropriate. I sometimes am in such a hurry to contribute to things online that I don't pause enough to listen to that still small voice, which might just be God talking to me.

I apologize again, not only to Tes (already done above) but to all my other brothers and sisters on this forum who were enjoying the good fun of the silly thread before I did something that got it shut down. It was probably high time to cut it out anyway. I never intended it to be a silly thread. Others came in and made it so. It honestly was just a test post that I'd intended to delete but forgot to. But I admit that I enjoyed the silliness while it lasted, and I'm usually one of the major contributors when a thread turns silly. As an MVP I'm supposed to be more of a good example on these forums than I sometimes am. [:(]

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/166211#Comment_166211

In Western culture in general we have become too focused on the rights of the individual. We do think we have the right to not be offended but that the same time think we have the right to offend anyone else in the name of freedom. I have learned through the school of hard knocks, called 'Life' that both rights are wrong to a large extent.

Along this pattern of thought we also within our Christian faith at times take the concepts of freedom a little too far.

And I thought this was an American fault.

There I go, using American as if the US were the totality of two continents and an isthmus. [:$]

Tes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/166104#Comment_166104

I have already said ,not intentionally against me,but I have seen what I could not bear it,in a place where I can never expect from a person I cannot expect,So my response to this is I would say ,please check your thread"Testing disregarded" Thank you

I can now guess which post of mine offended you and I am very sorry. Our senses of humor are very different in the US/Canada and Africa/Germany, two very different cultures. Another forum member emailed me and told me he thought the photo was hilarious, but he realized it was probably what you were referring to in your “How do we consider our terms of freedom” thread. I do not know what else to say other than I am so sorry that it offended you.

Rosie and Tes!              Peace to you and Great Joy in the Lord ...

         I couldn't understand either what it was that offended you, Tes. Finally I came to the same conclusion as Rosie.

We obviously have great cultural differences.    I thought it was really funny and even sent the picture to my daughter-in-law who shared it with her husband and my grandchildren, and they all thought it was funny.

                Believe me, I take my Christian Faith very seriously (and Joyfully)! I bless and praise our Loving God for His Grace and Mercy to us in our Lord Jesus Christ; and I always try not to offend my brother and sister in the Faith.    However, now and again, I need forgiveness from my brother and sister, something which I believe they are obliged to do because of their Faith in the Lord Jesus.

                It is also imperative the we as Christian brothers and sisters try to understand and to "not take offence" where no offence is intended....

I couldn't understand either what it was that offended you, Tes. Finally I came to the same conclusion as Rosie.

We obviously have great cultural differences

What? Great cultural difference?Surprising ,When it comes about the Bible,the Bibel is the Guide line of Life,and everything else should be accordingly.I think I woudn't tolorate in such cases,I dont't want to use as excuse my culture or everything which makes me less than the reallity of the Truth of The Bible,I am not perfect I have my weakness,but.......

I thought it was really funny and even sent the picture to my daughter-in-law who shared it with her husband and my grandchildren, and they all thought it was funny

Is there not a better gift what some one could give as a lagacy?.For my mind cannot contain it.[

quote user="Milford Charles Murray"] Believe me, I take my Christian Faith very seriously (and Joyfully)! I bless and praise our Loving God for His Grace and Mercy to us in our Lord Jesus Christ; and I always try not to offend my brother and sister in the Faith.

It seems contrasting.Forgiving is in its place,I must forgive.It doesn't means that I haven't forgiven her.I don't want to go back to the issue.But even what you have written amazes me not less than.

Tes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/166211#Comment_166211

I write this out of concern for my brother Tes
,

Thank you Andrew for your brotherly concern,your kind words have been comferting to me,and I am glad as well,that you have made possible the Bibel to defend for the Truth.